Reduce working day to 6-7 hours
I think this is a very important thing that influences art and that musicians should be aware about. Especially performance art.
The common working day worldwide is 8 hours.
This is an achievement of the socialist movements in the 20th century.
But in my view (and there were other known people that said it) it is too much:
8 hour working day doesn't leave to people the ability to go to concerts and to consume things freely. Especially art.
The 8 hours working day doesn't include the almost 2 hours that the average people spend on going to work and going back. In some cases more than that.
If you taking into account that going to concert takes about 3-4 hours it pretty much Kills all the day to go to a concert.
That means that people can go to concerts mainly in their free days or weekends.
And it reduces very much the public ability to go to concerts.
Not just financial abilities - but also this.
Don't know what you're talking about. I work more than 8 hours a day, and have time to practice and do other hobbies.
The 8 hour workday is dead for a lot of Americans.
Obviously you don't work fast enough. But I'd bet there are people out there on YouTube who could show you how to do that properly.
Standard in Canada is generally 7.5 hrs/day, but I will agree that North America work expectations far exceed that of Europe, especially when it comes to vacation time. North Americans (although nowhere near China) are slave drivers in comparison. How does this affect arts and leasure in general? We can speculate to deaths, but without data to support whatever arguments we'll come up with, it is rather pointless.
In most white collar professional jobs in the US, you are paid a salary. You are not paid by the hour; legally, this is referred to as being "exempt".
Roger St Pierre
OK, Mr. Politician. What's your plan? Making public policy isn't about saying "this is how it should be" and haranguing people on the internet. It's about identifying concrete steps toward your policy goals, taking into account all the stakeholders' interests and trying to work out win-win solutions so that you can convince people to get on board with your plan.
No, the question is not whether it's a new idea. The question is: what kind of strategy do you have to make it happen? Otherwise, no matter who may have proposed it in the past, you're still just haranguing people on the internet.
David K, the US population is largely composed of descendants of immigrants who where seeking economic opportunity. If greater personal wealth can generally be achieved by working LESS, that's something I am not familiar with.
Is that true that in Sweden a six hour workday (but with the previous 8 hour pay) was in a let's say "trial mode" for some time? Could anybody report on that? I've only read pleasant comments regarding the issue, but haven't discussed it properly with somebody with first hand experience.
I would love to reduce to an 8 hour work day.
When I was in my 30's, I often worked 80 hour weeks. No regrets.
@Lydia, "most white collar professional jobs in the US, you are paid a salary. You are not paid by the hour"
David K 15 shows in 6 months is actually more than 1 every 2 weeks. Did they not teach math at your University?
"The common working day worldwide is 8 hours."
David K. wrote:
"What really happened when Swedes tried six-hour days?
George, I love that 80/20 rule. Very interesting and there is a lot of truth to it. Task lists can be very helpful, and of course there is now a lot of software to help people manage those, which is good because managing them correctly is the key.
David K. wrote:
8 hours of violin per day is common enough with professionals:
Now we're talking my language. David, if you haven't read Bertrand Russel's In Praise of Idleness, I recommend it.
Christian, I haven't seen that anyone is "expecting" Violinist.com to be "a website catering to the USA". However, while there are people posting from all over the world, the majority appear to be in the USA. That's just an observation, and not any sort of wish or expectation.
I wrote, "They could, by SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS!"
*Splat*. I'm familiar with the life story you've presented here, and we are clearly working off of very different assumptions about how the world works and should. Anyway, my first post was mostly directed at David K, but since you deigned to swat on that anyway, I'm not against anyone's work-ethic. Trying to shoehorn the economics of the world of classical music, whether from building instruments or playing professionally or teaching, to a libertarian, free-market model, full of rational actors is fantasy, but so is the idea of a libertarian, free-market model, full of rational actors.
For the record, I'm in favor of a shorter work week. I just find David's argument for it a little weird and hard to sell to the general public.
Do you think that people would use their extra free time to attend classical music concerts?
Today people "Go to concerts and shows" too - but because they don't have time and money in many cases (because of another big problem - of corrupt and not efficient governments) they "go to concerts" on youtube!! Or watch TV - that are short and cost very little or free.
Generally I agree with David Burgess. But of course that might because I'm a deranged, pig-headed American. Over here our "work ethic" is still connected to images (some might say legends) like "Rosie the Riveter."
This might not apply to everyone here. In my experience/observation, if you want to work 8 hours and pay your basic living expenses, the option is available. A lot of the time, people who work more than 8 hours are doing so either for more money, or because they actually enjoy the job and there's no option to work less in that field.
Many decades ago, when I started as a technical trainee in a large metallurgical corporation, the standard working hours per week in that industry, and mostly elsewhere, were 42 for a 5-1/2 day week. As part of my training I had 1 day a week at college plus 3 night-school classes, all in pursuit of degree-level science qualifications, which were eventually followed by studying for a full-blown external degree. So it was a very busy period for me in which music unfortunately had a very limited presence.
There is a reported association between long working hours and a history of strokes. See here:
Personally, I would rather pass away near my prime, if the other option is living a boring retirement life playing shuffleboard and bingo, and believing that I look hot in a Speedo or thongy-thing.
In Japan, where many people work very long hours in stressful jobs, the word
David K, political campaign rhetoric may not be the most reliable source of information about the USA. ;-)
Well DK is right about the inability to afford basic housing on the US minimum wage. That's not campaign rhetoric. The US minimum wage is about half what it should be.
Paul, I wouldn't object to the minimum wage being raised, but many of the "inability to afford housing" calculations are based on the luxury of having a place all to ones self. Expenses can be lowered considerably by having roommates. I have done this, and wouldn't be surprised if you have too, at one time or another.
So poor people should not have families David?
Elise, housing subsidies are greater for people with kids. And in many parts of the world, two or three generations of a family will often live in the same house. Why is that so uncommon here?
I understand David B's comment, "people not have kids until they have set themselves up financially to do so," but IMO it's not acceptable to punish children for poor choices made by their parents. Everything you do to a young single mother you're doing to her kids. What if, instead, we fed, clothed, housed, and educated the (erstwhile) girl in the first place? Maybe outcomes would be better then.
Out of one side of their mouths, conservatives say, "Why don't poor, underemployed or jobless people live in two- or three-generation households to save money?" Out of the other side, they say, "Why don't poor, underemployed or jobless people pick up and move to where the better paying jobs are?"
The new eugenics - only the rich (and selfish and often evil and incaring) gene set are allowed to have kids.
" I understand David B's comment, "people not have kids until they have set themselves up financially to do so," but IMO it's not acceptable to punish children for poor choices made by their parents."
My gut response to this thread is that anyone who elects to work as an artist or creator, signs on for a life without division between work and life. I teach professional workshops in my field and I always say, if you can imagine doing anything else, do it. There is almost never a time when I do not think I should be working. Not always because of money, but because it takes that to push the work forward.
Matthew, I suspect that the desire for "passive (and dirt-cheap) worker bees" is largely what the push for unlimited and uncontrolled immigration has been about.
Well, you can have immigrant labor, or you can pay $2 apiece for apples out of local season. What happens to the nutrition of the lower classes then?
Paul, consider apple sauce. Nutritionally very similar (if it doesn't have a bunch of added sugar), and available inexpensively year-round. ;-)
Yet another winner of a topic.
Not only should the poor avoid having families but they shouldn't eat fresh fruit either. Like I said, I don't want to live in that kind of country. (Note that fresh apples with the skin have twice as much dietary fiber by mass as applesauce. Let them eat wheat germ?)
The poor should just do what the rest of us do--eat out at restaurants.
And those who are economically better situated should pay for it. ;-)
Let them eat (rosin) cake
Uh oh, don't get your head cut off! ;-)
I probably wouldn't miss it much anyway.
What would you do with your chinrest?
I could complete my journey by specializing in HIP.
This discussion has been archived and is no longer accepting responses.