$400 bow really insane?

September 13, 2006 at 07:20 PM · I've been playing violin for three years now and am now starting to get more serious about it. My violin/bow set cost me $100. My violin I don't have a problem with, but my bow is another story.

It's horribly warped, for one thing. And as a result of 1) my not knowing how to take care of it and 2) letting other people touch it, there's a good two inches of gunk on the hair where I can't play. It's really getting frusterating.

I was thinking about the Coda Conservatory, but my mother thinks it's insane for me to want a $400 bow. She saws we'll look into a $20-$60 one.

Is it really crazy for someone who's only been playing for three years to want a bow like that? I feel like I'm being limited by my bow...but maybe it's just my technique.

Sorry for rambling, but I've been considering a new bow for a long time now and don't want to waste my money.

Replies (57)

September 13, 2006 at 07:26 PM · Don't limit yourself. You will notice a big difference in a $400 bow, and you'll probably like it a lot. Isn't that a good enough reason?

September 13, 2006 at 07:38 PM · if you're serious about playing, get the $400 bow.

September 13, 2006 at 07:43 PM · I want a coda bow too lol...

But If your violin and bow (case, etc.) only cost you $100 I would suggest getting a better violin also.

September 13, 2006 at 08:01 PM · I would have no problem getting the better bow first. When you feel ready for a new violin (and you will need one) you'll already have a good bow.

A $20-60 bow isn't worth purchasing - esp. once you've passed the initial 'trial' phase of getting a violin and deciding you want to continue on with the instrument.

The only other thing I can suggest is to save a bit more and invest in a new package.

September 13, 2006 at 08:13 PM · Yeah, the violin I'm pretty much fine with. It's not top-quality by any standard (the A string gets a bit whiny sometimes), but it works for me quite well.

I'm on a very (very) limited budget, does anyone know of good bows that aren't expensive. (by limited budget I mean that the $800 Classic might as well be $60,000 for what I can pay)

September 13, 2006 at 09:43 PM · "She says we'll look into a $20-$60 one."

(I say this with a nice tone) your mother is completely ignorant of the economics of violins. She is imagining that somehow "20 to 60 dollars" is a legitimate range with a bottom and top, where the 60 is 3 times better than the 20. Of course what she is really missing is that 20-60 bucks is "in the noise" and the real dividing lines are more like (for bows):

<100

100-500

500-1000

1000-4000

4000 and up.

Of course those numbers can be massaged. But the point is that starting from where you are, there is no change going "up" to a $60 bow.

The other thing to understand is that the bow is going to do more for your sound than the violin is. This is another thing that the uninitiated will never think of, and not believe. But it is true.

Your $400 bow is not a waste with your cheapie instrument, if you are in fact treading water trying to learn with a bent gnarly stick.

One final thing: In the under 500 category, it is pretty hard to find any decent wooden bows. In the under 100 it is essentially impossible, and you would be far better off with a Glasser fiberglasss.

Once you get over approximately 500, you start to see real pernambuco, and better craftsmanship.

These are my observations--made as a parent of a player who has played for 3 years and is most definitely ready to move up. So you are not alone.

September 13, 2006 at 08:34 PM · Susan,

If you will send me your address via pm, and I will GIVE you a very nice pernambuco bow. Not only that, I will pay for the shipping and insurance. How does that sound?

Kind regards,

John Thornton

September 13, 2006 at 08:33 PM · Shar sells a Musicary carbon fiber bow for $249 which might fit your needs. It comes in different weights and is a good bow for the money. If I were you, however, I would first take John up on his generous offer.

September 13, 2006 at 09:51 PM · Has anyone tried a Jeandel Carmaux? It's only $250, but with the extreme tempature changes where I live (52-94 inside the house when the heat/air quits), I'm worried about a wood bow warping.

September 13, 2006 at 09:58 PM · sorry susan, Ive never heard of those bows, but I suggest you go with your initial thoughtof a coda bow. There bows are very nice and they are a very reputable company.

September 13, 2006 at 10:11 PM · A good bow can really help you make great leaps forward in technique. A few months ago I bought a really, really fine contemporary bow and it is so much more responsive than my old one, I can do so much more with it and as a result, my technique has improved! I strongly encourage you to get a good bow! Don't worry too much about the money, you can always earn some cash washing cars or playing gigs or whatever. :) Good luck!

MG

September 14, 2006 at 01:16 AM · definately get a new bow, a coda aspire would be good too, not as expensive, but much better than what you have

September 14, 2006 at 01:44 AM · I've been playing for about a year and got a Coda Classic about 3 months ago and love it.

September 14, 2006 at 02:26 AM · Go with the coda, or maybe the free bow. Maybe just have it be a Christmas or birthday gift so that your mom doesn't feel so bad about spending the $$. Does your mom realize how much violins and bows really cost? Professional bows run in the thousands and tens of thousands of dollars. Good student bows for advanced students are at least $800-$1500 dollars. I know you've just been playing about 3 years, but it might help your mom to know it's just expensive unless you want absolute junk or unless a kind person like John decides to give you free stuff.

-Laura

September 14, 2006 at 04:29 AM · I think for the budget minded people, CF bows are certainly the best choice. A less than $200 CF bow can be very good, often outperforms $400 wood bow. Besides wood bow can be of high maintenance.

My luthier is a wood bow die-harder, but he told my CF bow was very good especially for fast passages.

September 14, 2006 at 01:39 PM · I'm a purist, can't stand carbon fiber. For me the mechanically perfect and artificially uniform material takes something away from the sound. I can't really describe it very scientifically but sometimes it seems to me that the tiny little flaws and irregularities in an organic material such as pernambuco add a sort of life to the sound (of course, this is all assuming a GOOD pernambuco bow.) Just my crazy 2 cents, not trying to put you off CF or anything, I know lots of people (students and professionals) who have carbon fiber bows and are very happy with them. Go with what works for you.

September 14, 2006 at 01:47 PM · Hey Maura,

1. Carbon fibre is far from "perfect" and in fact has the same sort of fundamental flaws as wood. The number, degree etc is a function of:

a. the manufacturing process

b. the qualities of the textile preforms

c. the skill of the craftsman

2. It isn't the little flaws that make wood have its characteristic sound; rather it is the mechanical properties. Lignin has a different modulus, a different set of resonances, a different stress-relaxation exponent than epoxy. The same goes for comparing the carbon fibres to the cellulose fibres.

In fact a better choice in my opinion would be a composite of rubberized epoxy or perhapes epdm with aramid (kevlar or nomex) fibres.

September 14, 2006 at 03:01 PM · OK, I stand corrected... :)

September 14, 2006 at 04:20 PM · >If you will send me your address via pm, and I will GIVE you a very nice pernambuco bow. Not only that, I will pay for the shipping and insurance. How does that sound?

John, that's a very kind offer. Susan, take him up on it. The $$ invesment (or lack thereof) should make Mom happy, too.

September 14, 2006 at 05:33 PM · Yeah...not so sure she'd appreciate me giving out my adress, though. ;)

September 14, 2006 at 06:33 PM · From what you describe as your current bow, I absolutly agree that replacement is the way to go. I have concerns though about spending $400 on a bow for a violin that cost $100. You will definetly have an improvement in the quality of sound your instrument produces, but the instrument itself would limit how much you get out of the bow. On the other hand, asuming your already playing a 4/4 size instrument. You could spend the cash and then look at upgrading the instrument as well, which we all end up doing as our skill progresses. Personally, I'd be tempted to get a good $100-$150 bow and then think about upgrading the whole setup down the road.

September 14, 2006 at 06:47 PM · If one looks hard enough, he can get a $100 bow that plays extraordinarily well.

Of course, it may be a bit ragged looking. Often that's because it's been played and played! A good bow tends to be well worn by its user.

September 14, 2006 at 08:07 PM · What Kevin says is true; however it takes a knowing hand to find the good bow!

For a beginner, you need a friend expert to find that great bow.

It is best to try different bows. Then, within your present experience, you can find something that behaves better.

But the best of all is to have a mentor help you:-)

September 14, 2006 at 08:16 PM · Susan wrote:

"Yeah...not so sure she'd appreciate me giving out my adress, though. ;)"

Susan, ask your father, or mother, to contact me.

I will send you a very nice bow that I believe to be made by Ludwig Bausch, or by a member of his shop. A tiny bit of work needs to be done, but if you decide to accept my offer, I will even PAY for that before I send it.

Sincerely yours,

John A. Thornton

September 15, 2006 at 04:12 AM · Susan,

As far as carbon fiber bows go, you could try Jean Tabary Prism Violin Bow

List Price: $130.00

Some shops offer it at Sale Price of $116.99

This particular model has great endorsements from some top professionals, and they come in the following ten colors:

Blue, Bronze, Burgundy, Charcoal, Emerald, Gold, Pink, Purple, Red or Dark Red.

September 15, 2006 at 02:01 PM · ...if you want an affordable wood bow, you can try contacting John Martin...I have two of his, one for my violin and another for my viola...I'm very pleased with both bows...

I've also been fortunate enough to be able to 'test drive' some expensive bows (up to $5000) and violins just for the fun of it...and while the more expensive equipment is obviously better, even with my limited experience, I'm not remotely unhappy with my stuff either...

If you want to consider a package upgrade, call Steve Perry (Gianna violins) - I just checked out his website and he has some nice affordable stuff you might be interested in...

Or, by all means, take up John Thornton's offer of a bow...if you feel guilty getting it for 'free' then offer to buy it from him, I'm sure he won't mind...

September 15, 2006 at 03:40 PM · Several of the teachers I've dealt with use Coda bows as classroom demo bows. What they tell me is that a Coda compares well with a wood bow in the $1500 range, both tonally tonally and physically, but is much more consistent, day to day, which is why they particularly like to use it in the classroom, where it's best if things behave.

Sometimes you'll also find them in orchestras where players don't want to use their better bows in a crowded situation.

With those things in mind, I suspect that as your playing improves and you might move to a better violin, a Coda is the type of thing you'll still want to keep, for emergencies.

I have heard that the main differences in the Coda line are cosmetic, so one of the cheaper ones will do if the price is important, but even though they're synthetic, I also gather that they don't all act the same, so it's still best to try before you buy. Every bow will act differently on different violins and players, so you should be looking for the match that works the best for you and your violin, both.

September 17, 2006 at 09:07 PM · I have deleted my post pending more information.

Perhaps I am too trusting.

September 17, 2006 at 08:55 PM · Just so you all know, John Thornton has been banned from this site by the editors last Friday as well as from maestronet.com.

September 17, 2006 at 09:10 PM · Oh no!. What happened?

Thanks for a quick post Gennady.

September 17, 2006 at 09:08 PM · Trying to pass off (knowingly and willingly) bogus instruments as genuine articles is unlawful and is punishable by Law.

And those running the scam operation are being looked into.

September 18, 2006 at 10:50 AM · Susan, I recommend that you definitely upgrade to a better bow. When you buy an inexpensive violin outfit, the bow is usually the first thing you need to upgrade. You'll be surprised at what a big difference it makes. I teach beginners, and they all have problems playing accented notes in Allegretto in Suzuki book 1. I keep telling them that the key thing is keeping the wrist relaxed. If they still feel frustrated and skeptical of their potential, I say, "Here. Try my bow." They're amazed at how much easier it is to get the sound they want. Then they look forward to upgrading their bow. (No, I don't get a kickback on the sale of new bows.) I'm absolutely hooked on carbon fiber bows. I bought a Coda Conservatory bow a few months ago, and I can't go back to using a wood bow. I like my Coda even better than my entry level pernambuco bow. When you buy a bow, though, don't base your decision on other people's recommendations, even other v.commies. Bows and hands are very, very individual, and you have to test drive a few bows and see what is right for you.

I suppose John Thornton's offer was just too good to be true. Thanks for telling us about it, Gennady.

September 18, 2006 at 12:19 PM · Well, we had enough of John Thornton in the other thread; I held back on this one 'cos some other people, who usually also post here, seemed to ahve met him and endorsed his "free" offers.

I was still suspect though: his stories/reactions were just too nauseating for me.

So am glad someone finally banned him. Does this mean that the other poster who tried to back him up is also suspect?

Susan, as a parent, I think you will have to start educating your parents about prices in the violin world. It does come as a shock in the beginning but if you have been playing for three years you have already shown your commitment, and you will find that better equipment is not a luxury but a necessity.

Just to give you an idea of timeline, my 12-year old has been playing 4 years, and upgraded from his basic Chinese made student violin kit to a 1000 euro violin & bow (unexpectedly good price) after 2 years, and now we shall be looking to spend somewhere around 3000 or so for a full-size violin. And this is still at the very cheap end of the scale.

So no way you are exagerating, and as other people have said, it is something that you will use for many years to come.

September 18, 2006 at 03:06 PM · A far as Coda Bows go, I think they are excellent bows, and do compare favorably to bows costing far more. My viola Coda Classic plays better than any bow I own or have ever played (and I own about 20 bows, some of them over $2000, and have played with bows costing way beyond that). As a previous poster wrote, carbon fiber bows are NOT all alike. Although they are more consistent than wooden bows, there ARE differences in individual Coda bows. I tried out about a dozen when I bought my first one. They all played well, but some had a better "feel" to my hand. Weight can vary from bow to bow. I prefer a heavy bow. (I am a violist, yet I often play my VIOLIN with a 70.2 gr. viola bow.) You may not know yet whether you prefer heavy or medium or light. If you decide on a wooden bow, please have a knowledgeable string player test out several with you. If you go with Coda (or some other carbon fiber), the quality is generally good enough that you can probably do the testing yourself (but it wouoldn't hurt to have a pro along for the recommendations he/she might give).

September 19, 2006 at 07:24 AM · Coda bows are reputed to be more consistent with each other than most other carbon fibre bows, but they still vary quite a bit from one to another. I played three at the luthier's and could tell right away that one was less suitable for me than the other two. I brought the other two home and played with them for a while, and then I noticed each one's distinct personality. One was distinctly better suited for me than the other.

I agree that it's important to educate your parents about the worthiness of a $400 bow for someone who has only been playing for a few years. Be sure that they read this discussion. ;-)

October 6, 2006 at 03:55 PM · Just to reinforce some important points:

A good bow is much more important to a student than a good violin. this is because you can't develop proper technique with a junk bow. I started with a $75 ebay violin, just to see if I would like it. (I'm a former cellist) I knew within 2 weeks that i would be playing violin forever, so I bought a $2,000 Neudorfer bow. Wow, what a difference! My violin actually sounds WORSE, as the cheap bow was absorbing much of its nasty HF, but I enjoy playing SO much more.

FWIW, I tried several carbon bows, including a coda classic. I found them a little abrasive, and thought there was something a little off with the stiffness. However, they are certainly acceptable, and probably a safe bet for a student since it would be hard to find a bad one. They are also very easy to sell, since everyone knows what they are and their quality if fairly consistent.

While it is possible, IMO, to find a truly excellent used pernambico bow for cheap, you have to really know what you're looking for. You also have to have lot's of time to waste looking, and maybe have a source for cheap gasoline. (g) -But I found an amazing bow at a NYC dealer for $150. It is prolly about 100 years old, and made of perfect, dense, straight-grained pernambico. Such wood is basically impossible to come by today, unless a builder has some tucked away. This bow was prolly a workshop model, as it had no name, and the frog looked cheap (prolly replaced at some time. Luckily, I know what a bow should feel / respond like, and I know good sound. So, I put the bow to my strings, and was knocked out. Actually nicer than my Neudorfer.

Again, for a beginner, something consistent like a Coda is probably the way to go.

October 6, 2006 at 04:04 PM · I second (third, fourth, eighteenth, whatever) everyone's recommendations on the Coda classic. I looked into the CF bows myself and came close to buying one. I think they're an excellent value and you'll find a huge difference in your sound. And for the record, you wouldn't be the only one here whose bow is worth considerably more than her instrument. :) I plan to upgrade my violin within the next couple of years, but I'm very glad I went ahead and got the better bow immediately.

October 6, 2006 at 05:34 PM · I would definitely agree that a better bow is more important to a students development that a better violin. My bow, which I purchased last year for $1200, is also almost twice the cost of my violin, old bow, and case. This bow is purely amazing, it has helped my sound and playing overall incredibly. For example, playing staccato with this bow is so much easier than with my old bow. For you, I would suggest looking at carbon fiber bows, or maybe just trying a bunch of bows from different places. However, to get something really wonderful that is really special, you may have to spend a little more. When I went bow shopping, I was only planning on spending $500-$700, I looked at about 4 or 5 bows in this range, but I didn't find anything. Then I went back to the shop I had been going to so I could return the bows. I had decided that maybe I could wait a few years to get a new bow. But I tried a few more bows at that and I found my current bow. My teacher absolutely loves it; she thinks it is better than one of her bows that cost more. So you just have to keep looking, and sometimes you will find something really great. About the coda bows, at school we use coda conservatories, and the one I use seems to be a very good bow for the price. Maybe try a few bows from shar, I think you can try four at a time. Good luck!

November 6, 2009 at 03:37 AM ·

If I were you, I'd want to think about Glasser X series (saw one in eBay selling US$80) or maybe even a JonPaul Matrix. The JonPaul bow would cost near the US$200 mark but it does give results, in my opinion. I plan on buying one soon. Browse through eBay and Amazon and you might have some new ideas. :)

And, as far as chinese bows are concerned, it is nearly impossible to get a good one within $200. I got one for about 120 half a year ago, and now even the leather wrapping is coming off, and the nickel winding is rusting and rotting away.... you might want to look for US/European made ones, in my opinion, they're much more reliable. Yes, you might want a carbon fiber bow. (if you're rich, a carbon fiber violin too :DDDDD)

So relax and just take your time to browse through some good bows on the internet ;) If you plan on playing for the next 5000 years of your life you'll probably want a 600 pound Arcus or something. Just search the names. You'll be surprised at how much you see. :)

November 6, 2009 at 01:56 PM ·

Oh,my.gosh! I can't imagine what it is like to struggle along for 3 years on what is a very low-end outfit. Do you have a teacher who can explain to your mother in a positive & respectful way what a better violin & bow means? Can you work to earn part of the cost of a better bow & then a better violin? Do you practice faithfully and earnestly, to show your mom that this isn't a whim? Coda Conservatory is a very good, all-purpose bow. They come w/a lifetime warranty. You possibly pay a little for the name, since they introduced carbon fibre to the string-playing world. There are surely other comparable brands for a little less, but spending just $20-$60 is throwing good money after bad IMO. If money is the bigger issue, not just lack of understanding, and your teacher belongs to ASTA, he or she could apply for a give-away bow or violin for you in the association's manufacturer donation programs. Good luck!  Sue

November 6, 2009 at 05:27 PM ·

The original posting and most of the responses are 3 years old.  I spent $300 on a kit then (going for $400 now), and my teacher says I got a great deal.  2 years ago I had to replace the bow and rehairing alone (which the poster obviously needed) was $50!  (Obviously, I bought a new bow instead.)  I will be upgrading my bow soon but Allan Spears made a comment that chills me: his new expensive bow made his cheap instrument sound terrible!  In all the postings and responses I 've read about bows, this is the first time I've heard this.  It remains to be seen whether I'll be upgrading my violin also.

November 6, 2009 at 07:09 PM ·

No, it's NOT ridiculous at all.  Your mom would consider many much more insane than you then...     

If you love violin and have the money for it, why not!!!  It's not crazy to buy any bow if you like violin ennough to play some all your life (or for many years to come).  You'll just have a good bow now instead of later. (of course, you might buy another one when you'll become better and detect new needs but you can always sell your old one and have a bit money from this)    I have for my saying that you must always buy the best you can afford whatever your level.    Some disagree but why not, it can just help you even if many things have prooven that the violin or bow doesn't make the violinist. 

Good luck!

Anne-Marie

 

November 6, 2009 at 08:40 PM ·

No it's not. I'm sure it'll only make playing easier and more enjoyable.

November 7, 2009 at 02:51 AM ·

Here's a thought! Get a new hobby, trying out violins and bows.
When you get the opportunity, try and find a violin shop or two in your area, and identify you want to see the difference in your current instrument and some better alternatives. Let them decide which would be the best for you to try; possibly bring your violin and bow in so you can try them side by side.

Do not say you are currently planning to upgrade, although it would be fair to say that you will probably upgrade when you have the opportunity.

You can see for yourself what difference one bow makes over another; what one violin makes over another.
 

You may even plan in advance with the dealer so you stop by when they are slower than usual, rather than 'shopping' during their busier time.

Heck, I may even try this myself, except it will only get me to want another violin!

November 7, 2009 at 03:24 AM ·

Be careful Roland... : )

Anne-Marie

November 7, 2009 at 05:43 AM ·

 This topic started 3 years ago.

It did bring back some fond memories of the Gennady-Thornton-Kevin and Vince days.

November 8, 2009 at 06:28 PM ·

 From Gennady Filimonov
Posted on September 17, 2006 at 08:55 PM

"Just so you all know, John Thornton has been banned from this site by the editors last Friday as well as from maestronet.com."

From Gennady Filimonov
Posted on September 17, 2006 at 09:08 PM

"Trying to pass off (knowingly and willingly) bogus instruments as genuine articles is unlawful and is punishable by Law.
And those running the scam operation are being looked into".

So, Mr. Filimonov, what did you discover about "those running the scam operation"?  Were you able to track down the VILLANS? And were you assisted in this effort by anyone from the Maestronet website?  say, perhaps Mr. Jeffrey Holmes?  And did you, Mr. Filimonov, and/or Mr. Holmes file specific charges (through the D.A's. Offices) against  Mr. Thornton (in Brewton, Al.) or Mr. Huang (in Phoenix, Az)?  Were these men then arrested by city, county, state, or federal authorities and put in jail? And were trial dates then set in a COURT OF LAW in either or both jurisdiction(s)? And did a jury of their peers (in either or both jurisdiction(s) find either (or both) of them GUILTY of ANY CRIME? If so, were either of these men PRONOUNCED GUILTY and then punished and/or sentenced for their heinous crimes by the presiding JUDGE in either or both jurisdiction(s)?  And were these men then incarcerated in any appropriate facility, state or federal, in the USA?  If so would you please (publicly) inform the members of Violinist.com and Maestronet as to - "the rest of the story"?  (Thanks Mr. Harvey, may you rest in peace!)

I have one last question.  Mr. Filimonov,  how are YOU faring? Wait a second! Almost forgot to ask you this, Gennady.  Do you know where the highly regarded, highly famous, internationally known violin dealer, Dietmar Machold hangs his hat these days?  Seems that Machold's branch offices (in the US) no longer exist and rumor has it that some very angry (ripped off) clients  intend on skinning Machold alive - if they catch him alive. -  "Just so you all know".  # # #

November 8, 2009 at 08:59 PM ·

I have only been playing for about two months but have spent a lot of time reading and learning from all of the discussions on this site. You all have frequently spoken of the differences between better bows and violins, and at this point, I really didn't get what you were talking about.

Uh-oh....now I get it........

About 16 years ago, my husband inherited his grandfather's old fiddle. Unfortunately, I never got to hear him play, but apparently, he was a hell of a fiddler.

Anyway, a couple of weeks ago, I finally talked my husband into taking it and the two bows it came with to a luthier, and we picked it up on Thursday. To be clear, it is HIS violin--but, yesterday after much prodding from him, I said what the heck and tried both of the bows on my inexpensive student violin.

OMG, what a difference even to me--especially w/one of the bows. They were made by Conrad Gotz, and although the luthier said they were of quite good quality, I don't think they're especially valuable--maybe a couple of hundred dollars from what I saw on e-bay. Although, I'm sure they were a luxury way back when his grandpa bought them.

I also tried the instrument and found it to be a bit smaller than mine and a much more comfortable fit. So, I now also know a little more about the type of "fit" to look for when the time comes to upgrade. (still trying to understand what "growing out of a violin" means)

Well, just thought I'd share that little story to show that I now better understand what you were talking about.  My question now:  Is 2 months too early to want to buy a new bow!! :-)))

Phil

 

November 11, 2009 at 11:21 AM ·

 http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/1129/

 
 I  recommend this one to my students. It better then a lot of bows under $500 .You can't go wrong ,it's the best bang for buck.

November 19, 2009 at 05:12 PM ·

something very odd here. 

Just  above, there are two posts (dated 2006) that were entered a few days ago by  a member who has left the site in 2007????

Is someone hacking this system? and using other people's posts?

If so, that is a very serious violation.

I hope the editors look into this asap.

November 19, 2009 at 05:38 PM ·

Faye was just copying Gennady's 2 old posts and paste it in one post, including the HTML codings (I'm supposed) so it looks like it was posted fresh.

David Burgess for example often use the same way to quote someone else's posts too.

November 19, 2009 at 06:21 PM ·

I wonder what came about with the original poster, Susan???????

November 19, 2009 at 06:49 PM ·

 the second half of the second post by Faye, seems to have been made not by Gennady but by John Thornton to Gennady.

 

So it should have looked more like this, since it was a response by JT to GF:

From John Thornton

Posted on September 17, 2006 at 10:08 PM

"So, Mr. Filimonov, what did you discover about "those running the scam operation"?  Were you able to track down the VILLANS? And were you assisted in this effort by anyone from the Maestronet website?  say, perhaps Mr. Jeffrey Holmes?  And did you, Mr. Filimonov, and/or Mr. Holmes file specific charges (through the D.A's. Offices) against  Mr. Thornton (in Brewton, Al.) or Mr. Huang (in Phoenix, Az)?  Were these men then arrested by city, county, state, or federal authorities and put in jail? And were trial dates then set in a COURT OF LAW in either or both jurisdiction(s)? And did a jury of their peers (in either or both jurisdiction(s) find either (or both) of them GUILTY of ANY CRIME? If so, were either of these men PRONOUNCED GUILTY and then punished and/or sentenced for their heinous crimes by the presiding JUDGE in either or both jurisdiction(s)?  And were these men then incarcerated in any appropriate facility, state or federal, in the USA?  If so would you please (publicly) inform the members of Violinist.com and Maestronet as to - "the rest of the story"?  (Thanks Mr. Harvey, may you rest in peace!)

 

I have one last question.  Mr. Filimonov,  how are YOU faring? Wait a second! Almost forgot to ask you this, Gennady.  Do you know where the highly regarded, highly famous, internationally known violin dealer, Dietmar Machold hangs his hat these days?  Seems that Machold's branch offices (in the US) no longer exist and rumor has it that some very angry (ripped off) clients  intend on skinning Machold alive - if they catch him alive. -  "Just so you all know".  # # #" John Thornton.

 

But in my opinion, I think it is strange putting other people's old posts to make a point.

Carol.

 

November 28, 2009 at 02:03 AM ·

With due respect to your mom -- wow, she would think my $2000 bow was really crazy. 

Prices for individual instruments can be fickle and based on factors other than how they sound, but in general with price category, you get what you pay for.  Try a better bow and your eyes will be opened. 

November 28, 2009 at 05:14 AM ·

Like you, I've only been playing for three years. I had a decent bow that wasn't giving me any trouble, but when I spent a little over $200 and upgraded to a Coda Aspire, I found my playing was better. The more expensive bow is a tad lighter and seems much better balanced and easy to control.

November 29, 2009 at 04:58 PM ·

$400 USD for a bow may not be a bad thing depending where you look... recently i went to a fine instrument evaluation and auction youd be surprised what you can come across in that price range. one of the downsides is that most of the bows are in need of a rehair if it has hair or  minor restoration but im sure the quality would be much better than a "brand new " bow from a shop in the retail price range

September 21, 2011 at 03:36 AM ·

Hi Mr. Nelson,

finally someone who see it EXACTLY like me, THANK YOU ;-D!!

I have thought the whole long time, that his violins are never ever from DEL GESU, STRADIVAI etc.

Look please his violin on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUARNERI-DEL-GESU-1742-/290597258829?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a8f2464d

Thats to 100% not a Del Gesu, looks to new to me! Its a 19th C. violin, maybe German, or Czech violin for sure! Or as you wrote Hungarian!

Or its so funny that he thought, he could find today genuine authentic Del Gesu or Stradivaris, and that he should own ten of these ;-DDDD...

I am a collector, and make it since 7-8 years, but I think, I see faster then he when a violin is authentic or not. And he, who say he learned 30 years, oh dear...

But I don`t understand, why he believe no expert, but read books of books and believe all what they write there???

Ok, sorry for my bad english.

Hope you have understood?

But again, thank you very much Sir.

Hope it notice and know still more members, that he has almost no idea from violin making...

Hope on eBay  no one buy this violin for much money, but its strange, that he have 12 offers.?

Oh yes, have you read this,

I had to laugh so loud, after I have read that ;-):


Guest
Email

24/11/2005
10:46:32
RE: 275 year old, original, stradivarius 1731
IP: Logged

Message:
Dear Toni,

"A picture is worth a thousand words", don't you think? Several pictures should be worth a little more.

The first fiddle I ever saw was a Stradivari, or was it a del Gesu? I forget which. Suffice it to say, I don't care whether a Stradivari or a del Juicy is "certified as authentic", or not. I have seen and handled a violin "certified" by two different experts to be by a modern Italian maker from Turin. (Felice Oliveri, 1901).

The experts failed to notice the remains of the original label underneath Oliveri's label and the finest restorations done to a fiddle my eyes have ever seen, and most likely will never see the equal of it again, anywhere. I went over the violin with a powerful magnifying glass and saw details of the restoration work the owner never knew existed. When I stated my findings, they were stunned beyond words! It goes to show you never can tell... until you see for yourself. Charles Reade wrote these words...."Use your own eyes.... never mind what the experts say". I'm sure you know the name.

Now, back to the fiddle....

The well regarded "experts" were off by about 170 years, give or take a couple, and the exact distance from Turin to Cremona. The fiddle was a MAGNIFICENT Guarneri del Gesu, circa 1730-35, with a quarter sawn (oriented on the slant) one piece back of stunningly beautiful maple with broad figure. That instrument belongs to a Jewish lady who resides in West Virginia with her husband and children.

How do I determine the identity of a "soi-distant" Stradivari?

Measurements taken of the outline give the overall size of the piece. Measurements from the outside to the outside of the purfling give the dimensions of the mould around which the rib garland was built, ie; the outside of the mould equals the inside of the ribs. Stradivari cut the purfling channel so that the outside of the channel equals the inside of the rib, which is the outside of the mould. Direct comparisons of the type and nature of the wood used for the backs; the depth, thickness and manner of installing the purfling, (especially in the points.) The shape, size, and manner of carving the scroll including the different widths of the right and left channels of the volute, the differing sweep and forward throw of the volute, and the termination of the channels at the bosses; (whew!!)... the shape, placement and carving of ff holes. And, most especially, the interior construction. All these are important and are given consideration in the identification process.

Warm regards,
John

 

If you want the link to that, please write.

Ok, I wish you all the best and I hope also, that this so-called Gerard (Jed) Murphy will soon write here ;-P.

This discussion has been archived and is no longer accepting responses.

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