Violin in the $5K or Less Range

You should be able to tell them exactly what you want your instrument to be like, sound like, play like. I would recommend their Euro models (I'll tell you why below). You should require approval and return shipping paid by the seller should the instrument not meet with your approval.

I have owned two Jay-Haide cellos (as well as two older cellos from the years 1960 and 1877). My second Jay-Haide is a l'Ancienne Stradivarius model that I bought from Ifshin Violins in early 2005. After I walked into the shop that day Jay Ifshin said "I have something to show you" and he picked up a cello that was on display and walked it and me back into one of their demo rooms and had me play it. It reminded me very much of a Carl Becker (well-known Chicago maker) cello I had a chance to play on at a chamber music workshop the previous summer. So we made a deal - trading in the previous model 101 Jay-Haide cello I had bought from him (for what I had paid) and some extra money. Once, in my years of giving cello and violin lessons after that a new (potential) student (almost aas old as I was) came for a lesson and he had one of the (then) new Euro Jay-Haide models (made with European woods) and it was a better cello than mine. That is why I recommend a Euro model.

The reason Ifshin had me at " I have something to show you" was that on one of my previous visits to his shop he walked through carrying a violin and asked me "Do you know what this is?" to which I replied "A violin," he answered "Antonio Stradivari, 1698, want to try it?" So in the back room I got to play that Strad (the 2nd in my life) and an Andrea Guarneri violin that I think had been making the rounds of Bay Area violin shops for a while (at $300,000), I'd seen and played it previously in San Jose. That Strad was later sold to the San Francisco Symphony (for $2,000,000). I don't know what happened to the Guarnerius.

Although I have not played any of the l'Ancienne violins, (one nice viola) and some cellos, but I know (and have played with) at least one "ringer" who subs in various orchestras with his l'Ancienne violins and violas.

I do not take issue with Lyndon's opinions on this subject.

Anyway, there is almost certainly a difference, so see what you think.

When it comes to tone and response, it always comes down to the chemistry between instrument and player. The first Wang I bought, a del Gesu model, is rich, deep and fairly sweet, with a good deal of presence. I think that Leslie, the op, would like it. The second one, same model but different varnish, is more brilliant and gutsy, with a lot of edge, more projection and grit. My third, a twin to the second, sounds very similar but has for me a nicer quality overall.

Mine are not for sale but I can provide information on the maker’s agent.

Triangle Strings (the Jerry Pasewicz shop) mentioned above does excellent setup and adjustments.

In my case, I have something like a seven-to-12-year waiting list for my instruments. How much time and effort should I devote to setting up and administering online sales, versus making fiddles?

Good modern Chinese violins are currently being produced in large numbers by skilled workers with great economy of scale using tools that were unknown to early 20th century makers. Hence their supply is large and growing.

Pricing is all about supply and demand.

The argument that dealers are marking-up antique European violins to "improve the apparent value of contemporary Chinese instruments" is frankly absurd. Antique European violins cost more at the wholesale level than Chinese violins of comparable quality because of supply and demand.

Most of the millions of the pre-war European mass-produced violins were mediocre to terrible quality, and are not worth the time and cost of restoration, particularly when much better and more attractive Chinese violins are available for lower prices.

Good brand-name European workshop violins from the early 20th c. such as Roth, Heberlein, Todt, and various Mirecourt workshop violin continue to increase in value because of limited and shrinking supply and steady demand, not because of some dealer conspiracy.

It's economics 101: supply and demand.

Can violins produced in China still be that much cheaper? It seems like with rising costs of labor, extra taxes, and every middle man trying to make a profit along the way, that by the time it reaches the buyer, there wouldn't that much of a difference in costs.

Years ago David Nadien bought three Chinese violins in one go. And I understand that Elmar Oliveira has a Jay Haide in his collection. But what do those guys know? ;-)

The actual violins were then assembled by other poorly-paid piece workers from the pre-made parts, and sold by the dozen to importers for pennies a piece. These would then be imported and sold by mail-order for a few dollars each in the United States. Nowadays, most of these violins have fallen into disrepair and are not worth the time or effort to restore

This discussion is about higher-quality good violins, and why higher quality Chinese production violins are less expensive than antique European trade violins of the same high quality.

In regards to understanding tone, many Chinese have been trained in Europe, and have taken that knowledge back to their production facilities. As you can read in this thread, many people have been quite pleased with the tone and quality of the better Chinese production instruments. Frankly, your prejudice against them is clear and erroneus.

for $5000 I have a mint condition 1793 Ficker violin with no cracks at all, no Chinese violin is going to come close to that for $5000, except perhaps being louder and obnoxiously brighter

Btw, I didn’t even get to my Wangs today. With about a dozen fiddles in my collection - mostly Chinese - I use a rotation system. When I count up how much all of those makers owe me, my genuine del Gesu can’t be far behind! I also own an old German or Czech violin that is very nice. I am owed some marks for mentioning that one!

I used to own a fine old French fiddle as well. Wait a minute…Raphael saying something nice about old European violins? I thought there was some kind of divide here! If there is, as far as I’m concerned it’s between being informed and fair on one hand and so obviously biased as to be ridiculous.

David asked me a similar question in another thread that I answered seriously and in detail and I’m not going to keep answering it.

When buying an instrument you want to play it, preferably over a period of days. You want to compare it to several other instrumrnts, including one which you are familiar with.

Given that the op cannot go indoors, and that there are no local shops with instruments she can audition at home, it makes the most sense to have the items shipped to her.

She can choose a semi local shop like Triangle, or any larger one that will ship her several instrumrnts to try.

The fact that the instrument does not need to project well may open up some possibilities.

If for some reason there isn't anything satisfactory in those shops, there are shops in Virginia -- Richmond, Charlottesville, etc. -- that aren't going to be as far as the DC area (which has plenty of good shops for this price range).

Go during the day on a weekday and there should be few patrons, lowering risks.