Two preventative measure from a former frequent traveler
With all the discussion about Covid-19 a.k.a. SARS-Co-V2 I want to add two measures that I used to avoid viral infection while traveling almost every week for Bell Labs.
We all know the obvious, wash hands, cover coughs and sneezes,...
I found that sitting on a lot of airliners (usually in the cheap seats way in the back) and dealing with a lot of people in a lot of different places I picked up two interesting tools.
Viral infections work in a predictable way they burrow into the mucus membranes in the sinus and throat and as new crops release they move on to the lungs. The key is to stop them early on. I carried a spray bottle filled with old fashioned brown Listerine - the one with alcohol. I learned how to drop the back of my tongue opening access to the throat and sprayed the Listerine directly on the back of the throat. Yeah, it stings and if there are damaged cells it really hurts. It does kill the virus that is on the surface of the mucus membranes. Yes frequent spraying is necessary in the early stages of exposure. It worked for me. Yes, it can make your mucus membranes a bit dry for a while.
I carried a second spray bottle filled with isopropyl alcohol (there was no Purel back then). I would use that whenever I needed a quick clean of my hands, or some surfaces. FWIW: Purel is only 60% alcohol the remainder being glycerin and fragrance. Alcohol is just alcohol. Yes, it can, if used to excess, dry the skin on your hands but a little hand cream fixes that.
WARNING: I shared these tips with a fellow frequent traveler at the Labs. He decided he wanted to catch the virus earlier so he sprayed the Listerine into his nose. He said he almost passed out from the pain and he totally lost his sense of smell.
DO NOT SPRAY LISTERINE INTO YOUR NOSE!
Thanks George! I believe modern hand-sanitizer gel formulations use water and a thickening agent such as poly(acrylic acid), which can give you a lot of thickening at very low concentrations. Water, of course, is cheaper than glycerol. Also note that hand sanitizers use ethanol. The MSDS always indicates less than 10% of isopropanol.
I'm volunteering for the "do nothing" control group. It's still speculation but it does seem possible that most of us will catch the virus mildly or asymptomatically and the "herd" will become immune. If that is reflected in the figures from Wuhan it means I'm about as likely to die from Covid-19 this year as I am from cardiovascular disease. Sobering thought - Trump may even have called it right!
There are indeed conflicting views. Though I find their views repugnant*, I hope the conservative think tanks
I bet if I picked up a nice meth habit, I could keep myself nicely exfoliated and virus free. Of course, I would need to buy the meth in bulk first and then design some kind of meth-dispensing safe that could not be cracked to keep my supply going. And I'd probably have to strongly lock myself in my apartment from the outside and place bars on my windows and remove all my tools from the inside of my house. Crap, and I've actually got a drop ceiling with removable tiles, so I'd probably find a way to tunnel out. Because I'm pretty crafty as it is, but on meth, I would be a jail-breaking force to be reckoned with.
Isopropyl alcohol is poisonous if ingested, duh!!
It seems like hoping the conservative think tank is correct is just hoping for more deaths and cases in China and other 3rd world countries. I have never been there myself, but as a person from Chinese descent, it does upset me that the Chinese government would say such things about the U.S. Jeewon Kim, the article, which you cited when talking about conservative beliefs seems to only have one positive thing to say, and that’s about South Korea. Your name is Korean... hmmmmm...
I am hoping for anti-viral properties of chocolate-- legal and fun :) Just had three pounds of dark delivered; it's the high point of the pandemic, so far!
Xuanyuan Liu, you misunderstand my post. I do not agree with the right, who think the US should fully open for business by April 13.
I guess I have, but you editing your post does not help you. I never called you an immigrant either. I thought wrongly that there was a little bit of prejudice in you, I also should’ve read the article with a more open mind. Learning from these countries that have contained the virus would be beneficial.
Help me with what?
Hey Jeewon, have you seen Burning? In my top 5 movies all-time. Lot of good movies coming out of South Korea the last few years.
I have other varieties of alcohol to sterilize the vocal cords. Tonight, a perfectly reasonably 2013 Bourgogne, for example.
Wow, high praise Christian! Will check it out. Thought you'd be more of a "Breaking Bad" kinda guy ;)
I've actually never seen Breaking Bad - Must be the contrarian in me, and I was probably too busy scrubbing at the time.
I am breaking dark chocolate almond bark. You guys should Google anti-viral properties of cocoa polyphenols. And, don't waste your chocolate polyphenols as a wipe...
Jeewon, in my second post I was admitting to misunderstanding you...
Erin, I've been panic-buying 85% Green & Black's chocolate bars for years now. I think I may have a problem. There's a chocolate bar called Endangered Species that frankly tastes kinda nasty - Probably all those chunks of endangered species in every bar, which, given the pangolin that got us in this mess, maybe now is not the right time to be eating exotic animals, but if you're looking for a tasty dark chocolate bar, Green & Black's is where it's at (I have not been paid for this actual testimonial, although I totally would accept payment).
Steve wrote, "I'm volunteering for the 'do nothing' control group."
So sorry to hear about your friend, Xuanyuan. I can't believe the US administration, likely taking cues, if not direct orders, from think tanks like the one I cited, continue to scapegoat and lay blame to divert attention away from their own blunders, instead of taking meaningful action, comforting those suffering, showing real leadership. But I guess we all know by now that's asking too much.
Well, I'm not going anywhere. I mean anywhere. My wife just got tested - fever, feels awful, etc. - and I"m now in a quarantine situation with her. Hence, we'll be here for a while. No grocery store, pharmacy, anything, I FaceTime with my 6 year old granddaughter. We play with dolls and unicorns. We also draw pictures, although she says I'm awful, but that she's an artist. So, that's that. I'll practice and take FaceTime lessons. My townhouse neighbors can listen and hear both my playing and my rather loud and spontaneous shouts of profanity when I mess up. The air mattress has a hole in it, so I'll sleep on the sofa. Fortunately, my wife is feeling a bit better, this morning but we're still confined until the test results come back. They say it will be at least 8 days although the average here in Oregon has been 13 days. So, air travel is out, cars, trains, and bicycles too. We plan to eat the rest of our dark chocolate, (Come on, Paul, have a piece. It's good for you.) We'll save our single bottle of wine for when we're in the clear, and continue to bing watch Netflix and Amazon Prime.
Oh, Michael. Sending prayers for a speedy recovery for your wife and for good health for you.
Jeewon Kim, how did you come to the conclusion that the US administration is not taking meaningful action?
Is it safe to order food from Amazon? Or will I get scammed if I’m not careful?
Michael, I hope your wife will recover quickly, and you will all come out your quarantine no worse for wear.
I think they've taken a reasonable course for now, given the available resources. There will always be people who will complain that they are doing too much, and others will complain that they aren't doing enough. That's just human nature.
I will admit to my liberal leanings off the top, and I don't have much hope that anything will change but:
Is this article chock full of lies, or is the US government taking a reasonable course? Can't be both.
David, I'd put money on the amount of people complaining that the government did too little rising and the amount if people complaining that the government did too much falling with time.
Jeewon, I would suggest getting your information from multiple news sources (and even multiple "science" sources), since most have a bias of one sort or another.
Really David? You're asking if an individual in a foreign country can do better than a federal government? Is that a real question? I always took you for a reasonable person.
Jeewon Kim wrote:
Self isolate. Minimize going outside. If you have to go outside, keep a distance of 6 feet. Help flatten the curve to buy time for the scientists to find treatments and a vaccine, and for medical equipment to be produced. Call me a fool for believing the experts. I'm OK with that.
"Wasn't it you who was criticizing the US response?"
Those things are already being done in the US.
You're not addressing the Federal problem. I think it is you who has his head buried in the sand. You still haven't responded to 1,2,3,6.
Well, at least I noticed that there was no #6 in your post. Perhaps you can edit your post to add it? LOL
How has the response to New York been slow?
David put his finger on the problem right from the outset: "I think they've taken a reasonable course for now, given the available resources."
Only complete fools and idiots would think the American response has been appropriate and fast enough so far.
I'm surprised you're still engaging with my emotional analysis. I have never claimed to have the answers, but enlighten me David. What are the flaws in my proposals? You've called me a fool. You say I am emotional, but you refuse to address the arguments and proposals laid out by the experts and articles which cite expert advice. Why? Is that your whole argument? All these journalists, doctors, virologists, disease epidemiologists, scientists, governors are just fools? What about all their recommendations? What are the flaws in what they propose?
Don't worry, David's stupid like that!!
Paul, here's another fool, Naomi Oreskes, a professor of the history of science at Harvard, explaining why those in charge didn't act:
Jaewon, the US administration is largely following the advice of the doctors, virologists, and disease epidemiologists. Journalists, not so much, and I think that's how it should be.
"...articles which cite expert advice."
Can you not discern the difference between a great leader, a narcissistic buffoon, and a criminally dangerous idiot????
I'd rather not participate in bashing of either party. Nor am I registered as a voter for either party.
David, it's not the fact of whether there is a plan in place that's troubling, it's 1) that he's openly disagreeing with experts 2) the lack of continuity in messaging 3) that he's giving the impression things are going well enough to go back to normal soon, contradicting what the experts are saying and what the evidence is showing.
@ David. Respectfully sir. Trump lies all the time. I'm surprised he hasn't dislocated his shoulder from patting himself on the back all the time.
David seems to look to the President as some kind of role model???
David put his finger on the problem right from the outset: "I think they've taken a reasonable course for now, given the available resources."
I very much appreciate Jeewon's posted articles. Thanks.
Mary Ellen your Lt. Gov. is not alone. He's in the fine company of other Republican state officials across the land. Like Kay Ivey, the Governor of Alabama who is "committed to raising the quality of life for all Alabamians." Reminds me a little of that fine gentleman, George Wallace.
This thread was supposed to be about preventative measures against the virus. Meaning maybe contribute any other ideas how to do this on a personal level?
It wouldn't have to get trashy if we didn't have a lot of trash in the white house putting all of our lives at greater risk.
Can't that go into another thread?
I will be very surprised if it’s safe to travel as soon as late April.
"Italy, a much more "liberal" nation than the US (including "free" health care), has the highest death rate so far. So I don't think that latching on to either liberal or conservative views offers a solution. Perhaps you can do better than you have so far?"
A doctor was telling me, weather also plays a huge role in transmission. If you look at the case map, countries up north are getting hammered by this virus. Countries south of the equator where it’s hotter and more humid, are doing a bit better with less cases and deaths.
not true in Australia, or Malaysia
The big factor, Nate, is mobility. The poorer a country is the better it has fared until now, because fewer people travel by plane.
Yeah, things are happening so fast. I booked those tickets last year. My mom and I traveled overseas from the US in January when there wasn't much news about COVID-19 yet.
Phoebe, travel (other than in a personally owned vehicle) sounds very risky right now, particularly for your elderly mother. There's really no practical way to avoid contact with surfaces which many other people have contacted. This applies not only to airplanes, but also to ground transportation, and even hotels.
"Then why are you doing so?"
Okay, who inserted the HTML that blew out the margins.
"I think they've taken a reasonable course for now, given the available resources."
Herman, I was giving a counterexample to the claim that politics was responsible for the corona virus problem in the US. In other words, I was trying to take the conversation AWAY from political blaming. But apparently that didn't work. People are far too heavily invested in playing the political blame game! LOL
If anyone really believes the current POTUS’s response
Sorry Paul, it must've been me, since I've inserted the most links.
David, I might just do that - not travel if it's still bad at that time. I have no problem staying where I am right now.
Exactly. But to use a pandemic? Sad.
When faced with a medical emergency, listen to medical experts and act responsibly, don't listen to rich, bribery influenced, politicians who are trying to buy their way into the next election, at the cost of the safety and in this case, literally lives of potentially million of people. and read this from disease experts when you have the time
Rosemary, I'm wondering about quarantines put in place too. If there's a quarantine imposed, would they put people up in hotels for two weeks?
Phoebe, my understanding is that they are using hotel rooms .
Deleted an earlier post, trying to self edit my politics.
As I read these posts, I can't help but be struck by the similarities in the nature of the discussion to
Well Scott, I'm glad you want to take the high road.
Phoebe, your best bet, provided that you can, is to stay put! It may take a month or two to get back. But provided the way things are changing so quickly, you will be putting you and your Mom at a lot of risk. It will not take long for the airlines to realize that they need to make drastic changes to mitigate the damage. Flights with 3 people on board cost them dearly as well as flights halfway around the world. Once you put yourself in their hands, who knows what may happen and where you will end up, and when. So play it safe!
Rosemary, that's what I feared. Would I have to pay for the 2 weeks hotel stay? If they pay for it, it would probably be at some cheap motel! Yikes!
Jeewon, I was curious too so I did a search and this is what came up:
I debated about chiming in here at all, but feel qualified to address item #1 on Scott Cole's list. Proposals of unconventional approaches to avoid or cure disease are a perennial medical problem, especially when people are anxious or desparate. The medical establishment's approaches to innovation may seem clunky, but they are done that way for sound reasons. The OP mentions surface cleaning with alcohol - sound science there if it's 70% or so, but the use of Listerine, which has some antibacterial, but not antiviral properties, for prevention of viral disease lacks scientific or evidence based foundation. To claim so is unhelpful. The listerine website specifically answers the question:
@ Phoebe, I just followed the link you provided.
Thanks for that link Phoebe. I will bookmark that paper for future reference. It's good to hear there are positive outcomes for minorities, especially women, under the current administration. But did you actually read the article from the Washington Post they link to? It's a complex interplay of many things that has led to greater employment.
The Western Journal is basically a hack joint for far right writers.
Herman, it looks packed to the brim with "conservative intellectuals", LOL.
Energy needs to be re-directed into understanding that BOTH political parties are too dysfunctional and toxic to ever provide us with proper direction. We need younger, newer, political leaders that know how to work to join us. Thinking these same old hacks are going to ever provide us that is madness. It is an endless circle that is festering into irrepetible damage. Trying to understand them and make sense of them is ridiculous beyond comprehension.
Here are 3 opinion pieces from a national paper here in Canada if anyone cares. The Globe and Mail is centre/slightly right (for Canada) paper editorially, representing the liberal business community.
Since all of this started, I've been talking with my sisters almost every day either on the telephone or text or FaceTime. I've spoken with them more in the last few days than I have in the past two years. It's been good to see both of them. One of them is solidly in a different political camp than I am, but we laugh and celebrate our children and grandchildren, My other sister - a middle child - has spent her life trying to make peace with everyone. She has some problems with letting go and enjoying life, but she's a good person. I like talking with both of them.
Charles Zack, thanks for your input! I'm glad you posted and I don't think it is an imposition at all! I'm glad that you pointed out that our home remedies such as mouthwash and menthanol won't work on viruses just because they work on certain bacteria.
Timothy, this is why I'm an Independent. I really can't get behind either party fully. I don't vote third party though - that's just wasting my vote.
Huh, who knew? Learning so much...
Phoebe, I'm not 'left' in any way possible.
"Italy, a much more 'liberal' nation than the US (including 'free' health care), has the highest death rate so far."
Oh good grief, Paul! I can see how it could be spun that way, if one wants to take one sentence out of context, and then further distort it to meet their agenda. Perhaps I should have included a paragraph of disclaimers for the logic-impaired? LOL
Okay, so in order to even the score, you said exactly what Herman said you did? Nice going. I guess it's okay if that was your purpose. The problem is that your counter-claim is a baseless cheap shot. That's always the weakness of "plenty of blame to go around" and "good guys on both sides" and "what about?" kinds of arguments.
A baseless cheap shot at what?
...Paul has been educating future scientists and researchers. That isn't enough of a contribution?
Some people are going well beyond their regular paid gigs.
Sure. I could do more. Lots of us could. My "paid gig" is pretty brutal right now because of the change to online teaching, but others have it far worse.
Nope. The title of the thread is,
Phoebe, I'm an independent too! And if the republican party hadn't done everything in its power over the past 40 years to punish and jail the poor and minorities, to funnel taxpayer dollars to the wealthy, to start devastating wars based on racism and lies with no actual plans on how to conduct or end them, to make healthcare harder to get, and I could go on and on, they might be deserving of my vote. I'm not a fan of some democratic machine politics, and frankly, the democratic party as a whole is still in thrall to a lot of morally repugnant neo-liberal influences, I can usually find some agreement with my views among strands of the party - There is no such equivalent for me among republicans.
David, you asked me what I would do to solve the problem that's better than what our current leaders are doing. I'm answering you for the
I can't help but wonder why I'm the only one coming up with multiple sources of information, like I did from the start by linking the Texas Public Policy site, and the John Ioannidis article I mentioned in Dimitri's report from Italy. I also mentioned David L. Katz, above, who is behind Trump's current plan, to return things to normal by Easter. Where are David's sources. Any more from Phoebe? I've offered several reasons why I think the current Feds are doing a poor job, all of which other people, experts and politicians, have said elsewhere. And David has countered by offering evidence of what his Governor has been doing.
Do you have access to a sewing machine? ;-)
Taking a break from the hijack, this may be the only way for seniors to boost their immune systems (or rather, restore):
Here's another possibility:
Wow, folks, this made for some interesting reading this morning!
I'm sorry to say Dimitri that this time I think you have it very wrong and the numbers alone will not tell us who got it right, certainly not who are the "guilty" ones. Every country entered this tunnel with a different set of circumstances - social, medical and political - which largely determined how their governments responded. Nevertheless, after the pandemic is over I foresee a thousand lawsuits claiming that a certain death was preventable and due to someone's inappropriate action or inaction.
Respectfully, Steve, I disagree. Number can and will explain everything.
@ George Wells. Do I understand correctly that you work at Bell Labs? My parents were friends with Dr. John Pierce.
Best to you, Dimitri.
Thank you David, much appreciated. And best to you and yours too. And to all of you on v.com.
Hi Dimitri, I hope you're safe and well.
@ Dimitri - the numbers are indeed suggestive evidence but open to many interpretations. As an ex-scientist I ask myself "what do they prove" and the answer with such a poorly controlled experiment has to be "nothing". Let's not jump to any conclusions and encourage the lawyers!
Seems without question that a system that ties health care to employment is not sensible for a situation like this. Most know, but our system is an accident of history. The government had installed wage controls post WW2, employers started offering health insurance as a way to get around this.
As far as I know, almost every hospital in the U.S. is required by law to provide necessary emergency medical treatment, regardless of ability to pay.
yeah it takes a real genius to defend the American health system, the bill for coronavirus hospitalisation is estimated $35,000
Steve, perhaps you can help critique this guy's numbers:
Yes, one of the biggest challenges in hospital capacity. Even if social distancing should fail to reduce the overall number of people eventually infected, it helps spread that number over a longer period of time, making it less likely that a sudden surge of patients will overwhelm hospital capacity.
Yes, that’s our system. All will be treated, if they overcome their legitimate fear
I just saw a photo in the NYT of President Trump in front of the Naval medical ship
And you can bet the wealthy will buy whatever service or equipment they need. Is it any wonder Trump "is remarkably sanguine about the coronavirus, given that he is in the demographic more likely to die if infected"?
I doubt it Jeewon! To critique anyone's data you need to understand the specific background, how it was acquired, how analysed and how interpreted. But it looks like a good read.
It might be nice if US lobbying and campaign finance laws were overhauled. But it's difficult to see that happening, since politician are arguably financial beneficiaries of the current system.
Well I hope you can comment on it if you happen to read it, Steve, see if there are any glaring inconsistencies. For us lay people all we have is our openness or bias, capacity for being able to 'listen and learn', but in the end we just have to choose whom to believe, if we can get past our prejudice.
I can already say I don't think he has the necessary authority to need to believe him! And that the article is 10 days out of date which is about a year of normal time
I have insurance through my wife’s job. Sounds like David possibly has his gubmint
In Singapore, people who violate the social distancing measures can be fined up to 7000 dollars, or be arrested and face up to six months in jail, or both.
Yeah, I saw Pueyo's article floating around FBook about a week ago. People were encouraging friends (among musicians) to write their members of parliament to increase enforcement, which experts say is difficult to do. To be honest I haven't read it very carefully because of Pueyo's lack of creds, but also because it kinda hurts my brain. (Was trying to trick you into reading it for me ;)
As Matthew was saying:
I thought of a way we could all help prevent the spread of corona virus. Just divide your violin practicing into 10 different time intervals. Everyone washes their hands before they practice, and that would mean one hell of a lot more hand washing.
Jeewon, for a while there, I thought you were backing off from your partisan zealotry and fingerpointing. I do realize that when some people get stressed or frightened, their first tendency is to cast about for someone to direct their anger toward. But this does little good right now.
From the New York Times,
Jeewon, re “Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance” by Tomas Pueyo: I just read it and I don't think there is much to critique. I had read his previous analysis ("Why You Must Act Now") and the paper from Imperial College that he refers to. In one aspect, they may be too optimistic. They assume a 10-day intensive-care stay, which is also the number used by the policymakers here in the Netherlands. But today, the news came that the average IC stay has turned out to be 23 days rather than ten and that our IC capacity will likely be overwhelmed by a factor two.
Thanks so much Han! Nice to have your assessment. Wow, 10+ years. That's sobering. And that probably doesn't take into consideration mutation. Some say they have no reason to believe it will not become endemic, like the flu. They just don't know at this point. I found this site:
Here are 3 sources which illustrate why I think it's important to talk about politics in these times:
Not taking the bait. Would take too long. Got things to do. Busy busy busy. :-)
You mean, you took the bait and spat it back out;) That's cool.
Here is a hypothetical situation: An armada of Russian long-range bombers crosses into northern Canada. The Pentagon warns Trump that there is serious radar activity along the DEW line. Instead of taking immediate action, Trump watches as Winnipeg and Ottawa are vaporized. Now the planes are at our own border and unspeakable horror is being visited on Chicago, Detroit, and Cleveland. Here on Violinist.com, the following conversation ensues:
I'd probably help make ammunition, or whatever else was needed, and save the whining for after the immediate crisis was resolved. Whining tends to be bad for the teamsmanship and morale that can be helpful in a crisis. ;-)
That's what I'm saying. You'd have us all making bullets in our basements while atomic bombs are raining from the sky. That's a sweet gesture, but it's not going to move the needle on the carnage and destruction.
plus I'm pretty sure cloth masks provide little or no protection for the coronavirus, the holes in the cloth are just too big.
Well, at least the Democrats will have better grounds for impeachment after he gets re-elected. President Pence, anyone?
OK I take it back. Because, why is David now ALL CAPS yelling at us? Why is he getting so upset, so hurt people might misunderstand him, especially when misdirection is his primary method of arguing? Why is he taking things so personally?
Jeewon wrote: "OK I take it back. Because, why is David now ALL CAPS yelling at us?"
David, here are instructions for bold, underline, and italics. However,
For Yuanyuan Zhu, it's personal.
The current Federal Government under Trump is Republican in name only. True Republicans stand for democracy. Trump is a demagogue, and that is nothing to be taken lightly, just like COVID-19.
Your link is behind a paywall.
Jeewon, the punch-in-the-face incident happened in Australia, did it not? What does that have to do with US politics?
Because the same kinds of things happen here too.
US politics affects the world. I understand. Trump is not a world leader. MAGA forever. US leaders used to be world leaders. And, as Paul says, it's an illustration of a global problem.
David, are you that ignorant that a punch in the face in Australia is not worth as much as a punch in the face in America??
I think we know what's wrong with America.
"You did graduate high school, right?"
David remains unmoved. I give him 6 incidences of a violation of civil rights perpetrated on American citizens, and all he can do is focus on the 1 case from Australia. And all he can do is call it a "punch-in-the-face incident." You know how inconvenient it is to put in all those dashes, straining to reach with your pinky N/E? I know "violation of civil and human rights" is a finger-full, but how about "crime"?
Lyndon, you don't need to defend the toughness your birthland. I have little doubt that some Australians can punch just fine. When I was there, I was warned about going to certain parts of certain cities.
"David remains unmoved. I give him 6 incidences of a violation of civil rights perpetrated on American citizens, and all he can do is focus on the 1 case from Australia."
David thinks that one arrest helps to mitigate racism and violence caused by Trump's words.
David still refuses to engage in rational arguing and now resorts to name calling.
Don't try to "blame-shift" it onto me. That's an intellectual whimp tactic.
David masters irony.
Are you drunk or somethin'?
D'oooooh! David gets in another ad hominem jab, but quickly ducks and refuses to cut to the chase (come to the point.) Does David believe calling the Covid-19 virus by it's city or country of origin helps the pandemic? Does he believe it incites hatred and violence? Yes/no questions... 50/50... So simple....
"D'oooooh! David gets in another ad hominem jab, but quickly ducks and refuses to cut to the chase (come to the point.)"
BS David, your politics are far right, you've made that abundantly clear on this forum and others.
Well, I tried...
Condolences to you on your loss, Jeewon. I understand, since I have lost many family members too, due to various causes. Even when they wanted to go, it was very hard for me.
Thank you, David. I hope you and yours stay safe.
sorry to hear, Jeewon, may She rest in Peace!