Hello all. (I believe this to be) a fairly simple question for you all. In the third bar of Mozart's G major concerto there is a trill on the C natural. I was just just wondering about what the best way to execute it would be?
Thanks in advance!
I do C-D-C-B-C D E G F# F#
I do like Joel.
The usual convention for Mozart and earlier is to trill from above. I play this eighth note C "trill" as 4 32nd notes: D-C-B-C - and then go on to D, E, etc. Not a "real" trill, more of a "turn."
Agree with Gemma and Andrew.
I knew to start on the upper note, it just didn't sound right. Thanks all for your help
It actually depends on the context. In this case I would agree with Joel+Paul and start from the C. From what 2 of my teachers Igor Ozim and Reinhard Goebel (both experts in historical performance practice) explained to me, one only starts on the upper note of the trill if the previous note has a greater distance of a 3rd or more. So since this is a stepwise motion from B-C-D-E, they suggest to begin on the lower note in order to clearly show the scale. I completely agree with this and see how it makes sense and I think your instinct that it didn't sound right to start on the upper note is correct. Always trust your instincts! :) Also a note to Gemma K, in that video of Hahn you posted, she actually starts the trill on the C, not the D. Furthermore, she doesn't even play the whole sequence! From what I can hear in the slow motion setting, she plays C B C D E. Anyway regardless of what she did what she did with that trill, the most important thing is that she began on the lower note, C.
James, you are right that Hahn starts on C, but you are wrong that she plays just a CBC for that ornamented C we are discussing, she actually plays a CDCBC, if you playback slowly you cannot hear the D, it is chopped off the slowed-down audio, but you clearly see her third finger going twice to a D. fun discussion!
Jean Dubuisson hm yes you're right, now I can see her 3rd finger going twice to the D! But for some reason I don't hear it twice even in real time speed... maybe it was a slight execution error or maybe my hearing is a little off haha. In any case, when she plays the reprise she does indeed go to the D twice.
perhaps Hahn is human after all :-)
I just went and listened to Josh Bell, Gidon Kremer, and Julia Fischer playing this piece. My hearing isn't the best, but honestly it's really hard for ME to tell which way they're playing that ornament -- start on C or not? My best guess after listening to each a few times (and without the benefit of slow-down software) is that they're starting on the D and executing a basic turn. Of the three, Bell's was either the fastest or the least clean -- again I can't really tell.
Paul, the slow down function is built into youtube for free :) It's easiest to find if you are on a computer rather than mobile phone. Simply hover over the bottom right corner of the video screen and click on the cogwheel icon. There you will see a pop up menu which includes choice of speed.
I think Mozart has to take some of the blame for this.
How about the trills in the opening theme of the Allegro Aperto of Mozart 5? From the top also? Bars 47, 48, and 51, I believe.
This seems like unnecessary attention to detail to me. If you need to slow down recordings to figure out what exactly people are playing the question does have no practical relevance. I haven't worked on this piece for decades but I would play just c-d-c (or maybe d-c-d-c). No turn to b at this tempo. There are plenty of more important decisions to make along the way through this concerto.
Albrecht I'm right there with you, but discussing such minor points is an entertaining pastime too. Also just because I need to slow it down to hear it doesn't mean others do.
I was taught the trills from the top in Mozart 5 opening, at least.
Probably the top, since the previous note was the same and we have that in the back of our mind, however in this case I wouldn't actually mind if someone started from the bottom either. Opening of Moz G should definitely be from bottom though.
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