Caprice No.16 by Paganini on A BIKE
They don't call paganini
"Gymnastics for violin" for nothing...
Also - I played here very fast- among the fastest in the world - 1:29.
The fascinating thing about this is that the beginning, at least, is more in tune than your previous efforts.
There's only one thing I don't understand:
German luthier and violinist Christian Adam still holds the Guinness world record for cycling backwards (60 kilometers) while playing his violin (Bach and, on later occasions, also Bruch): http://www.lustige-weltrekorde.de/Funrecords-Guinness-FR.html
Now play it while using a hula hoop. See Hilary Hahn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOjO4ekcJQA
I don't get any of this. Either he's trying to get into the troll hall of fame, or we are seeing, first hand, how this infernal instrument has driven somebody to insanity.
The thread title reminds me of "Green Eggs and Ham." Would you like them in a box? With a fox?
Except that you aren't really riding a bike....
Please stop making new threads about caprice 16. You didn't even need 2. This is just spamming now.
What some may consider spam I consider a pleasant diversion from the mundane and I could not pedal a bike or hula hoop while playing.
Even more than that - as lydia said -
On a pretty much lower level (happily chopping through some piles of boroque and not bothering with virtuoso literature) I've been observed to play more in tune while walking around, looking out of the window or being busy with anything one could technically be occupied while playing a stringed instrument, than I would play if concentrating on intonation.
Your Paganini playing deserves no threads. It deserves a toilet.
I agree that this should be confined to its existing thread rather than spawning new threads.
This one's not Paganini but it's on a unicycle.
No matter what you think, David's such a phenomenon on V.com recently.
I agree with Marty, Michael and Lydia. Why is he allowed to start 3 discussions on the same subject and spam this forum with his vile playing?
I think Laurie tends to be a light-touch moderator (commendably so), and as long as forum rules aren't being broken, she doesn't intervene.
In this recording on the bike i was far from the microphone,
As I said, this is not a musical / violin-playing probem, but a mental health issue. Every online forum of any size attracts folks who are there only for the attention, spawning multiple topics that are essentially about themselves. No give and take whatsoever.
And yes, i was kind of a prodigy at local israeli level as a kid and teenager, performed solo in official events etc.
There were Jewish musicians that survived the Holocaust and didn't play for years at all and than got back to playing as professionals after the war,
If I were you, I'd focus on being the most musical player, rather than the fastest. No one really cares about speed here.
Here is a comparison to Markov:
And i can do it also while riding on a bike!!!!...
Wow, you play a lot more in tune this time. Very advanced playing!
No. It isn't a new video. This is the first video from the first thread!.
Seriously - maybe this intonation problem that you feel happens because of the distortion of the sound and the recording quality,
Actually, no. The difference in intonation between you and Julia Fischer is immense, even in the very first phrase. And video equipment may change the tone quality, but it doesn't change the pitch.
There's also a huge difference between you and Markov. Again, it's noticeable even within the first phrase.
David doesn't hear he is out of tune.
Krakovich, if you can not hear the differences between your own playing, and that of Julia Fisher and others you have referenced, I can only feel sorry for you.
It’s not against any rules to post videos of yourself playing badly...you’ll get the reactions you get!
I guess Laurie's right, but it's going to get to a point where it's just downright spam. I mean, it already is, but it's not unbearable.
Can we just make a challenge where we try to play stuff as fast as possible, while doing the stupidest things possible?
An exercise bike isn’t a real bike. Please stop!
You know what?
And we saw this "Prejudice" already-
Your main problem with me is tune!. And in violin you can always say something about the tune, especially when it isn't a studio recording.
I didn't blast your 16 Caprice David, you can check your old thread.
You did blast, you said few comments ago about the 16th caprice!:
I did not comment specifically on this 16, sorry for not being clear. To my ears, your biggest problem is playing out of tune, then intonation, specifically on the harder pieces. You should try to improve on these.
Ok. I will make a test video of different pieces, and everyone will be able to say when it is me and when it is a famous violinist "with their eyes closed" and we'll see.
That's why they do the auditions with closed curtain, no?
David, you can check your intonation for yourself. Slow down your Paganini 16 video(s), and try matching the pitches to a tuner. Whether you set an equal-temperament or just-temperament standard, you'll see that you're well off pitch on many notes.
Here's the thing: there's no need to compare to Markov or Fischer. We can compare you to the two amateurs who replied to the long thread, playing the same caprice on less than one hour of practice.
No no no.
The intonation doesn't bother me so much as the sound quality. It's partly the fiddle, but not completely. You just don't seem to try to get a nice sound with your bow, as if it just doesn't even matter because it's a fast piece.
I'm not saying people here are lying, maybe they really feel that i play not in tune and bad sincerely,
Most politicians are like that - they leave Careers in different spheres and go to politics for several years, sometimes even to learn it academically as i did,
Matt, "playing in tune" and "good intonation" are the same thing..
Adrian, I stand corrected, thank you for pointing that out, it's very helpful. musicality should be in place of intonation.
Ok. We will check everyone hearing later today when i will make a "closed curtain" odition video.
Keep pumping out content, David.
He could be a YouTuber pumping out this much content.
Ok. Let's test it:
I am not sure who is the players, but I can give my opinions...
I agree with Mathias' guesses. The intonation in the slow pieces might be found in many a professional
Ok. Thank you, i guess...
You know what? I will give you another chance- you can hear it once again and change your decisions till tomorrow, for not to be embarrassed when the curtain will be taken down.
I listened to Oblivion, Liebesleid and #16 and I'll trust Mattias for the Shostakovich, so same picks for me.
I also agree with Mathias. The Liebesleid 1/4, Shostakovich 4/4, and Paganini 2/5 really stick out as amateurish. And the intonation problems of the Shostakovich are multiplied by stacking two recordings, neither of which is in tune, into one recording which is jarring.
Ok. Thank you, anyone else?
It's obvious from the acoustics which are professional and which are recorded in David's living room.
Andrew, you can't hear the differences apart from the acoustics?
Andrew, that is not fair: we can admire David for putting himself on the line (as opposed to "online"!) and Mathias' and Lydia's comments are sincere and detailed. My comment on the Paganini was not kind, but accurate, I think, and even you called it a "joke piece", which apparently David never intended it to be (at least in the previous threads without the bike).
David, if some "regular" folk find your playing good, I'm glad for you, but rest assured that there are many non-musicians with fine musical discrimination; surely these are the ones we most want to please?
Anyone else here has the "zoom q2n" to compare?
David, could you post links to the source videos? I don't recognize some of the violinists either by sight or sound, and I'm curious who they are. (I see my guess that some of this was cellphone video was correct, though.)
I don't think any of us had trouble guessing which one was you, other than perhaps Andrew Fryer.
I usually shoot my video with a Zoom Q4n, which has better video resolution but the same audio hardware and software as the Zoom Q2n. (The Paganini #16 videos I posted were shot with an old iPad Mini, which has a somewhat inferior microphone compared to an iPhone. For reference:
All of You will not convince me. I have ears and eyes.
All right, then. Here are the folks that represent Hilary Hahn and many other professional players: https://imgartists.com/
One of the hardest things to do while practicing is to actually hear what we're playing accurately. We all have a mental picture of how the piece should go, and a lot of the time our brain substitutes that picture in place of what the ears are telling us. It's like when you're writing (or speaking!) and use the entirely wrong word, but because you know what you meant to say, you don't notice unless it's pointed out to you. Hearing what you're actually playing instead of what you meant to play requires a great deal of focus and concentration. For that reason I tend to trust recordings I make of my playing over my own ears - my ears are biased and lie, but machines can only spit out what was put in - they don't add or subtract notes of their own accord.
David, it's not your equipment. Take Irene's comment to heart. And besides, I've just showed you that a Zoom captures a violin perfectly well. I'm certain intonation slips in my videos are actually me and not the equipment. And i'm certain your intonation issues are actually you and not your equipment.
@David, I think you play reasonably well, especially on the easier pieces. This is assuming that you play to an average audience, and not to a group of musicians. And it is nearly impossible for listeners to judge the intonation if they are sufficiently unfamiliar with the music.
David, you keep asking people here what they think, and then you disregard most of the feedback, which you must admit is confusing. That's why I think you should just audition for a professional orchestra (as someone has previously suggested), or query a talent agency, and get some opinions from a different source. You say yourself that you play at a professional level; it's unclear why you need anyone's opinion on this forum.
Lydia, I liked your video. But I think the reason for you intonation slips is because your not riding a stationary bike.
David you have made it quite clear that you find your intonation acceptable, together with one or two sincere posters, and one or two very sarcastic jokers (of which I don't approve).
It's also relevant that we have a lot more tolerance for errors in children, including intonation issues, because it is understood that they are on a journey.
I am disappointed that I was unable to take Mr. Krakovich's aural test and wish that he had given a bit more time for other people to evaluate and opine on this subject. It is probably not fair for me at this point to speculate on what my choices would have been with just the sound clips available.
Lydia, the acoustics are sufficient not necessary.
I can take up one of David's points.
Perfect pitch is a rare gift which not everyone is privileged to have. Researchers estimate the occurrence of perfect pitch to be 1 to 5 in 10,000 people, musicians or non-musicians (0.01% - 0.05%). Just among musicians, it occurs at higher rates, from <1% up to 11%. Occurrence is higher with early musical training (use Google to find academic source for these numbers if you are in doubt). Note that self-report is a popular method used in most research, which presents one possible source of overestimation.
Matt, it is important to realize that it is not necessary to have perfect pitch in order to play the violin completely in tune. Indeed, for some players whose pitch sense is fixed to a particular pitch reference (like A=440), it can be more difficult to adjust to, say, an A=440 or an A=415.
If you read David’s recent responses carefully, you can see that he’s beginning to observe/admit his intonation problems. Your comments on his playing ARE making a difference in his evaluation of himself.
Oh, My, God...
Lydia, of course it would be strange to assume someone can't play in tune without perfect pitch.
Maybe David should play the Pag 16 from memory then he could devote more focus on intonation, phrasing and expression...!?
Maybe this is the reason that in Markov video, the same video sounds cleaner -
Here is the same "Introduction" video with different setting on the zoom q2n:
When i hear all the new videos carefully with earphones and closed eyes! (Very important - because you are more consentrated on the audio) they all sound very clean.
So yes, 44k doesn't capture the sound of the instrument as well as 96k. But it's not distorting the pitch. (Note that I, and countless other violinists, are using the same Zoom audio hardware and software as you. I have not ever felt that my Zoom has distorted the pitch of the performers, regardless of circumstance. True of my iPhone as well, by the way -- no pitch distortion.)
David - please do this test for me. Record a video with your phone or your ZOOM of ANY video on youtube that you admire for their intonation. Then playback your phone's recording at the same time as the youtube recording and you will see that the intonation hasn't changed at all.
David - you need to listen to that Inroduction again. Even your 2'nd note is so high that it is a quartertone. Very few notes is perfectly in tune and it gives the entire recording a "dirty" sound.
Such bad faith!
David, if you're suggesting that people here are choosing to dislike your playing out of prejudice because you're an amateur, think again. Many of the people on this forum are amateurs who also happen to be very accomplished violinists themselves. We are aware that an amateur violinist is not necessarily a bad player, but is simply a person who does not rely on their playing financially. It's inappropriate to assume that people on here are dissing you just because you're not a pro. Calm down.
Ok. This is the intonation test with a tuner:
You should not tune your violin strings one by one with a tuner, tune only the A and then adjust the pitch of the other strings accordingly by listening to the intervals of a perfect fifth
This intonation test is an abject failure by the way
Your margin of error is too wide -- I use the exact same app to check my intonation, and in most cases playing a note 1-2 bars above or below the pitch on the tuner is already noticeable as inaccurate intonation
Why are you playing only in the top half of the bow? You paid for a whole bow, you should use the entire thing.
You’re sharp in the first four notes of the scale, and then I hit pause to reply.
David - no... Please do my test and record youtube, and you'll see that the camera doesn't change the pitch.
How about here, the reverb is insane, but you can hear every note and they're all in tune...
David, the issue is not that the tuner is inaccurate, it's that you are not using it properly. Re-read Joel's and Mattias's advice about how to use it.
What Andrew said.
I'm working on a children's book, excerpt below:
What Lydia said. But David, setting aside your intonation issues, do you see that you have other technical problems?
Excellent job Irene !!!
Wow. I can understand when people say that i don't hear well, but that a tuner! A machine! Doesn't?
Duplicate post- and this is totally on purpose.
What Julie said. But David, setting aside your intonation issues, do you see that you have other technical problems?
Much love for Irene's poem!
Irene's poem is unquestionably the best (and in fact only good) thing about this whole thread.
I don't think Irene's joke is funny. That Dawson, Leon, Lydia, and even Julie think it is funny is quite pitiful. It is not good to laugh at other people, or musician at another musician. And with all of the talk about harassment these days.
David, the notes where you stop and say "accurate" are accurate. Those notes aren't the problem. And your Sarasate is mostly in tune, anyway. The previous video of the Sarasate was mostly in tune as well -- good enough for an amateur, even in public performance, as I noted previously.
I changed the settings on the camera: turned off the audio settings,
:-) :-) :-)
Hon Do is right. People can offer constructive comments without poking fun. Or refrain from commenting, as your mother may have taught you.
Gabriel solof, thank you very much for the support,
David - before I comment on the recording can you answer this?
Hon Do , I agree, and I think David should stop laughing at us!
Here is the comparison:
Hon Do wrote:
Hon Do: And you registered here yesterday only to harrass the people who have written very meaningful comments and given thoughtful advice throughout the TE`s numerous threads - and who in response for their efforts have been accused of jealousy and prejudice by the TE. To use your own words: pitiful.
G (low) Bb (low) D (low) G (ok!)
David that you don't hear being not in tune may have to do with your violin, if it is a violin-shaped object with totally worn out strings to boot, the resonances you normally get when playing in tune will simply not be there. So, perfectly in-tune notes will not "stick out" and everything seems fine to you. In addition the problem may have to do with bowing, you can only get a resonant sound when you bow with the right amount of pressure. And on lesser violins you typically need quite a lot of bow speed.
I want to hear this piece played slowly and in tune David.
David K, you are pushing for one world government, and once ran for the office of Israeli Prime Minister?
Hon Do said: I don't think Irene's joke is funny. That Dawson, Leon, Lydia, and even Julie think it is funny is quite pitiful. It is not good to laugh at other people, or musician at another musician. And with all of the talk about harassment these days.
+1 for Irene's poem, but scroll back to Jan 12. I mentioned "Green Eggs and Ham" several days ago! However, I was not hinting at David's intonation, only on his choice to play whilst seated on an exercise bike. The images in the book ("not in the dark" and "not on a train!") came to mind.
Paul, stop harassing ;-)
Hi,its interesting how these 'paganini ' threads are evolving
P R A C T I C E
This is in some ways really an interesting thread. In the three-hour challenge thread it was pointed out (quite legitimately) that some of my intonation on that caprice was suspect (ok, most, at least on the early runs), which made me dig a bit deeper into this question of my perception of intonation and tone on recording.
Seriously- i don't know what you are talking about -
Curious what audio setting you changed? (I doubt that is my issue, but one could always hope!)
Francis, the ring and resonance of the instrument is very useful for discerning whether or not we're really in tune. That's why we tend to play more in tune on better instruments that provide more of that, with strings that have rich harmonic content.
David, you're not playing slowly enough for the tuner to do the pitch detection and display it, I believe.
David Krakovich wrote:
So, on today's edition of Amateurs Playing Badly, here's a video:
I like the strobe idea for a tuner.
The tuner is indication, I'm not going to "scrub" every note with it.
David K, do you consider yourself to be "teachable", or do you think you have everything figured out already?
David B., he’s not only teachable, he’s also electable! ;)
As several people have pointed out, intonation isn't the only challenge here. You've not really commented on anything besides your intonation- I assume because you can't blame all the other stuff on faulty equipment.
@Hon Do, no need to worry about the OP. He has the thick skin to deal with the entire v.com universe, as he claimed and as it happened.
This thread is a classic example of how outrage is the most contagious and addictive emotion, and that's why news outlets all focus on stories that elicit it. Outrage keeps people coming back. It's fascinating to see so many people complain about these threads, or about David's behavior, when in reality the quickest way to shut it down would be to simply disengage.
"1. What sort of intonation temperament does your "tuner" use?"
David, can you hear that I'm out of tune? Because the intonation in my recording is definitely not pure.
I like Erik's post, very thoughtful.
I’d forgive his poor tone and intonation if he played it while riding a pogo stick. Maybe he’ll do that next.
This is his