Extender pieces for Wolf Forte Secondo?

Edited: July 10, 2021, 6:57 PM · Anyone know where I can lay my hands on the extender pieces for the Wolf Forte? I know they came with my SR - but I can't find the box. I need them pretty badly (related to my current thread about possible numbered days with the violin). I will go to a machinist if I need to to have something custom made, but figured someone here would know if anyone does.

Someone once told me the Kun extra-long feet would fit the Wolf Forte, but it's very obvious they won't as the circumference of the screws are quite different. The extra-long Kun feet/screw is no longer than my Wolf Forte feet anyway.

Edited: The Wolf feet has 2 parts which I did not initially see. It does indeed accept the Kun foot.

Replies (47)

Edited: July 7, 2021, 7:28 PM · I have Kun feet on both my Wolf Forte-Secundo and my Wolf Forte-Primo shoulder rests (which Wolf Forte are you using?); there was no problem removing the Wolf feet and putting in Kun feet. The longer Kun screw measures 2", and the foot adds another 1/2 ".
If you Google:
longer Kun feet for shoulder rest
you can find numerous sources for Kun feet, including Amazon. They all fit my Wolf's just fine!!! I think there is one extra-large KUN foot sold at SHAR that looks like it would not fit a Wolf--that might be the one you happened on, and it is NOT the standard Kun long foot.
I gave up on Wolf shoulder rests (they kept slipping off my instrument) after I tried the Comford shoulder rest, which is designed differently, and does not slip off at all, ever. I got it at SHAR, which allows you to return a shoulder rest within 30 days if it does not suit you. I wish I had started with the Comford, but I am glad I found it after all; can't figure out why no one has mentioned it here...???? I use it with an extra-high Wave chin rest, and have an Impressionist rubber mold to add on for extra height (long neck).

Edited: July 7, 2021, 8:06 PM · I love my Wolf Forte, gave up on the Kun. The screw on my Forte feet are much larger in diameter than my Kun feet (which I still have). The extra long Kun feet I have are the same height as my Wolf Forte. I've not had a problem with my Wolf feet falling off while playing, my Kun did that all...of..the...time...plus it doesn't get tall enough.

It sounds like we're talking about different shoulder rests entirely, but we're not - so either Wolf or Kun has changed their design. I've a picture with both legs side by side, if I could figure out how to post it :-)

Edited: July 7, 2021, 8:15 PM · I just put the extra long Kun foot on my Secondo and it adds about a half inch of height. The Secondo foot is in two parts, a large diameter part that goes in the fitting in the rest and a smaller diameter screw with the rubber foot on the end which screws into that. It is that piece that has the same screw diameter and pitch as the Kun screw though there is a slight difference in pitch so you will only be able to screw the Kun foot in a few turns. The other adjustment part of the mix is where you put the feet on the instrument. With my problem I have to put the right hand foot (while looking at the back of the instrument about an inch below the top of the lower bout. The left hand foot goes toward the bottom of the left side of the lower bout. This turns out to be a crucial adjustment to me and too far one way or another either makes it uncomfortable because the rest then wants to slip off the shoulder or it adversely affects the tilt of the instrument. It wasn't until recently that I found the video from Animato Strings called "magic posture" that shows how to properly bend the Secondo so it is truly supportive.

I still do have more of a steep bow angle on the E string than I would like but this is perhaps the best I can do at this stage.

Edited: July 7, 2021, 10:11 PM · I never have owned any KUN shoulder rest. I own a Wolf Forte-Primo and a Wolf Forte-Secundo shoulder rest, both with KUN feet I put on. I bought the KUN feet because KUN makes a longer replacement foot than Wolf. Katherine, did you Google
longer KUN feet for shoulder rest
Look at those feet online; the long one is longer than a Wolf foot; it is 2.5"
Ann, is that the same size as your long KUN foot?
July 7, 2021, 8:33 PM · I neglected to mention that my luthier had the extra long foot in stock. I suspect most violin shops would have these.
Edited: July 7, 2021, 8:45 PM · Erin - I already had the Kun SR with an extra-long foot. Thankfully I found it pretty easily :-)

Ann - I finally saw what both you and Erin were talking about - and the location of that second screw. My foot on the chest side is now .75 inch taller as I could only screw it in a little. There is still a fair angle, I just hadn't realized how steep my bowing angle was.

I don't usually practice on Thursdays to give my body a break - but I think Friday will be my "rest day" this week so I can give this a shot tomorrow. I'm very curious what impact this may have on my left hand as the angle is quite different - though it still may be more steep than it needs to be. Or not, time will tell.

Agin, thanks Erin and Ann!

July 7, 2021, 10:01 PM · You are welcome. You should see my SR with the extra long foot and all the bending I had to do, it's truly ugly and bizarre. We should have an ugly shoulder rest contest maybe but I have unfair advantage.
Edited: July 7, 2021, 10:25 PM · This is my latest (and last) shoulder rest; there are both medium and high versions.
Edited: July 8, 2021, 6:26 AM · Thanks Erin!

Ann, I'm very fortunate in that the shape of my Wolf Forte fits my build well, the pad fully conforms to my body with no adjustment. My teacher said he hasn't seen many that fit so well. I'll see if the significantly higher treble side changes that. I do have narrow, very sloping shoulders that adds to the fun with my tall neck.

Edited: July 8, 2021, 9:51 AM · I hope it works out, or you find a way to hang in there (Biber's Passacaglia awaits...)
If you still need more height under your chin, there is still the Impressionist chinrest pad-- sounds like you haven't tried that yet. Several posters have recommended that one not rely totally on the shoulder rest to raise the instrument closer to the jaw, but also to add height to the chinrest by getting a higher chinrest and/or adding the Impressionist rubber pad; when heated in warm water, the Impressionist rubber molds its top to the shape of your jaw, and its bottom to the shape of your chinrest.
Edited: July 8, 2021, 2:47 PM · My chinrest is perfect and my neck is happy (my Tall Wave 2 fills the space nicely). The problem is now getting my violin at the right angle without raising the shoulder side but getting the chest side high enough - and I mean high ...hopefully I've solved it, time will tell. I'm more hopeful than I was! This is just so much about differences in in how we are built. I'm really hoping this is the cause of my recent problem.
July 8, 2021, 4:34 PM · Raising the chest side can involve rotating the violin along the plane parallel to the floor so that the scroll is pointing more to the right than before. This often has the effect of putting the chest leg of the SR onto firmer territory, that is, bone rather than flesh. Another thing to do is to adjust the SR as it is on the back of the instrument, moving one leg toward the tailpiece and the other in the opposite direction until you reach the "oh yeah, this feels better" point.
Edited: July 8, 2021, 6:25 PM · Ann - the problem is the angle of my instrument, it was far too steep. My neck is very sensitive to where the SR is on the back of the instrument but will try that. I just tried a 10 minute experiment and my shoulder is still cranky from yesterday. I'll try again tomorrow night.

Part of the problem is...ahem...GETTING the SR onto firmer territory. I can't be more direct than that on a public forum, it's just how I'm built and it may not be possible. I need to experiment more, but I also need see if I can calm my shoulder down first. If I don't then it's hard to say where the discomfort is from.

A shoulder injection might help, but I try very hard not to do that.

July 8, 2021, 6:55 PM · Catherine, I'm assuming you've already tried moving the SR closer to the endbutton, so it ends up more on the upper ribcage/collarbone?

If you want, feel free to email me about your specific issue along with some pictures of your current setup. I've helped many adults through injuries before. This is part of my research for developing my own SR.

July 9, 2021, 5:14 PM · Erik - I can only move the SR so far up before it starts falling off my instrument :-)

I'm seeing my shoulder ortho in a week or so to make certain I'm not overlooking anything (he is extremely conservative). I'll take a few shots (as well as I can as I live alone) and send you an email later this weekend. My teach couldn't find anything wrong outside of the steep violin angle. I appreciate your thoughts.

July 9, 2021, 6:10 PM · The steep angle of the violin is usually a result of the shoulder lacking depth front to back. And neck position relative to the shoulder. I have both, a bonus, yay.
Edited: July 9, 2021, 6:27 PM · Yes Ann, I've a tall (and fused) neck, and thin, sloping shoulders, the left one is quite arthritic & the right one has basically been reconstructed. Yay me, hah! And there isn't much distance between neck and the tip of my shoulder.

My teacher is no expert on how to adjust for such things, and really, I don't expect him to be. He was a high school music teacher for many years. I need a physio who understands musicians but I've not found any locally.

July 9, 2021, 6:33 PM · What a teacher CAN do is tell when something is good enough and we have to then work with it as it is. I'm finally understanding this at age 65.
July 9, 2021, 6:55 PM · Have you ever tried the comford cradle? A lot of people with narrow sloped shoulders like it along with whatever chin rest they like to fit their neck and jaw. Two people from the school where I did my undergrad use them along with a SAS chin rest of the 2nd tallest height of 32mm (they also have long necks) after I helped them with their setup. One was already using the cradle before I helped them and only needed a different chin rest while the other needed a completely different setup. I think they were using a mach one shoulder rest with sponges attached to it and some chin rest I can't remember the model of, but I think it was a side mount.
Edited: July 9, 2021, 8:21 PM · Christian - you are not the first to suggest that SR. I love my Wolf Forte as it's the first I've found that molds to my body so well (the pad) and I can get the shoulder side so low along with a quite high chest side. Even higher now with the Kun foot...

I use the tallest version of the Wave 2, it fits me well. I had a video call with the maker of the Wave CR, that was very helpful.

I learned the Comford Cradle is not not adjustable in any way which makes me shy away from it. At more than twice the price of my Wolf, that's an expensive experiment. Still - I might order one from Shar as they have that return policy - after my Ortho visit...

And things were less painful today (short, easy session) after taking yesterday off and using the higher Wolf Forte (with the Kun foot added to it). Not an overnight magic bullet, but better. Tomorrow will be the real test.

July 10, 2021, 12:35 AM · Yeah, that's a downside of the Comford Cradle. If it isn't immediately comfortable you can't really adjust it. I'm glad the Wolf and Wave 2 work for you and that you're starting to feel some relief with the Kun legs. If you do decide to try the cradle after all let us know how it goes.
Edited: July 10, 2021, 5:11 AM · Catherine, your problem is one of the main reasons I'm working on the invention that I am. It will allow you to put the SR where you want it (even far back enough to approximate the comford's placement) without it ever falling off. And unlike the comford, it will retain the adjustability factor.

In the meantime though, you might try experimenting with putting it back farther by moving the feet closer together, and then using rubber bands to prevent it from falling off. I have also found that replacing the feet of the wolf with more secure ones, such as everest, is kind of a necessity if you want it to stay on the violin in the less secure positions.

Edit: in reading back, it sounds like you're already using the extended Kun foot, so you may disregard the above advice about changing feet!

Edited: July 10, 2021, 10:44 AM · Thanks Eric - keep an eye on your email for a few way overly serious pictures :-) It's hard to take pictures with the phone when trying to hold the violin! Perhaps you will see something obvious I've missed.
July 10, 2021, 11:18 AM · You can take a picture of yourself on the phone by using the camera timer. Set the phone on your music stand and set the timer.
July 10, 2021, 11:22 AM · Nice idea Ann, didn't know about that. If Eric wants to see more than I'll do that.
July 10, 2021, 4:34 PM · Interestingly I just looked again at my instrument angle and decided it was the same with the extended Wolfe leg and the extra long Kuhn. Just shows there are other factors involved than the length of the legs.
Edited: July 10, 2021, 5:06 PM · Re Comford cradle: I have tried two minor adjustments with the Comford: first, I put a towel between my chest and the rest, and second, I tried setting the violin at different angles to find the most comfortable location for the rest on me. For some reason, the Comford is much more secure and easy-fitting than anything else (including Korfker) on my long neck and non-existent shoulders. While Comford is more expensive than some other rests, consider that 1) SHAR will have always have another sale, and 2) a Korfker shoulder rest & cradle is $1200.80 but you can get the rest alone for only $351.19. P.S. The Korfker did not work for me.
Edited: July 10, 2021, 6:57 PM · At Eric's suggestion I'm going the other direction, back to a much shorter SR in order to get my short arms in a better playing angle that will, hopefully, be kinder to my shoulder. Crossing my fingers this won't impact my neck.

My VLM Diamond is back in use, and at a shorter height then before. The next few days will show the results of the test, but it just proves there are many factors involved here than just one. It is quite secure, almost too much!

I will say that I moved from the Diamond to the Wolf Forte for a reason, but in retrospect I didn't really give it a chance with my tall Wave 2, I had a custom height Wave 2 then (the maker just switched them at no charge, I did not expect that)

Edited: July 10, 2021, 9:23 PM · Catherine, I sure hope you and Erik find a solution! Keep plugging along! Keep us informed, as there may be further help to offer you here. I want you to get to Biber!!
Edited: July 11, 2021, 5:34 PM · I do as well, at least the first page :-) My teacher just shakes his head when I mention it. I'm unsure he can actually play it, but at my level that doesn't really matter. It's a quite advanced piece and light-years beyond me, but long-term goals are good! If I get there, even better.
July 11, 2021, 2:01 PM · Catheryn, That's the way I feel about the Meditation from Thais. My teacher says, "We'll get there," but I remain skeptical.
July 11, 2021, 5:30 PM · I am hopeful, though it's well beyond me currently. This is assuming my arthritis doesn't force a move to the hammered dulcimer by then. Hmmm, somehow I don't think Biber would translate well to that instrument.

Meditation from Thais is also beautiful, may that day come before you think!

Edited: July 11, 2021, 5:36 PM · Also, getting my scroll down to a far more reasonable angle has done wonders already. Sticking with the tall Wave 2 and the Wolf...at the very lowest setting. The Diamond just didn't work at all, not once it got low enough. So no need for the Wolf extenders, and to get used to the tilt. And perhaps find short Kun feet to have a more secure grip.
July 11, 2021, 5:44 PM · SHAR has a variety of KUN replacement feet; here is a short foot;
July 11, 2021, 6:11 PM · Erin, Those are for the Kuhn Voce and are a sligthly different shape. I believe they would fit but...
July 11, 2021, 6:18 PM · ?but what?
July 11, 2021, 6:18 PM · I'll check our local store first, I know they have the long feet, they may have the short. It looks like Shar does have the short regular feet.

I'm thankful I started this thread, the help is much appreciated!

Edited: July 12, 2021, 4:41 PM · The second day after lowering my SR significantly and the pain is gone! I'm being cautious still, obviously it didn't heal overnight - and I certainly won't be able to polish all of my assignments for this week's lesson but my teacher will understand. I am extremely thankful that it appears to have been my setup aggravating my arthritis rather than deterioration. I practiced 30 minutes this morning before lunch, and just did another 45 minutes - which is enough for today. Very thankful for the helpful advice! As long as my neck decides it's happy (and I am still using the tall Wave 2), I should be good for now.

BTW, the short VLM Diamond foot also fits my Wolf Forte - I'll just get another one so they will match ;-)

July 12, 2021, 5:13 PM · Great! Progress is being made!
July 12, 2021, 7:41 PM · Glad to see my advice worked, Catherine! Honestly, the biggest change we needed to make was just bringing your scroll down. The shoulder rest height was a factor in making that easier, but I do believe that was the main thing.

You should also notice that lots of things are easier to play with the new position, as an additional bonus to the pain relief. For example, vibrato will end up being more relaxed.

July 12, 2021, 8:29 PM · The new position feels a bit odd but good at the same time :) my teacher has given good feedback on my vibrato, but it's been hard to use more than occasionally, perhaps that was why.

Unsure why my teacher didn't catch this, but we were limited to Zoom lessons for 15 months. We only returned to in person in June, with alternating Zoom/in person lessons going forward. It has to be hard to really see everything on Zoom...

July 12, 2021, 8:39 PM · Not every teacher is great at overall posture and setup adjustments. I actually consider that my specialty since I've taught so many beginners over the years (and since I've struggled with my own setup so much).
July 13, 2021, 6:05 AM · Erik - that makes sense. I've observed this about him before but he is so good at other things!
July 18, 2021, 6:03 PM · Amazing the difference setup makes. Between July 11 and several days ago I went from experiencing agonizing left shoulder pain to...none at all! I had really thought my arthritis was detoriating, but not this time. I'm coming back cautiously so I don't aggravate it as it's still healing but Eric nailed the problem, this is a public thank you!

July 18, 2021, 7:46 PM · That's the best news yet! :)
and thank you, Erik!
Edited: July 18, 2021, 8:19 PM · Yay! Wish I could get fixed but I'm afraid not, my spinal curvature pretty much locks things in.
July 18, 2021, 9:52 PM · That's awesome, Catherine. I'm really glad to hear it!

Can you explain more about your problem, Ann?

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