Strings stretching and longevity

But since I've gone to geared pegs (Pegheds or Knillings) tuning up strings is so simple that installing new strings and keeping them close to in tune has not been a real problem. Pirastro's "Flexocor-Permanent" strings are steel core but very good and pretty much tune up like a new steel E string.

I have found that playing does help get the strings to stay in tune a little faster - so does "overturning" but I don't like to do that.

I just installed a set of gut Tricolore strings (first time I've used gut in almost 50 years) and it's taken about a week to get them to stay in tune - and the silver-wound G-string has taken longer than the bare-gut A or D.

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nut          \ _________bridge

Then, run fingers or gadget along the strings a couple of times, so that every centimeter of string will have been bent. (If you use your fingers, use a cloth or it will hurt.) It was claimed that this trick has the same result on new strings as days of playing.

I didn't try it for myself, yet.

I once put an Obligato composite violin A on my viola (which is only supplied with a steel A): the extra tension due to the vibrating string length did not break the string, but caused it to stretch unevenly, drastically affecting intonation. (I now use an Eudoxa Aricore A.)

"Breaking in" is also a matter of easy bending at the nut and under the fingers. Nylon cores can last for decades, but with increasingly poor tone and intonation as the core becomes worn where the stresses are strongest.

I once tried half a plain nylon guitar E on my violin, hoping to get a gut-like sound. It soon became flattened where my fingers pressed. This was before the advent of Dominants.

Sure, if one hasn't changed strings for five years or so, the sound and playing characteristics of a fresh string could be rather jarring. ;-)

Stretching strings on another violin, or beyond their designed pitch will shorten their life span. Pirastro wrote about this. From my own experience, once relaxed, the string does not sound the same anymore.

Most of the modern strings settle in a matter of hours or days.

Moreover, one can hardly predict, how will be the particular tiny sound change work on a particular instrument and therefore how it will be perceived by the player. For example, if the string loses say 2 - 3% of its brightness, it may by minded or appreciated, depending on circumstances. From my point of view, I have nothing against prestretching strings on another instrument. 2 - 3 days should be enough.

In order to answer the original Carlos question: If you mind that any string needs to be broken-in in order to achieve its top quality, prestretching will not accelerate the process I am afraid.

Is the instant and full tuning stability the absolute priority for you? Our Brilliant and Amber synthetic core line strings do stabilize quite fast. In my opinion after two hours of playing you can play a performance, than a slight retuning might be needed next morning. (Karneol needs more time, there is a nylon core.)

The reason why some of our customers choose Russian or Avantgarde A strings is not a tuning stability issue as I know. It is manlny better response on some kind of violins (particularly in higher positions) and also durability (corrosion resistnace). They are wound by stainless steel instead of aluminium.

I can't comment about Infeld PI and EP Gold (among the pricier few I have not yet tried), but no other synthetic lasts as long as gut for me, be it Eudoxa, Oliv, Gold Label, Passione, or Tricolore.

I agree that the longevity of gut (except the E!), by which I mean retention of tone with age, exceeds that of synthetics by a wide margin, the exception being steel strings. I think synthetics lose their tone because of their inherent complex structure. A number of layers surround the core and you only need the interface between two layers, or a layer and the core, to start to fail under the normal usage of playing the violin, and you will have trouble.

However, the quality of synthetics is getting better and better. The best stringmakers aim to reach the same level of sound and durability with synthetic core strings nowadays. For example, Amber line core (W-core ®) is hydrophobic and therefore immune to absorbing perspiration and dirt of all kinds.

In any case, any violin string wound by common metals, as a silver or aluminium gets out of tune by wearing the metals off at the fingerboard area. The corrosion is also involved. This is why any string (even metal core one) gets out of tune by daily use. Now, there is a question whether we are going to benefit from the a still decent (or even great) sound of the worn string, if it gets out of tune. We can hardly play fifths, we need to put fingers differently on every particular string, and we therefore destroy our intonation notion.

It is pretty the same dilemma as drivers faced during the socialism in our country. The only western brand of tires that was occasionally available was Michelin. Some "brand lovers" did buy it saying: "Yes, it is three times more expensive than any Czech tire, but it has also three times longer life time. I can drive 120.000 km instead of 40.000 with the tires. And I am driving the Michelin, not a local junk!" Considering that the average annual mileage those times was not more than 10.000 km in our country, such guys drove the tires for 12 years time. Michelin's were nothing special on wet road even brand new. Rubber is getting harder and harder by time. Can you imagine how slippery they were after 12 years time (still meeting the legislative as for for the groove depth)? This is why there is no much sense to aim prolonging the durability of one product feature if it would exceed the life time of other features several times in my opinion.

For example, why does the massaging procedure above work? Apparently, it helps both for the first-hours detuning and for the initial change in sound color.

I'm a novice on the violin; the two times I had to deal with new synthetic strings, I didn't notice the color change so much, but the detuning was pretty bad. The first set took 2-3 weeks (at a first-time beginner practice schedule); the second set a couple of days with a semitone over-tuning after practice. (Both sets were of a reputable brand, though not Warchal. ;-) )

Judging by the traces of aluminium on my fingerboards (and fingertips), I can well believe that the windings wear out.

(I wish Warchal strings were easier to find! They're often out of stock at my local stores and I'm sad that Shar dropped carrying Warchals entirely.)

The initial stretching is simply a basic feature of any (almost any) synthetic material.

I recommend you changing strings at the end of your playing session. Retune the strings before going to bed. In the morning tune the violin, play a few open strings with high speed bowing (wide vibrating amplitude) and than a few tones loudly close to the bridge (slow bowing, higher pressure). Just a few seconds. Retune and you can start practicing.

The "tuning skills" is also a part of the musical education. Tuning should not be a problem for you. Try keeping your pegs in a good condition and ideal position for easy tuning (vertical). Ask your teacher for explaining the proper finger position at tuning. Than, tuning procedure will be a piece of cake for you. Never accept detuning of one semitone during the session.

You are right, we have not made a deal with Shar at the end. But there have to be many other sellers I guess, we supply our US wholesale partners regularly. You know, it is what we call vicious circle. Although starting in 2003, we are still the "latest newcomer" among reputable stringmaking brands in the USA. Retailers are reluctant to stock products they not sell in bulk daily and musicians can hardly learn the quality of our products since are not commonly available :-). But I hope it will be solved soon, our sale is increasing well. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

My luthier and I have had some discussions about my use of the Avantgarde A (on a JB Vuillaume). He thinks the nut should be adjusted to accommodate the steel string if I continue to use it, but he recommends against a fine tuner because it changes the weight of the tailpiece. The tailpiece has a clear impact on sound on this violin.

Stability of the Avantgarde A once it's been on the violin for a couple of days is excellent. The tiny amount that it goes out of tune would be much more easily dealt with using a fine tuner, unfortunately. But for the first few hours, it requires more frequent significant re-tuning, more like a synthetic breaking in.

By the way, I hate tuning because the recommended way -- wrap your hand around the scroll, and push the peg in slightly when you turn it -- is impossible for me. My arms are short and I come nowhere close to being able to cup the scroll of my full-size violin (Messiah Strad pattern, so perfectly ordinary in size).

Nevertheless, we do not recommned tuning it by peg. Tou can hardly avoid overtuning and by overtuning you stretch the helix and reduce the unique efect (feature). At the end, you would turn your Avantgarde into Rusian A more or less in fact.

Keeping your tailpiece free form any adjuster is a always good idea. We recommend tuning it with what we call "Smart tuner" https://shop.warchal.com/products/string-fitting-fine-tuner

Just be sure using rather the first half of the screw thread. So after stretching the string, you might release the screw a bit and retune the string by peg once. Afterwards, you will be able to ajust the small pitch diferences easily.

I understand that synthetic strings will creep a bit after being brought to tension. The part that I'm curious about is why this has such a big effect on the tone (based on what people write about it). I have hypotheses along two lines: (1) it reduces the bending stiffness of the fiber core - although I think synthetic strings usually have a stranded core that don't have so much to gain in flexibility; (2) the metal winding somehow gets a bit loose, which also affects flexibiliy. I'd guess that most of the bending stiffness of a string is due to the metal winding.

Regarding the 'semitone over-tuning after practice': I meant that after practice, I tune the new strings to G# D# A# F; at the next day's practice they had already dropped below G D A E (not sure about the E-string). It would of course be pretty horrible if the strings detune a semitone within one practice session.

On one of my violins I use removable tuners because there are occasions when I might use gut strings, including the E. A tailpiece with inbuilt tuners is therefore not a choice.

I've thought about afterlength tuning and wonder if the concept is a bit overblown - within reasonable limits of course. Unless you're using plain gut there is going to be winding on the afterlength which adds weight to the string, thereby altering its tuning and resonance.

In addition to the idea of doing a final rosin removal with a credit card edge (as suggested in the Warchal piece) it seems to be common around these parts to use one's thumbnail to scrape the strings to remove accumulated rosin (I learned that from a former long-time principal 2nd violinist of the SFO - but notice many others around here seem to have as well).

Rosin transfers from the bow hair to a clean string immediately as one makes the first stroke of the bow and it is the bond between rosin on hair and string that causes the friction behaviors that result in what we hear. Excessive rosin build-up can spoil the sound and intonation because the frictional behavior (or hair-string interaction) has changed and the vibrating string is no longer uniform along its length.