Frugal parent seeks beginner child violin

November 16, 2006 at 04:25 AM · Greetings,

perhaps you should explore rental if you are concerned about the development of interest. Interest itself has a lot to do with the competency of the beginners teacher with children. Do you have somebody in mind? If so, they should be able to provide you with informtion about rental.

Cheers,

Buri

November 16, 2006 at 11:19 AM · Also, many violin shops offer 100% trade in for fractional instruments. I'm not sure how far you are from Berkeley, but Ifshin is a very reputable shop that has a rental department catering to families with growing kids. My sister has rented some very nice fractional instruments for her daughter, and on a budget. I went there with her on one occasion and was impressed with their service.

You can also buy instruments (with a trade-up clause) by mail order from reputable dealers such as Weavers and Potters in Maryland or Shar. I once auditioned a fractional from W & P-- they shipped it to us, we tried it, and shipped it back. The cost for shipping was minimal.

In my case, we ended up buying our fractionals and trading up. The issue then becomes what to do with the trade-up value if you don't find a full-size you like from that dealer. But if you chose a large dealer with a wide inventory, you will probably be okay. Otherwise, you will need to sell your 3/4 or 7/8 on consignment or privately.

November 16, 2006 at 01:48 PM · i think at that price range there isn't much of a choice because no one brand/maker stands out, and to trade up from there may not make that much of a difference.

you may want to try your luck on ebay. for 50 bucks, you may end up with a fiddle that sounds better than or the same as a 200 dollar one from a shop. probably the same violin:) if you are lucky, you may pick up a decent sounding old violin that needs cleaning and set up. good luck. been there, done that. my sympathy:)

November 16, 2006 at 05:14 PM · String House in Rochester,NY has a 100% trade-in/trade-up. They have a nice started outfit (Martello) for under $400. You could think of that as two or three years' rent for free. There are NO beginner instruments. No instrument is really good enough for a beginner, considering how difficult the early stages can be, and how crucial early success is for a child's long-term commitment. Sue

November 16, 2006 at 09:12 PM · 1. rent from a reputable shop & build up credit.

2. if you want/have to buy, try the Hoffman offered by Shar or the Klauss Mueller Prelude offered by Southwest Strings. They are both set-up properly and make a decent sound.

November 17, 2006 at 02:29 AM · Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my dilemma with such sound advice. I'll definitely apply it in my search. You've really eased my mind!

:),

Frugal Parent

November 17, 2006 at 05:38 AM · I got my son's fractional at Stringworks. Click on their "Internet Specials" and they have preowned Crescendo violin and case for $195. You do have to buy a bow for about $30.

November 17, 2006 at 03:25 PM · Just don't buy an outfit from a small music store that only has a handful of string products and a random violin set. They often overcharge for a bad product and don't know what they are doing. Go with the larger online stores. One of the only instances I feel that way about purchasing, but you really want to get it from a place that does strings as their specialty.

Sals,

JW

November 19, 2006 at 07:22 AM · I recommend very strongly against buying something cheap on ebay or from a multi-instrument store. It will sound awful and your kid will not have a fair chance. Most violin specialty stores will rent reasonably good beginner violins in fractional sizes with the option of buying or trading in for a larger violin. I'm fortunate that I live near Potter's Violin Store, which, as mentioned above, is very good and reliable. My students and their parents are fortunate that they can go to Potter's. I didn't know that Potter's will rent and ship violins. I strongly advise doing just that. They are professionals and they are reputable. You won't be disappointed. Today I saw a new student who had paid $250 for a violin which is absolutely cr*p. Even the bow and case are absolute cr*p. If you want more details, email me or contact Potter's.

November 19, 2006 at 07:38 AM · Another very good choice would be a fractional violin from the beginner violin series of Eastman Strings. You can find a dealer of these instruments on the Eastman website. This quote is from the Eastman website: "...possibly the most important instrument a musician will ever play is the first one, because it is essential that the experience is both enjoyable and rewarding. "

I also suggest that you look at the section "Violin Shops" on violinist.com.

November 19, 2006 at 01:12 PM · this reminds me of those endless shows on HGTV where the designer, given a limited amt of money, always come up a woolala look and couple dollars to spare, darn!:)

tone of the poster: I DON'T WANT TO PAY A LOT FOR THAT MUFFLER!:) want something decent, but very inexpensive, to test the water so to speak, just in case...

many of you have done it been there many times. i did it just once, so my experience MAY be misleading:)

i got the first couple violins from ebay for about 30-50 dollars, out of convenience, may be ignorance... here is a sample of how a ebay violin sounds like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84yc45l5xWM

are those ebay violins that bad? well, depends on your level of expectation and luck as a shopper. i thought it was sufficient working on 1. posture, 2. bowing, 3. basic intonation.

in the first year, imo, if you can manage to do ok with the above 3, the quality of the violin is not of great concern. Shhhh, no one can tell the difference anyway:)

you know what? violin quality may matter, but you will give your kido an incomparable, measurable fair chance by being there...

November 19, 2006 at 07:00 PM · I disagree strongly. I've taught a lot of beginning students, and I've seen and heard results. The quality of the violin makes a very big difference for a beginner. I'm not talking about $1000 quality, but there is a very big difference in sound and feel of $50, $100, and $500 violins. You can rent a $600 violin with a good bow and case for $25/month, so the initial outlay is not excessive, and the rental money is credited towards purchase. Beginners outgrow a cheap violin in about 3 months. They feel frustrated because their sound is bad and they believe that it's their fault. Then they try a better violin and bow, and they're astonished at the difference. Their self esteem shoots up. (This is quite important, obviously.) They love the sound and feel of the instrument, and they practice more and feel happier about it. Most beginning students and their parents don't realize that the quality of the bow is just as important as the quality of the violin even for a beginner. Cheap bows are heavy, poorly balanced, and difficult to control. They're difficult to maneuver and the quality of sound is bad no matter how hard the student tries. Really, any beginning student deserves a good violin and bow in order to tell whether they'll enjoy playing or not.

There are some good quality beginner violins on ebay, but you have to know how to evaluate them *before* buying. The Chinese violinmaker ZSM who sells on ebay (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZwsh519QQssPageNameZSTRKQ3aMEFSQ3aMESOI) has good quality beginner violins. We've discussed them on v.com several times, and I've played a few myself. You can usually get one for $200-$250 + shipping. There are two limitations to this approach (1) he sells only 3/4 and 4/4 violins and (2) you can't trade up to a larger size.

November 19, 2006 at 09:36 PM · I agree with Pauline. My son's teacher sold him a beginner violin that was very marginal. It was hard to tune, hard to keep in tune, and the soundpost fell if you removed the strings. It had no interior arching, so the only way to keep the soundpost up was to quickly put the bridge back on and tighten the strings. The G string was so slack, it lacked tension, and the teacher said, "oh well, beginners don't play on the G string." I'm sure this violin gets recycled among all beginners because he sold it to another beginner and I lost only $10 on the deal. I'm sure it was a Chinese Ebay special, although I put in money to upgrade the cheap no-name strings to Dominants and put in a new Wittner composite tailpiece (spending about $30 additional) to make it even semi-playable.

As soon as possible, I bought my son a 1/8 from Stringworks, a preowned Crescendo, upgraded the strings to Dominants, and put in a Wittner composite tailpiece with the 4 tuners (throwing out the Suzuki style tuners that came with the violin). Then my son's teacher was very surprised of the sound of a 1/8 violin and how well it played.

I think it does beginners a great disservice to find the cheapest, unplayable, marginal violin out there, and then say, "oh well, they don't play on the G string, or the E string." The lack of sound, or atrocious sound will discourage only the most tone-deaf. And exactly if your child has sensitive ears, is the characteristic you want to develop, but frustrating on a useless violin. You figure you spend $60/hr on lessons and then buy a violin that costs less than the lessons? And then wonder why the child is not motivated to practice. Having a good relationship with a shop/luthier means that the violin is playable, has a good sound, keeps in tune, and has a bow that does its job. This helps the child to develop basic skills and a good ear, which is hard enough even in the best of circumstances. Okay, getting off my soapbox.

November 19, 2006 at 11:20 PM · thanks for the responses pauline and clare.

one clarification: inexpensive violin is not necessarily bad, or, expensive violin is not necessarily good, especially in the price range we are talking about. also, chinese violins do not have a monopoly on ebay. there are other little old gems which i was referring to.

if you are adament about sticking to a very low budget, you may need to think out of the box to extract more value. i knew nothing about violin couple years ago except they had 4 strings. i had since bought several quality fraction violins at around 50 dollars on ebay. after use, i had sold them to shops in NYC for way more than i paid for. they probably marked up to around 1000 dollars.

value does not land on your plate. you have to look around. do not know enough about violin? well, start learning. better learn now when you can afford to make some mistakes than later when you cannot.

couple things to bear in mind. there are lots of scams on ebay. also, shops with great service do not provide free lunch.

ps, clare, a soundpost falling when changing strings is not a reflection on the quality of the violin, even though i concur with your other sentiments.

cheers!