Spiccato/Sautille and Kayser Etude 24
One of the pieces I am playing for my upcoming audition is Kayser's etude no. 24. I can play it very quickly with detache strokes and I've seen many videos online of students playing the etude with detache and not the bowing indicated in the book. I've been struggling with my spiccato bowing and my teacher seems to have a difficult time helping me learn it. I've spent a lot of time online viewing tutorial videos and I've spent quite a bit of time myself experimenting with my violin and bow trying to get a good sound.
First of all, recognizing that spiccato and sautille are not the same thing, which bowing do you think is appropriate for this etude? For the fast tempo I'm leaning toward playing with a sautille stroke.
Second, I'd appreciate any and all advice concerning both strokes.
As far as I can tell the major difference between the two is the active vs "passive" nature of the strokes. According to violin master class the sautille is closer to a tremolo stroke but toward the middle of the bow where the bow will start to bounce on it's own. The spiccato however seems to be more "active" in the sense that each stroke is deliberate for each note and the bow is "thrown" against the string one by one rather than the seemingly constant motion of the sautille. My teacher seems to insist on the lower third of the bow being used for the spiccato, but at faster tempos I consistently gravitate toward the middle of the bow or the tone becomes too choppy and loses it's rhythm.
Another question I have regarding the bows is the thumb as index finger for the spiccato and the pinky for the sautille. I've read some players lift the pinky for the sautille, would you recommend this or keep it down. As for the spiccato people seem to have different opinions on whether or not to increase or decrease the pressure on the thumb and index figure when doing this stroke, what do you suggest?
Mid-bow sautille really won't work for octaves because it's a bit too "pecky" to effectively grab both strings (and also, the rebound that the strings give when playing 2 strings at once is less than only one string, so you can't use the natural springiness of the bow as effectively anyways).
Playing off the string is a big subject. I'd contribute the following random observations.
Thank you both for the advice. I think the biggest issue I am having is that my right hand is far to stiff and I need to work on developing flexibility in my wrist for these strokes. Also I should note I accidentally wrote Kreutzer in the title originally, but the etude I am studying is Kayser 24 not Kreutzer, what bow stroke do you think is appropriate to play for that piece?
You may find this of help, or not.
Spiccato vs. Sautille ? Perhaps I am not advanced enough to appreciate the distinctions. One word is Italian, the other French. For me there is a gradual transition between the high, slow, loud, arm bounce, and the fast, light, mostly finger bounce. The amount of horizontal motion also varies. The bow wants to bounce; The string and the bow act like springs, and gravity does most of the work. Some players have trouble because their bow hold is too firm or locked. Others have trouble preventing it from bouncing. Go outside an dribble a basketball; High, slow, mostly with the arm, Then gradually get lower, faster, and let the fingers take over.