Handel Sonata No. 4 vs Vivaldi A minor

July 18, 2023, 9:39 PM · Greetings,
Not at all. That’s ridiculous although the question of what aspects are easy of difficult may need defining. Up until the 1970s or so the Handel sonatas were staple recital repertoire, Milstein and Szigeti being two players who constantly performed them. The D major is a large scale work which requires a diversity of technique , beautiful sound and the highest level of artistry to pull off. Many years ago an absolutely world class soloist on this site wryly tells a story about how although he was already playing major concertos all over the place he went to a renowned Russian teacher who put him on the Handel D major to improve his bowing. I al most always played either the D or A major sonatas in my ‘very7 ocassional recitals and found them exhausting. Szigeti used an amazing bowing for the last movement of the d major which I still find mind blowing, playing one group at the heel and then doing a fouetté bowing (whipping to the point) for the repetition of the pattern. I loved doing that one although it is about as unauthentic as one could wish for. those were the days! Sigh….
Cheers,
Buri

Edited: July 19, 2023, 8:15 AM · I think it depends on the age and assets of the student. The Handel slow movements are more intricate -- and there are two of them! -- which is harder for kids who are learning this level repertoire very early. My kids played Vivaldi a minor at age 7 or 8, and I think those Handel slow movements would definitely have been more challenging for them. In terms of sheer number of fast notes, Vivaldi probably has more, but again they are generally a little bit more straightforward in terms of bowing and shifting. Moral of the story: for a younger student I would definitely do Vivaldi first. For an adult, it could go either way.

July 19, 2023, 9:57 AM · What Buri said - and that the Handel (particularly the first movement) is a stunning, complex, beautiful and haunting piece.

By way of amusement I once played the first movement at a summer camp - but there was no pianist so I introduced it as 'Handel's Sonata for Solo Violin'.
Nobody was fooled of course, but to my ear it works rather well that way - (of course you have to omit the rest passage).

Edited: July 19, 2023, 1:02 PM · I agree. In my opinion, Handel 4th Sonata is harder to read in the beginning. It requires a more matured musicality through the entire, more extensive work and it has bigger passages of consecutive fast notes in the Allegros.
I think Handel Sonata No. 4 is a good choice to play AFTER Vivaldi A minor.

July 19, 2023, 1:11 PM · The Handel is a good piece to learn while learning the Vivaldi. It’s good to learn works by composers of the same era/style.

Edited: July 24, 2023, 11:20 AM · There is no doubt that the Handel is harder. Its expressive range is greater and there are plenty of fast notes (last movement!). Its key of D Major makes it easier than some of the other Handel sonatas, the instrument sounds wonderful. Also there are no double stops, in this regard the A-Major sonata is far harder.

I performed it myself in my youth and I was far past the a-minor concerto at the time. Yet I had to put in a lot of practice time.

July 22, 2023, 8:03 AM · All this bow-shaking baroque music in the Suzuki repertoire has the distinct purpose of developing facility. If you don't want your child or your student to become a "second movement soloist" (like me at age 17) then you need steady doses of sixteenth notes, and you need to insist that it's polished, and the teacher needs to provide the student with practice methods that will get it there, often a step that is sorely lacking (it definitely was in my case -- I had to import methods that I was learning from my piano teacher). There's a huge difference in technique between 85% and 98% accuracy at tempo in the second movement of the Handel D Major Sonata.

Edited: July 25, 2023, 8:01 AM · I attended a recital by Mischa Elman in 1963 which he started by performing Handel's 4th Sonata; definitely not a Baroque interpretation.

I had started playing the 6 Handel violin Sonatas from a book of my father's 15 years earlier when I resumed violin playing after quitting lessons in 1946 just before starting junior high school. (I would not have known what a Baroque interpretation was back then in 1948. Did anyone?) I don't think I ever performed it for other people until about 15 years ago for the annual soiree performance of my piano trio that our violinist had to miss because of illness (I was normally the cellist of the trio)

I had never heard of Vivaldi back then (in the 1940s) nor, as far as I know, heard any of his music. It wasn't until I bought an LP of The Four Seasons around the end of my college years that I discovered him.

I "discovered" Vivaldi's A minor Concerto when I started teaching from the Suzuki books around 1975 and quickly bought a different version so my students could play it with more conventional bowings. (I think I know what Suzuki was trying to do with those bowings but....). I agree, teaching this piece should precede the Handel D Major Sonata.

Edited: July 25, 2023, 12:27 PM · @Andrew - baroque interpretation was known back then but perhaps not widely. Basically, my relative Wanda Landowska began to pioneer and popularize it in the 1920s and 1930s. One of her most famous statements about it occurred in the early 1940s when she was rehearsing a sonata with Casals. They had a lengthy discussion about whether a trill should start on the note above -- the baroque practice which she advocated -- or on the note itself which Casals advocated. Finally, when they could not agree, she said: "That's fine dear. You play it your way, and I will play it Bach's way."