After trying Evah Pirazzi Golds for a few months, spending the $120, and being dissapointed, I am thinking about finding different strings.
Does anyone have experience with other powerful soloist strings that will last me until april, when I'll be performing the Mozart Concerto No.4?
Kaplan Vivos?
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If you're going to play a concerto with orchestra, change your strings 2 weeks before the performance, and then a few days later, go see your luthier to fine-tune your set-up. (See your luthier at least a week before, prior to any dress rehearsal, but after the strings have had a few days to settle.)
This isn't the time to cheap out on strings. Given that your performance isn't until April, but I'm guessing that you're rehearsing now, change your strings now, and then again 2 weeks before the performance.
Nothing you put on now is going to sound its best in April, even if the overall string longevity is good.
Have you tried PI G D A + Larsen gold E? My favorite combination.
Cheers Carlo
I found Kaplan Vivo's to be good strings, and though quite loud they contained a fair amount of richness/complexity on my violin. If Evah Greens are turned up to 10, Vivos are definitely turned up to 11 or more. They seem to have good longevity.
Evah Golds are great strings but I don't find them practical because of the lifespan and quick decline in quality. They seem to work on more instruments than Evah Greens as well.
Warchal Brilliant are another good string in the same sound family as the above. They don't last as long as the Vision family strings, but they are less expensive. They last longer than the Evah products in my experience.
I agree with Lydia on changing your strings now and put on a fresh set before the performance. I might not agree on having luthier adjustments that close to the concert though, unless you are really familiar with that process and your luthier.
Importantly, you don't know if a string that is loud under the ear will actually project in a concerto situation. EPs are "louder" than EP Golds, for instance, but because they are less complex -- i.e., they have less overtones -- I've found that EPs don't have as much projection as the EPGs.
The more radically different your string set from the previous one, the more it's likely you're going to want a luthier adjustment to go along with it.
Anyone who performs (or competes/auditions) regularly should develop a good working relationship with their local luthier, in order to ensure that their violin always sounds as good as it can. Small adjustments can make a big difference.
They just didn't give me the response of the bow (Concerto. No.3 in D requires fast action) and I always felt the strings were dragging behind.
Which strings have extremely fast reponse?
Strings are very personal to the violin, too. If your instrument has relatively sluggish response, that has to be factored in too.
Mozart 3 is in G major, by the way, not D.
Other than the EP gold-wound G, which I found sluggish on both of my violins, this set has great response. Most people seem to be using the silver-would G anyway, and it responds very well.
It's hard to equate more or less tension of a set to better/worse response. In addition to whatever characteristics the string design brings to the violin, you are essentially giving the instrument a sound post adjustment as well by either increasing or decreasing the amount of pressure on the top. If the instrument has too loose a post fit, you might find that a higher-tension set increases the perceived response.
Some people mentioned Peter Infeld (PI) strings. They are a good option as well, and share some characteristics with the Vision Solo / Vision Titanium family.
Most quality strings are "professional". Some are affordable, others aren't. Dominant, Tonica, Zyex, Brilliant Vintage are all "professional" even if more affordable. "Soloist" is always a musical role-strings suited to solo works can be used for Chamber. Some violins do not do well with strings with a "solo" attached to their name, or with "the string for soloists!" note attached to their descriptions.
I like the now "old" Titanium Solo as well-nowadays affordable, and they do even have "Solo" attached to their name (not that it really matters, of course). Tension is "normal"-not too high. They do not last as well as gut, but do better than EP longevity-wise. The expensive Titanium Solo E is really good, despite the rather absurd price.
The more you have big swings of weather with the season, the more often you need adjustments.
I've played concertos (rehearsals and performances) on Dominants, Obligatos, regular Larsens, Larsen Tziganes, Larsen Il Cannones, EP Golds, Warchal Brilliant Vintage, Passiones, and probably some other strings I'm forgetting. I suspect the differences were far more apparent to me than anyone else. One of the reasons that I recommend changing right before the start of rehearsals (if you have a few weeks of rehearsals) is so you can decide whether a string combo works in that setting.
They are surprisingly great strings for being essentially the first synthetics. I would have expected more advances in 50+ years! And I've tested and played in concert nearly every string on the market.
You can take Dominants as a baseline, for most violins; they're a good-quality, neutral-sounding synthetic. So from that baseline, EP Golds will push most violins into a little more brilliance and resonance, possibly at the cost of some speed of response, a sense that the violin is being overdriven, or the like. But it won't take a violin that doesn't have a big soloistic sound with Dominants, and turn it into one that does.
If you are expecting a "wow" from strings, you are expecting too much.
Every person that we have switched to these strings has kept using them! One factor people name is their extremely long life span. Another is what they do to the sound of virtually any violin--I like to say that it adds 20% more quality compared with any other string.
You may read some places that they are just Dominants with a different color silk winding, and this is definitely NOT true.
The E that comes with the set doesn't always work with every violin, but the strings are so cheap (they only come as a set) that you can buy your choice. One that works well is the Thomastik tin-plated carbon steel E, but this affects the sound of all the other strings, too. It's a bit like a gold string, but less so--not good all the time, too. But the other Rondos are amazing.
I'm also substituting the Evah Gold gold E for the Evah Gold steel E, so no gold on bottom or top.
the violin shops here want $105 for the Evah Gold (silver) G, crazy eh?. I'm in Canada and getting it from Gostrings in USA. with the exchange and shipping it's still coming in at $60 Canabucks. Yikes.
not much choice tho, as I really like full Evah Gold set on my busking fiddle. Come spring I'll be playing it about 3 1/2 hours, 25 days out of 30. I'm prepared to let them suffer a longer death, as it's only busking, but I may hafta re-think this.
Thanks to anyone kind enough to read my ramblings.
However, for major performances, I'd probably vote for maximum sound quality shortly after break-in, and just change more often. "Maximizes soloistic power" and "keeps that power for a long time" are mutually incompatible, I think.
Warchal gets my vote for the "starts good, remains good for a long time, isn't all that expensive", by the way.
If your strings are unwinding in 2-3 months on 1 hour of practice a day, the set is defective and you should get a refund. It's rare for modern synthetics to unwind, period; I haven't experienced this since childhood (and even then, not with strings less than a year old). If you've tried multiple sets like this, I'd look into your supplier -- are they supplying genuine strings, or, say, cheap Chinese knock-offs in counterfeit packaging? (Try reputable string dealers: Shar, Southwest Strings, Quinn, etc.) Or you may have rough edges somewhere on the violin, but in that case it would more likely affect just one string, not all of them.
I haven't tried the Rondos -- shops that carry them have told me that they're pretty Dominant/Vision-like. Michael, would you make the same comparison? (Perhaps more to the Visions than to Dominants, or versus PIs?)
The choice to do a limited-distribution string is interesting, though.
TIs have been around for awhile, too.
I too wonder why these strings aren't available to everyone.
And then there are Belcanto viola strings - sold in Europe, but not in the US.
"Our Rondo strings are indeed being sold by luthiers only. This way our company wants to support their trade."
Still, it remains an odd business decision, especially if they are indeed unique and long lasting.
This is standard practice in the woodwind world as well. A number of manufacturers create special line models that are only available in brick-and-mortar shops and not online sales.
I also bought a dozen sets (minimum purchase) of TI, which I won't even use on rentals (what they were designed for--as a cheap fleet string). I use them when someone comes in with a $50 Ebay violin wanting strings.
Any technical data offered to you by Thomastik? Different tensions and options? Or is it more of a one-size-fits-all approach as in EP Gold, Vision Solo, Passione Solo, etc.? No disrespect meant, and I am glad these Rondo are working for most.
Best wishes.
Could you mention other strings that you have used that you did not also like? You know its mostly trial and error, and as some other people said before maybe lower tension could do the trick, but maybe not.
A not-so-scientific way to find out whether your violin would benefit from lower tension is to tune it half step down, and check the difference...But as I said it could mean nothing.
If you use your violin for about an hour a day, you should not need to replace your strings every 2-3 months (Yet, you never know, it depends on playing styles, hand precipitation et)c. As it was mentioned before synthetics are supposed to have a 120-150 hours lifespan, but that's what I hear from some manufacturers and some players (who play lots of hours/day).
Personally, I am starting to accept that a string set if handled properly (cleaning etc) could last longer than that, provided that you can tolerate a small "downfall". But as long as my strings do not go crazy, produce wolf notes, and they play in tune , I am ok. We do not need to go mad if we have an instrument paired with a string set that you know, still work well together. With an average daily use of maybe 4-6 hours I could have 2-3 Dominant sets every year. (I would change the E in a monthly basis although)
Anyway, when I personally stopped using EP Golds, I found Obligato and Evah Pirazzi more responsive on my instrument . Vision Titanium Solo was great too, in terms of response.
RO01, e, Multilayer steel core, Tin coated, 8.1, 17.8
RO02, a, Synthetic core, Aluminum wound, 5.6, 12.3
RO02A, a, Carbon steel core, Chrome wound, 6.0, 13.3
RO03A, d, Synthetic core, Silver wound, 4.7, 10.3
RO04, g, Synthetic core, Silver wound, 4.7, 10.3
Winding colors look similar to Dominant at the tailpiece end, but are orange at the peg end. Interesting that they offer a steel core A (which has a brown stripe at the peg end).
I've had them on for a few hours on the instrument, and my initial impression is very positive. They aren't quite as punchy as PI, but have a very quick break-in/pitch stabilization time like the Vision line. Compared to the "textured" string sets like EPG or Kaplan Amo, it has a more clear, ringing, quality. I have a couple chamber music concerts coming up in the next two weeks so I'll have more feedback once I get a chance to put it through a consistent pace of daily rehearsals and recorded performances.
Note, I did not put the E string on. I just tried out the Optima Goldbrokat Premium Steel E (26) a few days and it is absolutely fantastic. It also works really well with the Rondo G/D/A.
So I don’t doubt what Mr. Darnton is saying at all about Rondo strings. Perhaps it is assumed that high end professional players frequently bring their instruments to luthiers and it is a niche market. (How much are the Rondos?)
As for the similar markings to Rondos, I’ve long wondering why some sites list some top violinists as playing with Dominants - it seemed very odd. It would make a lot of sense if they were Rondos instead and were mistaken for their similar thread.
My violin doesn’t like Evahs (any) or Passiones or a number of other synthetics I’ve tried. Olivs and Eudoxas sound best on mine. I haven’t found a synthetic that can match the richness. Maybe it’s just most responsive. I tend to use heavier gauge strings too. I’ve wanted to try the Warchals but they always seem to be out of stock of what I’m looking for when I look. Maybe Lydia’s suggestions will work for you, but my thoughts run along those of Adalberto. I have no experience with the Rondos, and so can’t comment on them but then maybe Mr. Darnton could send you a set?
If I take a look at my Strad Viotti poster on the wall from TheStrad, it has an Infeld Blue G, Infeld Red D/A, and a Gold Label E.
On the subject of E strings, I should mention that there's a Dominant variety described as tin-plated carbon steel that we use a lot. I find the normal Dominant, and the Rondo E, also, to often be too thin sounding, and the tin-plated steel fixes that. We'll mix in a different E with a Rondo set if the buyer wants, for the change in price.
The tin-plated E heads towards a gold-plated string sound, without going too far in that direction (I usually don't like gold-plated Es); a bit smoother, less crashy, dense and strong, compared with a normal E. It sounds like a heavier gauge, without being heavy. However, it affects the sound of all of the other strings--sometimes better, sometimes worse, so we don't always use it. It's worth trying, though, and is not expensive at all.
The open clarity of the Rondo set that Gene describes is one of the things people like about those strings.
Thomastik's decision to sell Rondo only through shops was driven by the fact that these days people buy strings on the web, and come to shops much more rarely. I welcome this concept because one consequence of infrequent visits is that often we have only gotten to see problems with violins after they've had a long time to fester. I like visitors to get a checkup when they come in (we don't charge for that) to nip any problems in the bud. I also will change strings and lube pegs as part of that. Often people need and get my speech about how to pull their bridge up straight (the teacher's job to teach that!, but so many teachers aren't doing their job!). So going in to a shop isn't a bad thing. And yes, Rondos from our shop are a whole lot cheaper than that Ebay ad someone mentioned above, though it's interesting that someone thinks that they compete with other strings at that price.
Because of the lack of demand for many of the products and/or gauges I need, I am often forced to look online. NO ONE in NYC carries the Tricolore at all, so I am forced to buy them via Mr. Larson's website. That is the one advantage online retailers have-they can afford to carry whatever, whereas it won't make much economical sense to do the same for most shops, which I DO support (and hope you all do as well, whenever possible.)
Mr. Darnton, thanks for your help and honest reply above.
These are amazing pics indeed...I was aware of string corrosion due to sweating but I had no idea that it could get this far. Fortunately I am relatively lucky since I have not experienced such situations...
I would clean my strings with microfiber cloths, wine corks and sometimes with a cloth and a drop of alcohol (To everybody reading this who haven't tried it yet - Alcohol CAN destroy a violin's varnish so be extremely careful)....Did any of these help?
I'm not opposed to Thomastik supporting local shops. My nearest shop doesn't carry Rondo, and the closest that sells them is a ~2 hour drive. This isn't Europe where everything is (relatively) close and in 2 hours you'd be in another country -- Thomastik should consider this in their deployment.
Interesting that Michael said "a whole lot cheaper" than that ebay ad. When I called the nearest shop to inquire about availability and cost, I was quoted nearly the same cost as the ebay ad.
Rosin on the bow contact area of the string is, in my experience, the biggest disrupter of tone quality that players can immediately deal with. Additional weight off-center on the string causes the string to vibrate erratically instead of purely. I tell my customers to carry a small piece of green Scotch-brite pad in their cases and use it to rub off the caked rosin from the string on a regular basis. String truth is damaged by any irregularity in weight, density, etc, along the length of the string, and finger oils, scarce and distributed, are minuscule in their effect in proportion to that glob of rosin that accumulates on the string between the bridge and the board.
Alcohol is fine for this if you can manage not to get a single drop on your violin.
Recently Bodhan Warchal of Warchal Strings released a good string cleaning guide that shows us that alcohol is actually a bad idea. Abrasive pads are also not recommended.
www.warchal.com/faq/what_is_the_best_way_to_care_for_our_strings.html
It's a good read, and has some really interesting close-up string dissections.
I wonder, since Alcohol evaporates almost instantly, if we use tiny drops, wouldn't be ok? It would reach the core, but I don't think it should stay there forever...The coloring agent should stay there maybe for a long time but it would be dry after a while, right?
Have you ever seen how a violin string vibrates? The lens shape we see is just an optical illusion. The string rotates in more sophisticated shape. There is quite a sharp bent rotating clockwise with down stroke and opposite direction with up stroke https://ccrma.stanford.edu/realsimple/travelingwaves/Helmholtz_Motion.html
This is why the strings structure has be able to be bent and straightened several hundred times per second without creating excessive resistance.
We have only coloured the alcohol to green to allow you to see what remains if the alcohol get evaporated. Rosin remnant would be much less visible, since it would be almost transparent. But the poor visibility would not reduce it’s impact unfortunately.
That could explain why my strings sounded fuzzy after I cleaned them many many times with alcohol some years ago
By the way congratulations about all this research and photos that we can find in your website.
Bodhan -- Thank you for the research and for the continually interesting information.
Edit-- the E already on was a PI Platinum, which was a better fit for the rest of the setup than a Rondo E. Just a warmer, richer sound on all strings.
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