If you are a, tut-tut, Shoulder Rest user:

November 9, 2022, 8:11 PM · Is this due to the rubber breaking, or just becoming less "grippy", and leading to slippage?

November 10, 2022, 4:43 AM · I used to worry about shoulder-rest friction, but after glueing some chamois leather to my chinrest, I don't worry any more - the two combined are what seems to matter.

November 10, 2022, 7:02 AM · I use the Everest. I've never heard of the Tut Tut. Must be made by the same company as the Invisirest.

Edited: November 10, 2022, 8:18 AM · Eric - It's due to the rubber ageing and then breaking and exposing metal. You pay the earth buying replacement rubber parts from the SR manufacturer, so this is one way in which I improvise. It doesn't seem straightforward to buy the rubber tubing these days, and the experience I had had of Tygon tubing in peristaltic laboratory pumps was pretty positive.

Paul, please note my punctuation - tut-tut is not a brand - It's my admission of being a megasloping-shouldered, second-class citizen in this community (The Kreddle chinrest did nothing for me). This is the first I hear of the Invisirest or the Phantom Adjustable (or Original)!
I think this tubing would be suitable for several makes of shoulder rest (I'm using bon musica at the moment - it can come off).

November 10, 2022, 8:30 AM · My Supply Chain Management credentials led me to tubing to cover the clamps that hold my Wolf-Secondo SR to my violin. The tubing does not last forever and it's easy to cut off a piece large enough to re-cover the clamps.

Yeah, I did check out Wolf's replacement parts - way too expensive for an off-the-shelf gauge of tubing.

November 10, 2022, 11:01 AM · Is the tut-tut version the steam powered one?

November 10, 2022, 12:54 PM · +1 to Elise.

November 10, 2022, 2:26 PM · John, first of all, I want to reprimand you for being a "megasloping-shouldered, second-class citizen" (I laughed out loud at that description).

Now that that's done with and you've accepted what you are:

I'm guessing the rubber on your Wolf wears out quickly because you have to put it on super tightly for it not to slip, especially as the rubber ages.

I've created an invention that prevents SRs from slipping. Because of this, the SR no longer has to be put on tightly, and the rubber will last much longer (in addition to being just as effective when it's no longer sticky). So, when that's available, it might help (especially with Wolf Secondos, as they are by far the most insecure rest I've seen, despite all their benefits).

However, there is another solution that I would recommend: buy Everest feet. They have a much more permanent rubber coating on them. I have never seen it wear down. Yes, it will become somewhat less sticky over time, but it won't rip. It also makes the Wolf much more secure, since the feet have a more substantial "hook" to them as opposed to the stock Wolf feet. Yes, they've expensive, but I'd say it's worth it. Keep in mind, you might want the "Extended" feet to match the longer length of the Wolf screws, but that depends on how low your SR usually is.

For reference:

Everest foot screw size: 0.151"
Wolf foot screw size: 0.153"
Kun foot screw size: 0.161"

November 10, 2022, 3:01 PM · At the risk of generating even more tut-tutting, and possibly some chortling, let me just say that all rubbers are not created equal.

November 10, 2022, 3:06 PM · Erik, you say Everest feet are "expensive, but I'd say it's worth it" - Quite a contrast with certain other expensive Everest products I know of (Yes, they're better value than, say, Anglia, but smaller firms will give better value).
Would Everest fit feet the bon musica?

November 10, 2022, 4:31 PM · Sorry John, I now realize I mixed up your post and George's post: I thought you were using a Wolf.

I'm surprised that the Bon Musica's rubber has worn down! I recall that it uses a vulcanized rubber, so I assume you may be really be cranking that thing on to the violin so it doesn't slip? How long did the rubber last before it needed replacing?

I actually have no idea if Everest feet fit the Bon Musica. I've never had a student whom had issues with the Bon Musica's feet wearing down, so I've never tried fitting different feet on it.

Not to keep plugging my invention, but if your feet are wearing down because you feel the need to put on the SR very tightly, it would solve that problem. In fact, with it, you could just plasti-dip the feet for a permanent coating, since the stickiness of the rubber no longer has a role in how secure the SR is. However, it will be close to $30, so probably not worth it just to save a bit of money on rubber. But it might be worth it if you're tired of the SR slipping, or feel like you're limited in what positions you can securely attach it.

Edited: November 10, 2022, 5:01 PM · Elise, don't go and buy a Tut-Tut just because you let off a lot of steam and think you'll thereby put its performance out of this world.
Erik, what I'm tired of is the shoulder rest coming off when I'm straining to reach the highest positions (this is more so with my viola).

Edited: November 10, 2022, 5:15 PM · John, my invention will fix that problem. With it, the shoulder rest couldn't come off even if you shook your viola as hard as you could, only holding onto the SR (Yes, I've done this to test it, but I don't recommend anyone else do the same).

I dropped 2 different violas in my teens, due to exactly what you're describing... funny thing is I went years without that problem, because I wasn't shifting above 3rd position, and I wasn't doing much vibrato. After that happened, I totally changed my form and became much more tense for many years. That fear in the back of my mind certainly held me back.

My opinion is that SRs should be as predictable and secure as chinrests are. Note that no one ever even *thinks* about whether their chinrest is going to move. Meanwhile, it's not uncommon to see players at a high level constantly "testing" their SRs as a sort of nervous habit, especially at competitions. This habit is almost certainly a result of them having a bad experience in the past.

Edited: November 11, 2022, 4:30 PM · Erik, you know that the Phantom, now out of stock, stabilises the shoulder rest by fixing it to the chinrest? Does your invention employ a similar principle?
P.S., Actually, I tell a lie - it's the button it fixes to, not the chinrest - but you seem to already know the truth, so, fortunately, my lie fell on deaf ears!

November 11, 2022, 2:59 PM · Hey John, I actually own a Phantom that I bought years ago when they first started selling them. It worked really terribly for me, largely because the attachment system relies on your end button being a particular shape. It would immediately come loose. But even if it hadn't, it never felt quite right for me. It's fairly flexible, which means if you press your shoulder into it, it will bend and hit the back of the violin. It also increase the thickness of the violin closest to the collarbone, which I didn't like.

In their defense, it appears they have modified the attachment system to be somewhat better, which is nice. (but I can't vouch for how much better it works).

My invention, however, is nothing like what is available on the market. It is not a full shoulder rest, but rather something you attach to your current SR to allow it to be securely placed in any position. In this way, you can still have what you're used to, but with the added trait of it never slipping, regardless of what position you put it on the violin.

Edited: November 14, 2022, 5:21 PM · I look forward to seeing it - have you patented it (My father patented his stackable music desks/stands - but I wasn't conscious of a massive rise in our standard of living as a result, we still needed Mum's income)?

November 14, 2022, 9:51 PM · I like my approach to this.

I use a thin, flexible piece of dyed leather (deep brown, fast-dyed pig-skin) to protect my violin from it's owner. I fasten it to the underside of my KUN should rest, and flop it over the top of my chin rest each time before playing.

It took a couple of tries getting the shape right. On the KUN should rest, the two risers that grip the violin are bolted onto the underside of the shoulder rest via two nuts. (This makes the risers adjustable.) I fasten the leather to the shoulder rest by placing it between the should rest and these two risers. I punched two holes in the leather to fit over the top of the two bolts. (Used a 3-hole paper punch.)

This works great. The leather makes the chin rest more comfortable. (Soft and nice.) The smell of the leather kind of enhances the whole experience. Nor is it necessary to glue anything to the chin rest to get the same effect. (The leather is non-slip on the chin rest.)

Eventually, perspiration will have it's way, so I cut another piece of leather using a template that I have. In purchasing the leather, I had to buy an entire pig-skin. So, I have a lifetime supply.

Beats placing a handkerchief over the chin rest. (In my view.)

Edited: November 14, 2022, 10:17 PM ·
I like my approach to this.

I use a thin, flexible piece of dyed leather (deep-brown, fast-dyed, pig-skin) to protect my violin from it's owner. I fasten it to the underside of my KUN should rest, and flop it over the top of my chin rest each time before playing.

It took a few tries getting the shape right. On the KUN shoulder rest, the two risers that grip the violin are bolted onto the underside of the shoulder rest via two nuts. (This makes the risers back and forth adjustable for different sized violins.) I fasten the leather to the shoulder rest by placing it between the should rest and these two risers. I punched two holes in the leather to fit over the top of the two bolts. (Used a 3-hole paper punch to punch each hole.)

This works great. The leather makes the chin rest more comfortable. (Sort of soft and nice.) The smell of the leather tends to enhance the whole experience. Nor is it necessary to glue anything to the chin rest to get the same effect. (The leather is non-slip on the chin rest.) My violin has a dark, orange-brown varnish, so the leather looks really neat with the violin.

Eventually, perspiration will have it's way, so I cut another piece of leather using a template that I have. In purchasing the leather, I had to buy an entire pig-skin. So, I have a lifetime supply.

Beats placing a handkerchief between the violinist and the violin. (In my view.)

November 16, 2022, 10:50 PM · John, I will probably try to at least get a provisional patent in place in case it takes off. This will at least give me some leverage if someone tries to sell a copycat device on Amazon or something.

November 17, 2022, 5:56 AM · Also, it stops somebody else patenting it, cutting you out, and making a massive profit for themself.

November 17, 2022, 2:39 PM · My inner pessimist says that there isn't a *massive* profit to be made, especially since many people claim their SRs never slip :) Always hard to tell demand until the product is on the market, though. I always figure that nothing in the violin world really makes that much money.

I know I'll be using it... I want my SR to be closer to my collarbone but even with its sticky rubber I know it will eventually slip.