Opinion on purchasing a slightly cracked bow fixed by tight thread winding near the tip

I'm a beginner too, but I'm going by what my reaction would be to being offered such a bow.

I know Augustine Hadelich’s favorite bow that he uses for concerts is a repaired Simon bow which the previous owner snapped at the tip. A former Concertmaster of the NY Philharmonic dropped his Tubbs bow at a masterclass and broke the head but had it fixed by this same gentleman in NY who also repaired Mr. Hadelich’s bow and continues to use it as his primary bow. His repairs never come undone.

Even if the bow was once worth 3X the price, it is still no bargain now with a repair like that.

If that repair ever fails completely, the bow will essentially be worthless.

2nd question - what is the condition of the frog (original frogs in decent condition count for more value in old bows than makes sense to me)?

That thread winding is a common repair for fairly short diagonal breaks near the tip. A violinist colleague of mine has had a Lamy with such a repair for about 70 years - still holds together.

I have a F.N. Voirin with a fairly long diagonal break a few inches from the tip that was held together by a simple glue repair (either in NYC or previously in Europe - no thread winding) for at least 60 - 70 years. It broke there again about 20 years ago (when I let a violist use it in an orchestra rehearsal) and was professionally repaired the same way again - and is still in one piece.

I'd say if this bow can "shine" in tests that put it through all the virtuoso paces and you can get it for $1,000 - give or take - it is worth considering - but only if it is an authentic Charles Bailly.

So the policy of the workshop selling that bow is they'll allow 100% trade in (minus rehairing and maintenance) given I buy the next one costing at least 1.5x more. But yes, I'm concerning if the repair will actually fall apart after I use it for a while..
I've posted two pictures showing the repair on flickr:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/60144272@N03/R4M46S

So Andrew, how can I know the bow is authentic? I think the luthier is reliable, they claim it's Charles Bailly, but I don't think they have a certificate. I can see faintly the engrave at the stick above the frog with the name "Charles Bailly" (but the middle part of the name is kind of worn off). The bow is priced $2500. It'll be my only bow if I decided to get it as I'll trade in my current one that I bought from them.

And welcome Mabel!

Maybel, if you're not experienced you should not spend so much money on a bow. You'll get anything you'll need for much less. Otherwise chances are they'll have you for breakfast...

The thread repair looks like that on my friend's Lamy.

I second the recommendation for Klaus Grunke, and I'd also recommend checking out Manoel Francisco, A. Carvalho (Arcos Brasil), and this fun bowmaker John Greenwood up in the San Francisco bay area.

Gene, thanks for the violin shop suggestions, I'll check them out.

You could talk to my current luthier, Jeff Sahs, but he’s in Sacto. He’s another decent guy too. I just don’t know his instruments yet. Only had him do work for me, of which I am satisfied.

Superglue is extremely strong, and it's likely the wood around the glue will fail before the glue bond itself ever does. I find it hard to believe anyone uses Gorilla glue. When I've used it to bond wood, it expands while drying in a really weird way, seeping out of the joint like foamy amoeba. I'd much rather use either CA, Tightbond, or hot hide glue to repair wood.

I'd just say to consider the bow but have other luthiers or bow makers have a look. Do your homework.

The wrap looks typical for that sort of repair. I have a nice English bow that Paul Siefried wrapped for me in a very similar way. He also wrapped a Bazin cello bow that had the same malady.

The depreciation for a lift is much less than that of a break. Great to purchase, almost impossible to sell.
So, if you love the bow and don't have any illusions about it being some sort of investment, go for it! Just pay the right price for it.

I have the pleasure of playing a Dodd and a Tubbs that are wrapped that I could never afford otherwise.

So how does a ‘lift’ different from a regular fix of a crack? Now I’m a little paranoid of breaking the stick while I play..

One of the bows that I tried was labeled ‘Dodd’, it’s indeed one of the two bows that I’m deciding. It’s a copy for sure. I don’t know the actual maker but it’s $800 cheaper and plays pretty well too. If it’s not the price, it’s really confusing for me to know if a label means the maker or a copy!

Nuuska, what you're seeing in the photo may not be the break in the stick, but the end of the thread being pulled back under the wrapping to secure it. I wouldn't know which without examining the bow more closely

You can figure anything being sold by a shop was either bought by the dealer for half (or less) than his selling price - or is a consignment. I would offer $1,500 -- unless the bow is so incredible that it would make a major improvement to my playing - and I could afford it. But that would mean no trade in!

https://swansonbows.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/fixing-a-bow-lift/

As I thought, a lift is the beginning of a crack, and a thread wrap is apparently a standard method of fixing it. He goes on to say that the bow has basically no value anymore, except that of the frog and button. Price seems high based on that.

David, that's an interesting point, and a photo can never replace a look at the real thing. But if you zoom into the first photo, then you can easily see that the line we are talking about isn't straight at all, like the pulled back thread end definitely had to be, but irregularly jagged - just that kind of how one would expect when breaking a wooden stick...

That's why I dont believe it's the thread we're looking at. Monofilaments simply do not behave this way... Cracking wood does.

No, the end of a wrapping is not always pulled underneath. At the beginning of the winding, it can start out underneath, with the overwrapping pulling it into a jagged line.

One of the reasons muslti-filament, or organic-based threads can be preferred is that they can be more resistant to slipping, as you have noticed on your sutures. They also provide a much larger glue surface area.

I wish you a pleasant trip to Paris! Enjoy the Strads...

Sadly, Nash Mondragon passed away back in March of 2015. His former apprentice Jose Cruz, an expert restorer, now runs the shop. I used to visit them a lot back in the early 2000's when I was in the bay area more regularly. It's still located upstairs in a nondescript section of buildings on Market Street. There's plenty of street parking nearby.