Yet, Another Shoulder Rest - Glued On
Now you can find Ray Chen's glued on SR on Giora Schmidt's site. Can it sound better than the korfker? Markov resonant?
Dear god, why...
I thought it was suction cups.
Is something wrong with my calendar? Is today April 1st?
you can peel off the sr after playing
Ray Chen is very convinced about it on his strad. And, well, it's definitely in need of a custom made case. I personally can't imagine how it wouldn't damage the varnish when removed, but what do I know...
I'm surprise Nippon foundation allow R Chen use that glued sr on their Stads
Publicity hype or hoax?
Or you can just buy my invention and your current shoulder rest won't move. No glue needed :D
"Included is a bottle of the special glue as well as a custom elastic band with non-slip silicone rings to attach to the back corners if you prefer not to use the adhesive."
Somehow I doubt players who just bought a $130 shoulder rest will want to have elastic bands on their violin.
Is this glue similar to the adhesive you see on the artino shoulder pad things?
A glued-on shoulder rest! For me, that is on a par with something I once saw in an Irish music session - a soundpost that was secured on a screw through the back of a violin. The owner, apparently pleased with his handiwork - a neatly done job I must admit - said he had got fed up with his soundpost forever slipping or falling over, so he had devised his own solution. If it was a valuable instrument, which in this case it clearly wasn't, I guess such damage to the back might be easier to deal with than glue damage to the varnish of a high-end violin.
Erik wrote, "Somehow I doubt players who just bought a $130 shoulder rest will want to have elastic bands on their violin."
I had to look it up; I fail to see how four feet glued to the back plate can have less influence on the vibrations of that plate than feet attached to the rim of the plate. Even if it is "Precision laser cut" it is claimed to be completely hand made. And this is a bit of a snake-oil warning: "designed according to Fibonacci’s Golden Ratio" - it must be good then. The feet - "custom cut Portuguese cork" - look like sawn-off wine corks.
I definitely feel like there's a lot of marketing hype here, but who can blame them? I've actually wondered for years when Ray Chen's SR would finally be sold, but had always assumed it used suction cups.
A bit more info - 16:10 into the "Ray Chen: Question and Answer Session" video - https://www.violinist.com/blog/laurie/201510/17133/
Reminds me a bit of the Markov SR that is also a flat piece of wood with feet that sit on the back of the instrument. I fail to see how either would be comfortable for any body-type or more resonant than the traditional clip-on style. I would never in a million years consider gluing something onto my violins.
The point of a pressure-sensitive adhesive is that it is chemically non-reactive with the surface. The degree of stickiness or tack can be adjusted through rational variation in the chemistry of the adhesive. This is how we get things like Post-It notes, and there are countless applications for which adhesives have been carefully optimized.
Thanks Paul. Now I got it.
One would hope, Paul. How are we to know what the components of the glue are, though? I think they're assuming that because Ray Chen uses it on his strad, then people are automatically going to trust it.
Bo, my session friend who swaps the pegs is a folk musician and apparently rarely needs to change the E, which is probably why his system works for him. Anyway, the point is that he finds it easier to install a new A, and installing a new E isn't a problem when on the A peg.
In addition to the chemical properties of the adhesive (which will determine if a chemical reaction between it and the varnish occurs), I would also suggest that one should consider the mechanical force required to remove the rest.
The untold secret behind this shoulder rest is, that it comes together with a special customized instrument case. Of course the case-design also follows the rule of Fibonacci’s Golden Ratio.
Guys it's not glued with Elmer's....
One of the problems that this product suffers from is that the textual description of it on the sales page I linked to above, does not state anywhere that the glue is low tack and can be peeled off. Further, unless you scroll down, you don't see the video - and it's several minutes into the video before it becomes clear. Initially, I didn't see the video and worked off the text I read - which is why I concluded that the seller was really advocating glueing the SR to the violin. The mention of the elastic band actually reinforced in my head the idea that the recommended installation method was glue.
The fact that he showed that there were "no marks" on the back of his violin after one application means nothing to me. Maybe there were no marks after one use, but what about after years of doing the same thing every day? I'm not saying he's wrong necessarily, but I'd need WAY more data to be convinced, as well as the endorsement of a reputable luthier...and even then the idea of gluing and then peeling something off the back of my violin would give me the shivers.
The "glue" is not even necessarily an additional substance that is added to apply the SR to the violin. It can simply be the surface chemistry and intrinsic tack of the material itself.
However it is attached, the bond can't be too strong, or they'd never allow it on the strad. So I can just imagine it tilting on its legs during a particularly impassioned moment, hitting the back table with a SMACK like an axe...
I think this idea is a prime example of why marketing is so important for products to succeed. If they had gone into long, technical detail about the precise chemistry involved and why it has no long term effects on varnish (along with a video showing a repeated-use situation), then it would have a much higher chance of succeeding.
The problem with explaining the surface chemistry is that in the process of simplifying it for a lay audience, inaccuracies creep into to the description. And then it's not "truth in advertising" any more. Two things to remember about all synthetic materials such as polymers and adhesives is that (1) they're never perfectly pure, and (2) they're never indefinitely stable.
@Trevor Jennings, What did the screwed together fiddle sound like?