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Eudoxa A- does it ever stabilize?!

Edited: July 22, 2022, 5:20 PM · After six months of using Eudoxa violin strings, I've given up and switched back to Thomastik PI. I really liked them - sound, response, etc, and had no issues with G and D. But the A wouldn't stay in tune for more than a couple of minutes, no matter if played or sitting in its case, no matter if at the beginning or the end of a hours long practice session, no matter if hot or cold, dry or humid weather, dry or sweaty fingers... When the string finally started to unravel I set false hope into a replacement string, which acted the same way during the last two months.

But there ARE folks who manage to play with a complete set of Eudoxa. Are they continuously playing with a false A? Or am I doing something wrong?!

Replies (39)

July 22, 2022, 5:38 PM · Sounds like you got one with a thin spot.
July 22, 2022, 6:35 PM · The A is definitely the least stable of the 3 strings, both for Eudoxa and Oliv (and even Passione though they are in fact more stable). if this effect bothers you enough to forgo the advantage of gut strings has to be your judgement.

In my experience the A always rises while the instrument is being played and then goes flat while the instrument in in its case.

July 22, 2022, 8:26 PM · I used Eudoxa strings back in the 1970s and early 1980s. I eventually grew tired of their pitch instability, especially in humid South Florida. I switched to Dominant and used them for about 25 years, then I switched to Warchal Amber. I tried Eudoxa strings again about a year ago and it did not go well. I'm back to synthetic strings again (Dominant Pro, Evah Pirazzi, Warchal Brilliant).
July 22, 2022, 9:41 PM · As far as gut goes, the core of the A in a wound string is razor thin. Too thin, really. Try an unwound A if you like gut; the plain A on my best violin never goes flat.
July 23, 2022, 6:15 AM · My trusted luthier told me that Eudoxa strings are entirely made by Pirastro, and the thickness has more variation than surgical gut, which is used to make the Gold type string. He advised me to use the Gold strings instead.
This conversation took place several decades ago: I don't know if the manufacturing process has been changed meanwhile.
Edited: July 31, 2022, 10:46 AM · For a few years, I used all four Eudoxas in a dance band under strong lighting. The dry heat made my G rise by a semitone in the first 4-minute dance. I had to tune down to G flat and adapt my fingerings while it crept up to pitch.
Later, with Dominants, the heat would lower the string tension, but the real gut tail-gut would shrink enough to compensate!
July 23, 2022, 4:40 PM · One gets used to it to the point it does not matter much. They are definitely usable in the concert stage.

True, pure(unwound) gut for me was quite pitch stable. Different bowing resistance, but worth a try.

You can also try good synthetic or steel As. May try soon wound gut with Perpetual Cadenza A soon, motivated by another thread in this forum.

I would definitely *not* give up on gut just because of Pirastro's Eudoxa and Oliv A wound gut experience. You can adapt or try a different option, but at least I would not get to the conclusion that "gut is bad/outdated" just because of your bad experience.

Very few synthetics offer a whole "gut-like" experience. Of course it is not "wrong" to use synthetics! But the path of least resistance would be "to hell with all this instability!" and sacrifice what you love in gut strings for a lesser compromise.

Edited: July 24, 2022, 12:39 PM · So, let's get naked and try a plain gut A with Eudoxa G&D... I'm sure someone has experience with this kind of mix? Which plain gut A would you think I should start with? Chorda? Tricolore?
July 24, 2022, 12:48 PM · My experience with Eudoxa strings in mid-Atlantic and California-desert climates (before switching to synthetic-core around 1970) is that they are always at the mercy of changing atmospheric conditions surrounding the instrument.

That's why I switched.

Edited: July 25, 2022, 3:47 PM · Tricolore wrapped strings (and naked A) don’t have that sort of problem. Well, I once did have a defective wrapped A that always needed an inch of winding per day, for some months. But normally, they are very good.

Consider trying light gauge as well as medium.

July 24, 2022, 11:11 PM · Nonono, definitely not Chorda...

I like Aquila. Gamut is ok too.

I think wound d g, plain a, steel e was Heifetz' exact preference if I remember right.

Edited: July 25, 2022, 3:48 PM · Heifetz went for the plain A and D.
Edited: July 25, 2022, 3:50 AM · I think Gamut heavy gauge A would be right for higher tension strings, maybe Medium gauge for Eudoxa

For Baroque all gut strings I uses Gamut extra heavy gauge

Edited: July 25, 2022, 4:37 PM · As a few have noted the Gamut unwound sheep gut A is great. You can either get their ‘Academie’ string or their ‘Tricolore’ A which is very similar. In my opinion a varnished unwound gut A, is superior to the Pirastro Eudoxa A in both sound and stability. In the summer months, I sometimes use the Pirastro Oliv wound gut G and D, which are really nice sounding and reliable.
July 28, 2022, 12:27 AM · “As far as gut goes, the core of the A in a wound string is razor thin. Too thin, really. “

Strings are engineered. By actual engineers. Eudora A strings aren’t “too thin.” They are exactly the diameter they should be.

No, they don’t stabilize like synthetics. Gut is very sensitive to heat and humidity.

Edited: July 28, 2022, 2:02 AM · No, he was talking about the thickness of the gut core underneath the metal winding and yes on a Eudoxa A the gut core is very very thin, not like a plain gut A which is much thicker and more stable

Add to that reports are that Eudoxas quality control are not what it was in the old days with strings breaking for no apparent reasons

July 28, 2022, 8:37 AM · In my experience, if the Eudoxa A "breaks" it does so only by windings failing-not a sudden "snap" during performance. It is not only the Eudoxa, but silver wound Oliv Ds, and Oliv A (for example.) I remember this happening to me even with the Obligato (synthetic) A more than a decade ago. In short, IME, Pirastro thin wound strings of all types could theoretically be "delicate", so I try to be gentle with them while wiping off rosin (they will ship you a replacement string, but I rather avoid the hassle.)

For their sound I would still recommend these "delicately wound" strings, at least the gut strings. Glad Pirastro still makes them, unlike most companies that have "moved on" from gut core strings, and even publicly mock them! Meanwhile sometimes they claim their strings sound "like gut", even though they do not produce a single gut core set (this is not meant towards Warchal, as they seem to respect gut strings despite not producing any.)

When I used a Gold Label set years ago, the windings never failed-not sure if that means they never do, however.

Edited: July 30, 2022, 10:26 PM · Do the Eudoxa and Olive A ever stablize? Well, sort of. I use them sometimes and have little problem. They do take quite a while to stretch fully.

I am older, and well remember the situation before there were any synthetic strings at all.

The choice was gut or steel. Many players did not use the aluminum wound gut A string because of the same problems as now: they were not very pitch-stable, and the aluminum winding is damaged rather easily. The D and G were never a problem. Eudoxas were popular, but I always preferred the Tricolore and the Pirastro Gold Label, which had a stronger and more metallic tone than the Eudoxas. As for the gut A, as others have said, the solution is a plain gut A in 14 1/2 or 15 gauge. The string responds readily, has a good, strong tone, and stays in tune better than a wound-gut A. The only downside is that they don't last too long, but they're less expensive.

Some players went the Oistrakh route and used a steel A, which are very functional, but the sound isn't as nice.

Edited: August 2, 2022, 4:05 AM · My first viola (in 1963) had plain gut A & D, with "true fifths" on the envelope as a selling point! But the D had to be played further up the string than the others... Perhaps I should have played my "true fifths" with separate fingers?
Later, with an Eudoxa set, the A broke too often for my finances, so I settled for steel. Yuk!

15 years later, in my tango period, I went back from harsh Dominants to sweet Eudoxas to play near micriphones..

Now Tonicas, on both my "Mozart" and "Brahms" violas.
I like the (discontinued) Eudoxa-Aricore A, even with other sets.

Edited: July 31, 2022, 9:33 PM · I was going to start a new thread on a similar matter, but thought it unnecessary given this one exists and I already replied to it.

Just ordered the lightest gauged non-stiff Oliv G (15 1/4 3.6kp) & D (16 1/4 4.7kp) along with a Perpetual Cadenza A (5.4kp) to be used with a medium Oliv E (8.0kp). A total of 21.70kp on a theoretical 440hz (which is rarely the case-I generally tune to 442+, but as a matter of reference.)

Haven't made this experiment, and mentioned to Mr. Bo that I would try it one day. Just wanted to figure out if it would work as a Pirastro wound gut A "substitute", since for me the Perpetual Cadenza are the least "synthetic sounding" of all tried synthetics, combined with wonderful low tension for synthetics. I know the Eudoxa-Chromcor and Eudoxa-Aricore A options exist-and I have indeed tried both before-but since I enjoy the Cadenza as "similar to gut", I wonder what the results may be. Do not have the money to try out all the options available sadly. Wanted an aluminum D, thus the gold/aluminum D choice-I know the Oliv Silver D is good and well-loved. Non-Stiff because the rigid Olivs are rather high tension, especially the D, even at its lightest. 4.7kp (regular) vs 5.4kp (stiff) is a BIG difference, and I have playing experience with the latter.

The above is all geeky sounding: as a summary, just letting you know I will be trying the Perpetual *Cadenza* A as a wound gut A substitute.

As aforementioned, one can always use a good pure gut A for great pitch stability... and if I recall correctly, the Gold Label wound gut A appeared to me quite stable.

August 4, 2022, 12:59 AM · Waiting on the new strings to arrive, but figured I still had the old Oliv set that were not too worn out, because I had my violin accident happen perhaps a week after obtaining them. They were set aside by the luthier, and I had not used them since.

My current setup of all-used strings are:

Regular Oliv G 15.5
Regular Oliv D Gold/Aluminum 16.5
Perpetual Cadenza A
Perpetual Cadenza E

Preliminary results are that indeed the Perpetual A seems to be fine with these wound gut strings, but I have to wait for the gut to stretch a bit more for a more final opinion. For now it is neither too bright for the Oliv, nor too warm. What I like the most about the Cadenza is that high position playing is not that different from gut vs many more popular options. They retain lots of clarity with a smidgen of smoothness. Gut can be smooth too, but generally has a middy timbre that grants them a more natural and penetrating sound without necessarily being the loudest.

I already also noticed how these regular Olivs are much better than the replaced Cadenza G&D, but it's not an entirely fair comparison given that these Cadenza have been used for longer-and gut is gut.

From the current "specialty Pirastro As" to be used with gut (Eudoxa Chromcor, Eudoxa Aricore), this Perpetual Cadenza A may be a better, more "modern" solution. I did like these sñecialty strings too, but the Perpetual Cadenza have a more beautiful violin tone, snd may project more at least vs the Eudoxa-Aricore (sound is subjective to be sure.) Steel As are fine but require a little bit of an additional setup, for the most part. Nowadays I prefer good synthetic As, the Eudoxa 14, or good stable gut As for gut core G&D combinations.

Contrary to the thread's author, I did find the Eudoxa A 14 to be stable but it does need some environment stability and that you get them used to your fingers for every performance/practice session. For the sound it has I find this "worth it" but understand why many would be better off with, say, a Passione A (or Cadenza, Warchal Avantgarde, etc.)

Will update later. But please do not be afraid of all gut core As. Some are quite stable, and you can always use a non-gut A string solution that works *for you/yourviolin*.

My apologies for the lengthy and possibly unnecessary post. Enjoy your practice/music making.

Edited: August 5, 2022, 6:07 PM · A day after I replaced Perpetual Cadenza G&D with two older Oliv strings, the new two Oliv and Cadenza A strings arrived. I already had an unused Oliv E mittel for this particular experiment. I replaced all old strings with the following yesterday, late afternoon:

Oliv G 15.5 non-stiff (the 15.25 was out of stock! This is merely a new 15.5 replacing an old 15.5)
Oliv D Gold/Aluminum non stiff 16.25 (replaced a 16.5)
Perpetual Cadenza A (for an "stable" A)
Oliv Gold-Plated E mittel

Full Cadenza set vs the above-same exact weight (21.8kg vs 21.8kg-Eudoxa plus most medium Es should be a bit lighter. Tricolore all heavy GDA a bit more tension.)

Already quite stable, without heavy playing due to being busy. Just stretching them a lot normally. A and E obviously there already, D is doing great, G is almost there. One could already play actual pieces of music on all of them, with minor re-tunings on the G&D. So it really is not a big deal... IMHO.

I like the brilliance of the set with the Cadenza A. The Oliv A, whichbsounds great, is a bit brighter and less smooth on high positions, but the Cadenza feels a bit like gut up there, witha bit more smoothness like many Pirastro synthetics. However it os a very clear-speaking A. The Eudoxa 14 is powerful, full, and clear. I also cannot say it is worse than the Cadenza, but since this thread highlights its instability, I wanted to try a non-gut core A to match with the new Olivs as a possible alternative.

For Mr. Bo and others interested in this rather niche project, I must say that yes, the Cadenza A is an excellent match with the aforementioned Oliv strings, and given the hint of smoothness at the highest positions, it is likely to match well with Eudoxa G&D, which tend to have an strong, full tone but a bit less direct than the Oliv I am now using. Both are different flavors of gut. Eudoxa are not too expensive-relative to Oliv, Infield Pi, and others-which is always good. I do not think Eudoxa are inferior to Oliv just because they are more affordable. A violin may prefer the Eudoxa more, and they are also lower tension.

That said these Oliv are really excellent, and the whole tone is quite even. Surprised the G/D 16.25 is so "powerful" as it's "light" in tension. There's no strange tonality from D to synthetic A-just imagine even more brilliant and complex Perpetual Cadenza G&Ds. I find the complete tonal flavor very, very addictive-edgy/smooth gut sound (Tricolore is edgier; a "raw" feel even with their wound gut strings-Eudoxa fuller and beautiful, less intense on the higher overtones. Overall "power" is based on bowing technique, but all are "powerful" in my view. Disagree with all these reviewers that claim that gut tone is weaker? Agree to disagree, never intend to offend. Some violins may sound better one way or another, but it's the black and white statements which I find problematic-gut/synthetic always is "blank".)

So yes, gut core users, do try this Cadenza Perpetual A, which is not too heavy and has a very pleasing, clear, "loud" tone with a hint of smoothness and fullness. It is a really good synthetic option as a set, and may be an "stable gut core" on your setup. Not as bright as Oliv S, not as full as the Eudoxa A, but many good tonal and practical qualities to it. Not tempted to try steel As again after this, though I like their tone relative to the E strings.

Be well and stay healthy-hope the above is useful to someone out there reading now or years after. Will update if I find out they did not work for me after all, but it seems this combination will work out quite well.

August 7, 2022, 4:49 PM · Adalberto - this sounds promising. I have a Cadenza A in the mail and will try it out with my usual setup which is Oliv stiff G, Oliv silver D and platinum E.
I have been playing with Eudoxa A this spring (with the above mentioned other strings) and had no problems with it. No unraveling and the tuning stability was tolerable. But not near as stable as the D and G. I have a Passione solo A on now and it is not more stable than the Eudoxa. But I think it is a better match with my other strings.
August 7, 2022, 6:49 PM · Mr. Bo,

I still love the combination, though of course they are all quite new. Very deep tone, very clear and quite brilliant. Very alluring overall, one just wants to keep testing what the strings can or can't do. Though it's tough to beat gut sonically-and in feel-I remember that the Oliv A used to have a bright tone that clashed very slightly with the relative warmth of the Gold/Aluminum wound D (of course there would be even more contrast with a pure gut A or an steel A, so it was never a big issue-and some prefer this "unevenness".) On my violin, the switch from D to Cadenza A is natural/seamless-a very similar tonal signature, with neither string overpowering the other. Though of course your violin may think differently!

The Eudoxa 14 is (IMHO) excellent-this Cadenza A is just 0.3kp heavier, but I assume you have also used Gold Label A in your lifetime, as well as the Oliv A.That is probably how the Cadenza feels under the fingers, with a bit more bowing resistance. The tension is still relatively low, and feels quite comfortable and pliable.

Wanted to add that I do remember utterly loving the Silver Oliv D, but got addicted to aluminum wound Ds feel and general "tone" along the way. The Oliv Stiff Gold Aluminum D would not work for me, though, as it's heavy and uncharacteristically unwieldy for a gut string. The mass added by the gold windings is very noticeable-it adds to the "myth" and sound of the Oliv violin set, but makes articulate left hand work much more difficult-IME-than what I want it to be. The regular at 16.25 feels and sounds much better than a 16.5 stiff D I used a few years ago. I feel I could only use Oliv Stiff if it's just the G. The regular Gold/Aluminum D nearly matches its Silver D peer in tension, and I ***very*** much prefer it over the stiff D.

(On the Cadenzas themselves-if the Perpetual Cadenza set had an Aluminum D option,they would be the perfect synthetic string set available, *IMO*. But even with Silver D as its only option, I would choose the Cadenza over many famous synthetics with good aluminum wound Ds. Hoping it never gets discontinued! I want to try to keep using this A with gut strings moving forwards, if it continues to work this well.)

Hope I do not make you lose $27-28 USD! May you enjoy your new A string tryout.

August 9, 2022, 10:32 AM · If stiffness is an issue, I found that the Cadenza was much preferable to the Cadenza Solo-- which was a bit louder but offered much less flexibility.
Right now, I installed a Tricolore set on an instrument that doesn't like too much tension. Light A and D, medium G, and the standard E. I might experiment with the E by trying Eudoxa wound or some other candidate. The difference between light and medium G is not overwhelming, but might justify another experiment.
All in all, though, it feels much happier than it did with Rondos.
August 9, 2022, 2:44 PM · Hello Mr. Stephen,

What did you mean by Cadenza Solo? Did you mean you preferred the original Perpetual A over the Perpetual Cadenza A? I find the latter very relaxed compared to many synthetics! The 5.4kp tension seems to not be too annoying. For now my combination, described above, is working above expectations. Sometimes the Cadenza is just a tiny bit brighter, but it still matches the Oliv D well-especially at very high position playing! The synthetic A never gets drowned out, nor overpowers the rest of the strings, though it is not tame. The sound almost a week in is truly amazing overall-on my violin at least. The D and A are fully stable, the G is 90% up there, but after 10-15 minutes of practice very little tuning needs be done.

(Or perhaps you meant Passione Solo A vs Passione A? I would rather use the Eudoxa 14 than either! Nothing against Passione, they do not sound bad at all. But may as well go with Eudoxa 14-IMHO-if I remain using wound gut for the A. Despite the complaints in this thread, I never found it overly unreliable, much less unplayable.)

I admit that both the synthetic set of Perpetual Cadenza and my own Oliv/Cadenza combination above are merely "low" in tension, but not very low. I could go lower with all Eudoxa and IME, lower/thinner gauge is not equivalent to "worse". Some violins, like perhaps yours, love low tension strings. I surely prefer low tension myself, within reason.

Never had a bad experience with Tricolore- they have their own sound and are great strings. I would try lower tensions in the future if I use them again, as the heavy tension combination I used last time was easy to play, but heavier than my current setup.

Edited: August 9, 2022, 2:51 PM · I am sorry-- I meant Passione and for some reason I merged it with the mention of Cadenzas up above.

As for the Cadenza, I didn't have a really strong reaction to them either way.

August 9, 2022, 3:12 PM · I assumed as much, since you were discussing only gut strings. Thanks so much.

I did use Passione A for either Eudoxa or Oliv in the past, but forgot if it was a regular one, its gauge if it was, or if it was the Solo.

Since people used to-and perhaps some still do-use several synthetics with Oliv/Eudoxa strings in years past (Synoxa, Larsen, Eudoxa-Aricore, etc.) I thought it good to mention a "modern" option that could work for those few people who still want to use an alternate, "stable" synthetic A that would be closer to gut in feel and sound than the norm. I do sincerely like them very, very much, and hope they do not go out of production soon-I fear the Pirastro "It's Just Business" Axe!

Take care, and happy playing.

August 10, 2022, 1:03 AM · I play with Eudoxa's quite a bit and have a violin with them on right now. I look at playing with gut strings as a feisty argument followed by make up.... If I can, open up my case to allow my violin acclimate to the humidity and temp for awhile before tuning up the first time. Then I warm up with my usual scales, arp..., tune up again, then play a few pieces to get really warmed up, then do a final tuning and we're ready to go. One thing I also do that I know is often frowned upon is that I give the G, D, & A strings a little tug to stretch them out and help eliminate any slack while I tune them up the first time. On my primary violin, I use Obligatos with a Eudoxa wound E. At the end of the day, synthetics are so much more stable.
August 10, 2022, 7:24 PM · I really love the sound and feel of Eudoxa strings. I have one of my fiddles strung with them. I have tried the Cadenza A. But it seems to me that it does not blend well with the Eudoxas. It does not feel or sound very gutsy and it is not as smooth, clear and brilliant as PIs or EPs which I have on my other fiddles. To me, it seems the Cadenza is trying to bridge the gap between gut and synthetic but doesn't quite do a great job at either. Oddly, my Eudoxa A is rather stable. But to be fair, I only play it at home. I prefer my other fiddles for playing out.
Edited: August 10, 2022, 8:33 PM · Mr. Alexander,

Could be-I have only tried the aforementioned Oliv with the Perpetual Cadenza A, finding them a great match. Perhaps it is not the same with the Eudoxa, our preferences differ, or our violins are very different.

I prefer a full Cadenza set over, say, EP, because one (or perhaps just me, at least) can modulate the sound much more, they still are rather brilliant and edgy, IMHO possess a richer frequency response, and are "powerful", considering their low-ish tension. They may not feel as easy under the fingers as the Eudoxa (nor do the Olivs!), but compared to most synthetics, indeed they are super easy to play.

Did the Cadenza A got drowned out by the Eudoxa, or viceversa? Or was it a matter of not liking the transition from D to A?

Other strings one could try for a wound gut, stable "replacement" string could be the Warchal Amber (have only tried the E) or the Warchal Timbre A, which sounds great but is a bit more tense than the Cadenza. I am happy with the PC A, though, so I need not try these.

If a player is used to modern synthetics and already likes their tension with their violins, then the Cadenza may make less sense to them. For me, they are a nice rarity as few manufacturers offer low tension strings for their synthetic product lines. Cadenza beat the Dominant light I used to like for synthetics, also over EP and many others.

Note that I do like the "EP tone"! But it is not something I would pursue anymore with the current options in the market.

I did also not find the Eudoxa gauge 14 too unstable at all-but cannot just deny a few people have had issues with at least a number of samples out there.

Thanks for letting me know your experience with the Cadenza A and the Eudoxas. (Were the latter stiff or regulars?)

Edited: August 11, 2022, 7:49 AM · Hi Mr. Adalberto,
I appreciate your response. I think the Perpetual Cadenzas may be a fine string match for the right violin. I acquired this most recent violin about a year ago. It is 1920s European fiddle and I had it fully reconditioned by my trusted maker. It came out beautifully. But it just did not feel or sound “right”. I tried several different string sets and eventually came to the Eudoxas which you had mentioned at the time. With a small sound post adjustment and these strings, the instrument changed character completely and came to life. I am using the regular Eudoxa G 15-3/4, D 16-3/4, A 13-3/4 with a PI E. I have noticed slightly more tuning instability in the G than the A. But I don’t consider it to be a big problem, just a minor inconvenience. For me, the Cadenza A seemed a bit to smooth and brilliant in pairing with the Eudoxas. The Eudoxa A for me just has that bite and grit and soulful character that make playing gut so enjoyable. Eudoxas are so soft and easy to tune it is not that big a trade off for me in the practice room. That being said, I still take my other fiddles which are strung with synthetics to orchestra and quartet. Perhaps one day I will muster up the courage to take my Eudoxas out in public:)
August 11, 2022, 10:13 AM · Mr. Alexander,

It could be your European violin now sounds better with a full set of Eudoxa! That is fine. Even the medium set is very comfortable and easy to play, and very light on the top of the instrument. Your instrument perhaps is reacting adversely to the Cadenza A relative to the Eudoxa G&D.

In the case of the Perpetual Cadenza A, it is used above as a compromise, to eliminate the instability an Eudoxa A could have with some players during certain environment changes. Probably all three of Gold Label A, Eudoxa A, and Oliv A sound better than the Cadenza, but the Cadenza A *may* sound and play better than some popular A alternatives to gut options that have been used in the past-that is why I was recommending it. It does sound pretty good to me, though perhaps not as a nice as the Eudoxa A, nor as vibrant and penetrating as the Oliv A. Gold Label A is also on the bright side, so likely less smooth than the Cadenza A, but gut strings play great on the highest registers. The Cadenza is very, very good up there (surprisingly so), but perhaps not as open-sounding. Still clear, and not a muddy mess as some other famous synthetics can get to be. IME, it is "better" than a Synoxa A or the Eudoxa-Aricore A, but it could also be my violin "likes it" very much.

I will consider your experience next time I use Eudoxa rather than Oliv. Thanks for letting all of us know! Happy playing.

Edited: August 19, 2022, 1:07 PM · Just wanted to pop in and say that I've tried the Corelli Solea A string with a regular Eudoxa D and G and it blended marvelously! On paper it has the same tension as the Eudoxa 13.75 A, and in practice it sounds and plays much better than the old Eudoxa alternatives, keeping the great ease of playing that the Eudoxa strings so without being overly dull.

I tried the Cadenza A and found like Adalberto did that it worked well with an Oliv D and G. In the end though, I'm just not a fan of the Oliv D strings. It did seem to demand a bit more weight than the Eudoxa D and G strings wanted.

It's not a common string but I highly recommend the Solea A with the Eudoxas.

August 19, 2022, 5:01 PM · Mr. Kruer,

Thanks so much-I know you tinker around with strings more than most of us will ever do. Frankly surprised you had already tried the Cadenza with Olivs, but nothing would stop you, I suppose. :)

I will consider this Solea A when I use Eudoxa, though of course I like the Cadenza A with the Olivs. Seems like the Solea is another synthetic set aimed at providing good tone with low tension. Have not tried them yet. The Cadenza A is still matching the Olivs quite well.

The Oliv D is perhaps the most tense wound gut D string in the market, whether silver wound or the original, non-stiff Gold-Aluminum wound I am using. It does have a very robust tone at the lightest tension, which I am using-the stiff/rigid D is really just too much *for me*-it may work for some others! Since you prefer even less tension than myself, I can see why you very much prefer the simpler and more affordable regular aluminum wound Eudoxa D. The well-loved and relatively frequently used Oliv Silver D at its lightest is 0.1kp heavier than the lightest regular Oliv D, so in theory my set is "low tension", but only in relation to modern synthetics (same tension as the Cadenza set.) No wolves, just like with the Cadenza. I do understand even this light D provides more bow resistance, and the Eudoxa plays faster as I remember it. Though the Oliv D is more stable pitchwise than the Eudoxa IME (meaning as you play and warm up the string, the pitch moves much more less-not what happens when the string is on the case; you very much understand this.)

I still think the Eudoxa set is amazing if one is open to wound gut strings. Oliv is just another take on these type of strings-seems like the first attempt by Pirastro at an "Evah Pirazzi" for wound gut in theory, save they do sound and perhaps play better, especially over time (for synthetics, the Cadenza D is also faster than the Oliv, but is silver wound. :( For my preference, I would only use the Cadenza as a set of synthetics-GDA-than gut G, and Cadenza D&A.) But as we've discussed, projection and "power" goes "deeper" than just trying to tense up our violins with more and more tension.

(On a separate, general note, it has been two weeks plus two days since my all-new strings change, and the new gold plated E hasn't whistled even once so far. I know they do whistle at times, it just has not happened. The Olivs have fully "stabilized", as much as they allow. They do not go out of tune all the time, as many claim-though of course I am not using the Oliv A on purpose. My "sound project" is meant to be all Olivs along with the Cadenza A. In short, do not be afraid of gut strings-try them sometime if your teacher allows for it... I know some teachers are more strict in these string matters.)

Will try to inform myself more on the Soleas.

Happy playing!

August 19, 2022, 8:32 PM · Mr. Kruer,

Did you also use the Solea A with Oliv? Tempted to use the medium when the Cadenza gets too old. Even Solea medium is quite light for synthetic As. I suspect the Cadenza may still be the better match, but I honestly have zero idea about the Solea sound (the claimed "bright rendering" is intriguing.)

I do not like the marketing-not much effort into it? They do not even specify the windings for their strings. The strings themselves may be brilliant, but marketing appears to be the lowest budget possible. Whereas Pirastro tends to oversell, the Solea marketing team appears to be too timid about these strings (Pirastro/Corelli representatives-no offense intended.)

August 20, 2022, 12:51 PM · Hello, I did not use try the Solea A with the Oliv set although I was using a Perpetual Cadenza with Oliv. I think the Solea A would work with Olivs, but for me the Oliv D always needs a firm weight and the Cadenza A takes a bit more weight, so it me might blend better with Oliv than Solea. The Solea does not like too much pressure, similar to the Eudoxa A and set, and allows you to bow very close to the bridge, similar to the other Eudoxas - one of the only synthetic As like this, in my experience
August 20, 2022, 7:24 PM · Thanks, Mr. Kruer, just as I imagined. Apologies if it seemed too obvious.

Apologies to Ms. Nuuska for taking her thread in another direction. Hopefully the pure gut A string worked out well.

August 21, 2022, 6:06 PM · Mr. Adelberto,
What are the playing and sound differences between Eudoxa and Tricolore? I’m curious to try the pure gut. Is this a worthwhile endeavor? Are there many professional performers who still use gut strings?

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