My teachers want me to apply for IU, Cleveland, McDuffie, etc. - but a Christian school would align with my values, and this is as important to me as the music program quality is. As far as my level goes, I just performed the Carmen Fantasy (1st-3rd movement only) and just started the Tchaikovsky concerto.
Some specific schools I found were:
Baylor University
Texas Christian University
Any insight on how these school's music programs are and / or any suggestions on other Christian conservatories to consider?
Thank you!
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Incidentally, the McDuffie Center for Strings is located at Mercer University, which has a historic Baptist affiliation.
What is your goal with regard to playing the violin?
Editing to add a link you may find of interest: https://masterworksfestival.org/
I was not prepared for the backlash. Since most of my colleagues were very conservative and mostly ignorant of music outside the European classical tradition, they were supportive of students who began complaining that learning about other religious musical traditions upset their delicate sensibilities. When I showed Yoruba priests becoming egungun (ancestors) and communicating to the living through dance, students actually complained that I was promoting Satanic worship. I covered Sufism, Korean shamans, and Hindu devotional music, and they behaved as if I were showing pornography. Of course, since every religion makes use of music and other arts, it is impossible not to cover topics that conflict with Christian doctrine and provide the professional educational service for which I was contracted. Honestly, it was ridiculous, and I was embarrassed that my colleagues agreed with students on this, but they were not very well educated outside of their narrow focus on European classical music. In fact, they were comfortable in their bigotry.
When I was covering the extensive influence of Islam on European music, I actually had a student proclaim that Islam COULDN'T have influenced Christian European music... because he said Islam was a Satanic cult!!
I think one of the most important points of education is to challenge your beliefs and ideas, to deal with people different than you, and figure out how to live in a world with a wide diversity of cultures, traditions, and beliefs. Otherwise, you're just putting your fingers in your ears and chanting neh-neh-neh-neh.
Creation of art and sharing of art is not something that thrives in sheltered, segregated environments. Personal faith is of course totally fine -- there are many very religious musicians and you will find them at every single conservatory. In fact, most conservatories we visited had Christian organizations, so you will definitely be able to find people like you.
But what helps musicians to grow is playing WITH others and playing FOR others. When you restrict who you are playing with and who you are playing for, you are restricting the growth of art. You are missing out on learning from different types of people and all types of musicians and music. That's why top musicians, no matter how religious, don't typically attend religious institutions.
You will find your people no matter where you go. Go for the quality of the conservatory.
I should add that my violin professor at Oberlin, the late Stephen Clapp, was a committed and devout Christian his entire life. He was the faculty sponsor of the Oberlin Christian Fellowship (the other violin professor at the time was, I believe, the faculty sponsor of the Newman Fellowship - Catholic student organization, so there was an extremely devout violin faculty at a school not known in any way shape or form for religious observance). Stephen Clapp’s own training was at Oberlin and Juilliard, and after about 15 years at Oberlin he spent the rest of his career teaching at Juilliard.
Good luck finding what you want!
I'm sure there are rude atheists out there who will try to make you feel inferior. But in my experience they are pretty rare in civilized institutions.
Big public institutions have lots of student groups of every persuasion. Just off campus (like right across the street) at my university (Virginia Tech) you will find repurposed houses that are marked as student centers for Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Latter-Day Saints, and so on. How many churches would you expect to find in a town of 30000? It's a useful skill to learn how to "find your people" no matter where you go.
One possibility for you, Emma, is something Mary Ellen has already hinted at, even if she didn't mean to: You can find a violin *teacher* at a good conservatory who shares your faith and values, at least nominally, even if the institution is secular. That person can help you curate some of the faith-based opportunities on and off campus.
Thanks for the great feedback - appreciate all of your insight! To answer some questions:
@Mary Ellen Goree - my goals with playing violin are to get to the level where I can at least teach at some smaller music festivals, be invited to play at chamber music concerts, perhaps sub or play in a smaller professional orchestra. I'm not looking to be a major orchestra violinist or even do music full-time - but I would like to be at the level where I'm good enough to play with professionals, teach at a high level, etc.
@Elise, Tom, Paul, and others - the main reason why I'm looking into Christian colleges is because I'd like to learn music from that perspective - where I can be immersed in music from a viewpoint that aligns with my values (with teachers, students, etc.). I do understand that there are like-minded people everywhere and 100% agree that "Christian" colleges are not shelters - but I do think that there may be more people there and classes taught from that perspective - but I also do see the value of getting a variety of perspectives, so thanks for pointing that out! And thanks all for the suggestions on teachers, etc. - these are all great points.
Any feedback on those two colleges specifically - Baylor and TCU? I know Mary Ellen mentioned they have decent music programs - how respected are these in the music world, and do you think they are "worth it" in any way? Do decent graduates who have music careers come out of these schools that you know of?
I suppose you might feel more comfortable doing this in a music program at a Christian-affliiated school, but I suspect that you will not find the music instruction much different at those schools. However, you need to look at this really closely to see if it would really be worth your while to forsake the very best schools on the basis you state. Just my $0.02. And, good luck!
There are those who would come with pitchforks and torches at the mention of religion.
In the usa, many things are viewed as independent. Many would say that the study of music is a thing in and of itself, and is independent of other things, such as religion.
Religion can be a great source of inspiration, and help a person direct their life. It should be obvious that these things are important in music.
In terms of the question of the status of music programs at Christian schools, I suspect that the instructors will not be as proficient or well connected as those in other institutions. Look at the faculty, are they or have they performed at rhe level that you wish to achieve?
If you want professional credentials, you should go to the best school you can get into and your family can afford. If your teacher thinks you are Cleveland Institute of Music material, that suggests you should be looking at the top schools. You definitely do not want to go to a school where you’d be the best violinist there as a freshman.
Violin lessons and student orchestras don’t differ much in their nature from school to school, only in their quality. This is not to cast aspersions on the violin faculty at Baylor and TCU, who are excellent, but the overall student level is not equivalent to CIM or IU, and it isn’t close. I heard the Baylor Orchestra a few years ago, and I was not blown away by the violins.
Incidentally, had my parents thought about their education the way you seem to be thinking about yours, I would not exist. Committed Christians both, they met as grad students at Northwestern University….in the student group at a local church.
Dr. Bruce Berg
Emeritus Professor of Violin
Baylor Uniersity
@ Mary Ellen Goree - how interesting on your parents' story, thanks for sharing!
@ Susan - thanks for sharing about Credo - I was not aware.
@ Paul, Elise, Tom, and others - yes, very good points and definitely something to consider - thanks for the perspectives.
@Bruce Berg - thank you so much for the offer! I just sent you an email - let me know if you don't receive it!
It’s worth noting that the faculty at both Credo and Masterworks got their training at the sort of internationally respected top schools that your teacher wants you to consider.
There is much more to religion than reciting facts or doctrine. Practitioners spend years developing. Being around such people and learning from them may not be possible at a school that does not focus on religion.
Not to belabor the point, it's also the case that Christian labels don't always mean supporting a young Christian student effectively. As one example, there was a brilliant American teacher who recently died, and was ostentatiously Christian. But also had a habit of getting to know the women in his studio way too well.
Religions have many things in common with societies. In many instances it is far better than anarchy or chaos.
There are plenty of examples of religions gone bad, so to speak. There are equally many examples of society doing so. (And science gone bad too.)
We complain about religious people being prejudiced, and then we ourselves are prejudiced about religion. The irony.
If the OP chooses to attend Baylor because she wants to work with a particular teacher, I think that’s great. If she chooses to attend Baylor because they make her a financial offer that works with her family’s circumstances, I think that is also great.
If she chooses to attend Baylor because she is seeking a Christian bubble in which to spend four more years while honing her skills, I think she is going to be disappointed. I have known a lot of past and some current Baylor students. I have not noticed any increased level of devoutness among them. Some are, many aren’t. It’s in many respects a typical private university. I assume TCU is the same.
My honest opinion is that if the OP is as good as her teacher seems to think she is, she will be happier in the long run by attending a top-tier music school and finding a group of like-minded students there to spend time with. I don’t think either Baylor or TCU will provide the cocoon she may be looking for.
I am coming from the perspective of someone who has been active in progressive Christian churches my entire life.
I think Wheaton is about as good as you're going to get for an explicitly Christian institution -- Baylor may have a religious heritage but it's not a religious school in the same sense. Wheaton is the kind of place where you have to go to chapel four out of five weekdays, the dorm floors are single-sex, and drinking is 100% prohibited.
However, the conservatory peers there aren't going to be first-rate. As a Tchaikovsky-playing student, you will probably be at or near the top of the undergrads and likely competitive with many of the grad students as well -- their concerto competitions are available on YouTube, and that'll give you a pretty good idea of the level.
I think given your ambitions, Wheaton would be just fine for you from the perspective of an adequate education -- and being at the top might give you opportunities to lead that you might not get elsewhere. But it would undoubtedly be subpar to the opportunities you'd have elsewhere.
Most conservatory students are going to be too busy to party constantly, but partying behavior also generally declines the better the institution. Don't underestimate how much formerly sheltered students can cut loose once they get out of their potentially repressive homes or communities.
If you want a religious school because you want to avoid LGBTQ+ students and faculty, though (i.e. that's what you mean by "shares my values"), you'll find Wheaton, which essentially follows a don't-ask-don't-tell policy, to be too liberal for you. (And you will find that this attitude, if you have it, will not go over well professionally among other musicians, so it's going to have to be something you learn to conceal. There are tons of LGBTQ+ musicians and hateful attitudes won't be tolerated.)
I thought the Yale Institute for Sacred Music was aimed at grad students, and I am 100% confident that Hadelich takes only the most serious and committed full-time violin students. I really don’t think Yale is an option for the OP, certainly not as an undergrad.
When I was doing a master's there at another of their trade schools, I knew an undergrad who studied with Erick Friedman, so YSOM is not completely off bounds to the college. But access is carefully doled out.
For readers, I'd view this as a niche request, similar to someone looking for a good violin program at an all women's university, HBCU, upper midwest liberal arts college, UC campus, etc.
But because academic quality is high, so is the spirit of open inquiry. Wheaton does not allow students taking biology courses to opt out of teaching on evolution, for instance -- skipping class is permitted, but the material is on the test, so if you choose not to learn it, there's no mercy. Wheaton's required freshman Bible course is legendarily pitiless in its examination of what is and isn't actually written; for decades, freshman have often come away from that with their faith shaken to the core, if not shattered entirely.
Memorably, I took a writing seminar course on great novels, taught by the chair of the English department (an ordained Episcopalian priest who preferred to be addressed as Father). The course had a huge emphasis on transgressive literature, including things like examining the question of whether it was right for Christian authors to write pornographic or obscene material (and we were required to read and engage thoughtfully with such material).
In other words, don't assume that a Christian institution won't force you to challenge your belief system. (This is also why some in the Evangelical community cringe a bit at Wheaton, admittedly.)
But also don't assume that by studying music at such an institution, sacred music will be a meaningful element of the teaching. I can't recall my teacher ever explicitly assigning sacred music of any sort. I can't recall performing it in orchestra. I don't recall it appearing in coursework, even though the Bach chorales that everyone works through in first-year music theory would seem like an ideal opportunity to highlight the spiritual element of the work rather than treating it just as a dry exercise.
By the way, both of the teachers I've studied with in my current home city of DC teach at explicitly Catholic universities -- and neither of them is Catholic. (Both are Jewish.) You'll have to look at faculty hiring requirements and code of conducts to see how seriously a school takes faculty adherence to its affiliated religion, and therefore what attitudes will be present in the classroom.
Personally, I think the OP is far more likely to find what she is looking for if she can find a high-level violin teacher at a top institution who is a practicing Christian than she is if she goes to a school like Baylor in the mistaken belief that she will be surrounded by like-minded people there. It is true, however, that labels cannot be taken at face value and some very “Christian” teachers have behaved in some very unchristian ways towards their female students. Stephen S mentions one who recently passed away. I can think of another one who is facing 5 years of prison.
At some point it is necessary for all young people to figure out who they are, and how they will live in a world that is full of people who are not necessarily like them.
It's impossible to appreciate the fullness of someone's situation from a paragraph on a blog. Over the years I have known young people whose choice of college, major curriculum, etc., were greatly constrained by their parents. I knew a young person who was quite talented on the violin whose parents restricted her choices so severely that she ended up trying to study the violin at an extremely conservative Christian college (in the same general category as Bob Jones University or Regent University). She lasted a year there. Often such a young person will say that the choice was entirely theirs, and at that point it is impossible to know what is really true, and it is altogether pointless (not to mention rude and inappropriate) to probe further, especially when the individual and her parents are casual acquaintances at best.
As a note, your conservatory years may be the only time you can easily find peers who match you in skill, availability, and commitment, along with a built-in audience and the support of an institution. Others can speak more about this, but it’s pretty much impossible to replicate the conservatory experience on your own as a working adult, unless you're one of the rare people who become a full-time performer. And even then, the logistics can still be challenging.
Another possibility is to go TCU/Baylor (or Wheaton or Oral Roberts) and then pursue a master’s degree at a conservatory. However, master’s degrees are only two years, with less time to explore.
Perhaps one of the conventional music schools/conservatory has an on campus, Christian community? It would seem like a Dean of Students Office would know.
Good luck finding what you seek. I suspect that, if you can find both, your college experience will be greatly enhanced. At the same time, college can be excellent at expanding one's perspectives and horizons. So, don't rule out those possibilities.
It is not about finding a Christian community on campus, but rather approaching the study from that perspective.
Having spent years of my childhood studying violin with a deeply religious professor at an explicitly Evangelical institution, I cannot say that this was any different than studying with any other teacher. His bookshelves were filled with music-related and science-related books, for the most part. I can't recall ever seeing any theology, though a Bible was displayed. When he assigned reading (which he did often), it was the great pedagogues and musicians, without any apparent lean towards more religious perspectives.
By contrast, I've had several Jewish teachers for whom their background explicitly informed the way that they looked at certain pieces of music, but I think this related more to their cultural than religious Jewishness.
I'm curious, too, what "Christian values" mean in this case. Does this mean a focus on a life spent in self-sacrificial service to others? A significant amount of time spent in contemplative religious study? Lots of time reserved for volunteer work? Choosing kindness and humility instead of competitiveness? Effort to discover a personal calling? The opportunity to do missions work and/or community outreach?
Or do you mean conservative values? Limiting your exposure to people who aren't straight, Christian, Republican, or White? Being surrounded by people who share a belief in individual freedom and limited government? Living under strict campus rules that would reduce your temptation to sin (view 'sinful' media, commit sexual sins, drink, smoke, use drugs, etc.)? A focus on personal fiscal responsibility and success through the Prosperity Gospel?
People attend explicitly religious institutions for many reasons. Your particular interpretation of "Christian values" will probably have a large impact on where you'd feel comfortable.
I think that for someone steeped in some very particular ideology, it can actually be quite traumatic to leave the support and structure of that community and live in a community with a very different ideology; how do you make friends who live a different 'lifestyle', and can you really straddle both worlds rather than just having to make a clean break with one to enter the other?
Just leaving the family structure is difficult enough for a teen. I had no idea what I wanted to do with myself at that age (still not entirely sure...), so I wouldn't really expect Emma to have fully formulated answers to very complicated questions. I take Emma's wish as a broader one to not overcomplicate her life as she moves into a much bigger world to suddenly take in.
Emma, the thing you want might not exist, but there are some quite coherent paths forward and some tradeoffs for any of them.
I do disagree with your statement that "We should certainly be informed about the experiences and beliefs of the composer and factor them into our interpretation, but apart from that the onus is on us to play as perfectly as possible and just don’t get in the way of the music (as Milstein noted when talking about Bach in a Zuckerman interview) The audience has no interest in your beliefs and experiences which is, dare I say it, a classic example of art reflecting life."
As you stated earlier in your post, your grief manifested in your playing. From my perspective that us not something to try to avoid. You are not a record player. Playing th3 violin is an expression of who you are. That is valid. It is not as if there is only one correct interpretation of a work.
In terms of what Emma means by Christiam values, I am not certain.
To comment more on what Steven said, religious experience is personal. It does not matter if a listener cares. However, this being said, I do think that religious experience can influence the music, in much the same way that Steven says grief has manifested in his playing. Who we are influences our music. It is more subtle that having rosin transubstantiate Christian.
I am trying to come up with a solution that satisfies the OP’s perceived wishes while enabling her to continue to make excellent progress and get the best possible musical education. I don’t think that what she appears to be looking for (CIM-level teaching at an Oral Roberts--type campus) actually exists. I do think Wheaton is likely to come closer than Baylor, though.
Editing to add that I think Christian’s thoughtful response bears consideration (after the first paragraph, anyway),
The younger members of the Annie Moses Band are Juilliard trained. Why not look them up?
You might go to a Christian conservatory and find them so compromised with worldly values (or worse - I get Roys Report emails) that you might as well have gone to a purely secular institution and received the best violin teaching available.
My own, exemplarily patient teacher, otherwise a Professor at the RAM, was a Christian, just how fruitfully so I only discovered later.
And I think Mary Ellen is trying to take that seriously by trying to bridge the gap or find some kind of solution, or speak more closely to what the root of Emma's question is, and that Lydia also gets the dynamic. If we look around at a divided society, we see all kinds of contradictory and opposing ways of viewing the world that aren't easy to reconcile, and I wouldn't expect a teenager to go off to school somewhere where she doesn't have an expectation that there's a community waiting for her.
This might be a particularly American cultural artifact that could be quite unintuitive to people in other countries.
(Sorry Mary Ellen, the devil made me do it!)
At the very least I wanted to be assured that it did not mean something intolerant and worse. The lack of an explanation and more distressing, the lack of mention of these possibilities is making me depressed. Is this topic really to find a safe haven from fine musicians because of THEIR personal beliefs or nature? Please tell me I am wrong.
How about an extreme to illustrate? [Just to be clear, I stress this is an analogy and has no intended relevance to this topic]. If someone posted that they wanted to find a school where they could study 'from Caucasian perspective' would we all tiptoe round it so carefully without at least some explanation?
If the question was rephrased to simply "what are some top Christian music schools" would that make people feel more comfortable?
What I can offer as a Jew is the following: many, and maybe most, of the great violinists of the 20th and 21st century were/are Jewish. Does their background somehow give them some sort of understanding of the violin and the music? Who knows?
And there can be odd intersections. Mischa Elman recorded what is probably the most Jewish Ave Maria (Schubert) you will ever hear.
Maybe the student wants her teacher to pray with her during lessons.
Maybe the student is worried about negotiating rehearsals that conflict with observing the Sabbath. An observant teacher can coach them through that situation.
Maybe she needs a teacher who is supportive of her spending a lot of time with Bible study and church activities. There are those conservatory teachers who demand total commitment to the violin. If they already give students a hard time for doing extracurriculars or working a part-time job, they aren’t going to be very nice about Bible study.
Or maybe it’s as bad as some of us fear, and it’s about wanting to complain to a teacher about Tchaikovsky’s personal life.
It’s hard to say if a teacher at a Christian college would be a better fit than an empathetic teacher at a regular conservatory. Not every Christian teacher communicates in ways a student hopes.
I think the OP should keep an open mind: take trial lessons with teachers and talk to Christian students at different schools, and then go from there.
Certainly there has been more effort at poking fun, or being prejudicial than trying to understand.
We would not talk about a scientific perspective in terms of using a slide rule, writing with chalk, etc. But we think the above description of religion is accurate?
music is not primarily approached from a scientific perspective. Ask your violin teacher about the wave equation, or Youngs modulus of elasticity.
In fact, it is not usually approached based on reason, psychology, etc. Again, ask a violin teacher about modus ponens.
However, here we are with the mention of religion, which may be considered close to music in terms of some of its philosophy, and we are confused at best.
There is some interesting Christian philosophy regarding knowledge which is relevant here.
As a practical matter I second Frieda's suggestion to reach out to Christian students when visiting the usual top (secular) programs.
Two stories that this thread reminded me of:
1) When looking for an apartment-share in Boston in my early 20s, I remember opting NOT to move in with a couple of evangelical women, even though they were super friendly – because I assumed they'd be uncomfortable if my boyfriend slept over (and probably also worried they'd try to recruit me or something). When they asked why I decided not to move in – and I responded honestly – one woman told me that she wished I'd checked out my assumptions with them before making my decision, that she had no interest in forcing her views on me, and that she thought we'd have gotten along well. (The two people I did choose to room with, despite educational/religious backgrounds similar to mine, turned out to be HORRIBLE roommates.)
2) more germane to OP's question: I remember two of my Brevard cabin mates came from very conservative Christian families. They abstained from going to the campus dance, faithfully attended church every Sunday, and argued passionately about scripture. Being Christian was absolutely central to their identities, in a way that I hadn't experienced before. They were also two of the most gifted musicians there – section leaders, finalists in the concerto competition. One of them went on to a solid conservatory and won a seat in the Detroit Symphony at age 21. (she's now the Associate Concertmaster.) The other studied music at Bob Jones University (which was less competitive/intense musically but a more homogenous faith community) and then headed to a conventional music conservatory Europe for graduate work. She has had a different sort of musical career – more regional, more varied – but I believe she's been very satisfied with that life. Both are still actively Christian, although I think both have probably evolved a bit from the orthodoxy of their youth. Both married people in their faith, whom they met in non-Christian musical settings.
TLDR: there are many paths up the musical mountain. Not all are likely to lead to the summit – at least not without some serious bushwhacking.
I don’t believe the New Testament has much to say about music in general, at least in comparison to the Old Testament. Music itself has been associated with pride, worldliness and sophistication - qualities that would have been frowned upon by the early Christians. Similar to other art forms, music has an important moral dimension. I think a Christian perspective may share JS Bach’s sentiment that music was for God alone, as opposed to the individual or the entertainment and approval of one’s contemporaries.
"The aim and final reason of all music should be none else but the glory of God and refreshing the soul."
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