Beginners approach to scale studies
I started on simple major 2 octave scales and appregios when I first started on the violin. Recently, my teacher assigned me to Barbara Barber's Scales for Advanced Violinist scale book, and started me on 3 octave scales beginning with G major. The weird thing is when I was studying piano, we study the major scale along with it's relative minor. But my teacher started me with G major scale, then harmonic and melodic minor and their appregios. I find this a bit strange but didn't want to question my teacher. Is this an odd approach?
She also mentioned that she will not make me suffer from the Carl Flesch scale book, but from what i've read, everybody and their mother uses this book!? I think the Barber book is complicated enough.
I'm just wondering how did you learn the scales? Do you learn all major scales first, then minor? Or you study the major along with its relative minor?
Replies (16)
Greetings,
One thing I would say is that even knowing you are the most respectful person on the planet , you are to some extent , questionning your teacher here. Aaaah,, the Internet.....
actually it sound slike you are making quite abig jump. There are basically three bog standard scale books: Hrimaly, Flesch and Galamian. In an idela world the Hrimaly would proceed the latter two but these days ther eis, in my opinion , a tendency to jump into the Flesch mushc too fast. The Barber book is a simplified version of the Galamian system but has some importnast things in and is a very fine work.
I introduce certain aspects of the Galamian system -very- early on. The first exericse in the book is a two octave scaleplayed in all postions. Each scale is played ina variety of keys to change the finger paterns and stimulate the brain. Plus, one uses a whole range of bowings, accents and rythm patterns. You would be well advised ot work on this exercise for the rets of your life. It is a scale without the complexity of shifting. Very powerful.
The second exercise is one string scales using one, two or three fingers playe din all differnet keys and with differnet bowings and fingerings. I introduce these earleir thanmost teahcers. It teaches advanced understanding of the fingerboard in a horizontal direction without getting bogged down in psoitions. It profoundly enhances posiiton work as well a steahcing virtually all aspects of basic shifting.
A complete scale initself is a very advanced exercise and I don`t recommend practicing it without first reviewing shifting, pattern practice and the like. I`d also reocmmend looking at the practice ideas In Drew Lecher`s book. You might alos conside rreadng the blogs I have have written over the years discusisng scales. Dpo a search ion this sirte for Buri`s Studio (or soemthing Pretentious like that) One called I think, `Scales from a dead f ish` is good maybe
Cheers,
Buri
I would say to follow your teacher's direction. There are different ways to learn scales, and what she is proposing seems like a reasonable one.
I start the tiny tots on scales from the very first lesson.The first objective is to play each of the open strings four times.For this its easy to select a four syllable word , I use 'cioccolato' meaning choclate and the aim is to play as smoothly as the image of the word.From there we move on to adding the first finger thus our scale becomes 000011110000.Once they can do this with a nice sound we move on to add the other 2 fingers odviously with the 2nd finger in the high position.Our scale is then a half scale on each string 0000111122223333222211110000.From this we reduce the number of repetitions for each note choosing words with the relavant syllables.When we are down to a single note its time to join the two strings together e violà the first scale.I have printed out scale books in three levels in the firts book scales are divided into finger pattern goups so they learn a mechanism.Each scale has a variety of bowing variations and the first book is major one and two octave scales in the first position only.The second level has all major and minor two octave scales , not the relative minor but scales starting from the same note.The reason for this is that I get each student to mentally reconstruct the minor before playing them so they have to work out that they lower only the third acending and also the seventh and sixth descending in the melodic etc Logically this makes more sense and dealing with e relative minor usually confuses young chilldren .The scales in the second level have the tonic note played twice the lengh of the other making it easier to count the stages of the scale. The third book is a standard three octave scale book each page presenting the major and minor scales and arpeggios starting from the same note.In this book I introduce some scales in octaves and thirds.Once they have completed all three of these books the students are ready to mopve on to Flesch and for them its like a medal of honour.Flesch can be very confusung for a beginner.
To address your question about why your teacher started you off with G major & G minor (as opposed to E minor as the relative minor is this instance), I think the answer might be quite simple.
A 3 octave G major or G minor scale on the violin is relatively easy, because by the time you get to the top you are most likely in 5th position (with an extension for the last note).
However, for E minor you'd end up in 10th position (with an extension for the last note), which is obviously more tricky.
I can see on the piano it makes more sense to practise the relative keys together from the outset, as they all present roughly the same degree of technical difficulty to each-other.
I wonder if any teachers here sometimes get their pupils to look at modal scales, the dorian and mixolydian in particular.
I started out with one octave scales, in Applebaum's classic "Scales for Strings".
I also start my students with one octave scales, although I prefer to teach Whistler's "Scales in First Position".
Most students get minor scales a bit later, after getting D, G, and C majors under control.
In the end, most any approach to scales is a good one, except avoiding learning them well. The various names & books given in this strand all have merit and drawbacks. Imo about the worst thing to do with scales is learn 'em all in two (or three) octaves and then just play them, not "do something" with them. Use scales for bowing patterns, for instance, or play them in a variety of fingerings or positions, or w/a single finger, in varying tempos & with assorted slur groupings. Sue
Some good responses here especially from Buri and Neil. (Buri, I love your sense of humour, as that is what makes the world go round!)
Neil, I quote:
"A 3 octave G major or G minor scale on the violin is relatively easy, because by the time you get to the top you are most likely in 5th position (with an extension for the last note)."
I quite agree, but try telling some of the young players I come across, many of which are Grade VIII passes in our Associated Bored exams, and I wonder why they bother with exams, or why they do them, or how they pass!!
It's interesting that I heard (whether true or not I don't know) that Heifetz, when he heard Perlmann at the time he was with Galamian as a student, was more interested in the fact that he could play any scale requested, rather than the pieces he was doing.
im lerning g major scale and whem i play a string b and c natarul i clemp the violin neck like a lopster my fingers hert sometimes. dont no what to do reilly.
My thinking follows Neil's & Buri's -
Practicing the G Major & minor scales keeps you practicing in the same neighborhood of the fingerboard.
Progression of books: Any beginner scale book, followed by Hrimaly and then Barbara Barber, Flesch or Galamian.
Frankly Barbara Barber's book was a relief to me! Previously I had my students purchase Flesch and then I would hand out info. sheets that covered Galamian's concepts. Barbara Barber's book took care of that!
For those who love visuals - Here's a set of
charts you can download. Each 3 8ve scale is plotted on a grid so you can see how they would lay out on the violin. They use the fingerings I think from Marge Pardee - a Juilliard viola teacher.
Smiles! Diane
how do i reed that chart i dont undarstand . i only have four strangs on my violin.
It looks like there are 8 strings because the scale chart represents both going up the scale and coming down.
I realize the chart needs a lot of explanation. If you start at the far upper left corner and play the notes down the first column, then go to the next column and play down that column. You'll do this for the first 4 columns. Then on the trip down the scale you'll go the reverse direction.
If you still are scratching your head you can contact me directly! Smiles! diane
Quote Trevor Jennings: I wonder if any teachers here sometimes get their pupils to look at modal scales, the dorian and mixolydian in particular.
The 7 modes are the way I do a lot of my improv. I find it a very efficient way to play all sorts of different styles and flavours of music. blues swing rock folk jazz pop (try Phyrgian minor for Heavy Metal or even a Spanish flavour)
But I don't know many violinist that play the modes, at least perhaps not to any great extent. and I don't seem to hear much about it from teachers.
My teacher has me on Flesch. I've been playing for about six months total and we started on it about two months ago. We had been (and continue) to work on the Suzuki book 1 which is all in G ma. When we started Flesch, we started in Cma, the first octave scale, arpeggios and thirds, in first position only. I'm disregarding rhythm, using full bow strokes for each note. We skip the minor keys and do a key per week using this structure. Starting in the first octave of Cma in the first position has the same finger pattern as Gma, and you can play all the suzuki tunes in Cma just by shifting down a string. This was a good bridge into the arpeggios which at first were difficult for me to hear, due to beginner's intonation and lack of musical training. But through using Cma, I started to recognize the chords and then applying them to the subsequent keys made accurate fingering easier to achieve. So now I'm on Dbma which has no open strings to play or even resonate with, and my intonation is not entirely atrocious.
2 Days ago after reading this, I went to Tulsa and got the book Whistlers 1st position beginners. I'm just learning the first page and it is do helpful. Hard work but I know it will help me. Thanks everyone for a good discussion.
Julie
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November 5, 2008 at 08:27 PM ·
My scale book is "Essentials for Strings". Each scale is grouped with its relative minor, and there are 5 exercises per group (i.e., the major scale plus thirds and arpeggio, plus that scale's relative minor scale and arpeggio).
Started out with one-octave exercises for the easier scales, and slowly progressed until I was able to do two octaves with one or two shifts and multiple flats/sharps.