Help with Boccherini Minuet- Suzuki Book 2

June 14, 2006 at 03:24 AM · Can anyone help me with the trills in Boccherini Minuet in Suzuki Book 2?

I guess I need to know:

1. what two notes are being trilled?

2. how does it transition to the two grace notes?

Any help is greatly appreciated,

Ben

Replies (13)

June 14, 2006 at 01:49 AM ·

June 14, 2006 at 04:36 AM · Greetings,

don`t know the piece but I think most of the follwing is correct:

1) When playing a short trill -always- make a slight accent with the bow.

2) Start the trill on the beat.

3) Start from the note above.

4) A trill is not just a flutter. It must be worked n precisly and mentally to be truly effective. So start with only four notes, for example, cbab c. Get them exactly rythmical and in tempo. Then do six and then do 8. The aim is absolute precision and mental control. It does not matter how slowly or how few notes you practice to begin with.

5) The speed of the trill is relative to the work in question. So if you are playign a slow movement the trill has less notes IE is slower. To put an electric trill in the middle of an Adagio is rather like the front doorbell ringing just as you are eating a prune souffle.

6) -Never- mix vibrato and a trill. This will cause serious tension in your hand. If you have seen palyers wrists move during a trill (cf Milstein) it is because his wrist is so rleaxed their is a small counter reaction. It is not vibrato.

Cheers,

Buri

June 14, 2006 at 04:48 AM · Well Buri pretty much says it all. My only addition would be to

a) stop the bow before the initiating the small accent with the bow

b)begin by practicing only the anschlag, then the note (without trill), then stop the bow briefly before playing the two grace notes

c)when you can do this without using excesssive amounts of bow, in tempo, start adding one, then two trilling notes

June 14, 2006 at 08:39 AM · As I learned it, it's a G#-F# trill, starting from the top, that leads into a turn right before the open E. The turn's just a simple G#-F#-E-F# thing. In other words, it's just a trill, with an E-F# stuck on the end. Hope this helps!

Matt

June 14, 2006 at 02:46 PM · I probably do not get the point of the question, but my Suzuki book 2 (admittedly in Japanese) has an explanation of how to play the trill and grace notes next to the piece (p. 25). That is, it tells you to play it as six equal notes, all on one slurred up bow, G# F# G# F# E F#, all making up one crotchet. That means in effect that it sounds just like two triplets strung together, which is how I play it.

June 20, 2006 at 02:52 AM · Thank you for the excellent reponses. My Suzuki book (English) contains no explanation.

July 1, 2006 at 05:15 AM ·

July 1, 2006 at 12:08 PM · The grace notes are "ornamentation". Add the grace notes after you can play the song without them.

The trill thing that Noel mentioned? That's another tricky passage. My approach there is to be able to play this Minuet without the trill, which means that it's played with an F# all the way through to the next solid E note. Once you get the rhythm of that down, then add the flicker of the trill and grace note by tensing the back of your left hand. Let the fast twitch muscles do their thing and don't worry about the exact trill rhythm as specified in the Suzuki manual.

July 2, 2006 at 11:46 PM · Greetings,

Kevin, gonna suggets the opposite in this case. I belive trills should be built up using mental control. So as you say, the piece has to be time without the ornaments, then add one grace note in tempo, then two or three or whatever. I am not convinced about the tension and flutter thing at this satge.

I know Freidmann once said in an interview that a trill is basically a -relaxed- flutter but my reaosning behind it being controlled is that the tempo of the trill has to be related to the tempo of the music. I so often hear players doing a rapid trill in slow movements oif for example, Handel sonates, that it drives me craze. Like the door bell ringing while you are making love perhaps?

Cheers,

Buri

July 3, 2006 at 12:42 AM · Leopold Mozart referred to the doorbell thing as a "Ziegetrille", (goat trill) because it sounds like the bleating of a goat. He also found it quite objectionable.

July 3, 2006 at 01:43 AM · Greeitngs,

and goat poo is even worse,

Cheers,

Buri

July 24, 2006 at 10:24 PM · Thank you so much for posting this question! I was just assigned this piece to work on for my next lesson, and I was doing the trill all wrong. Reading the notes here made a huge difference!

July 25, 2006 at 07:42 PM · It's not physically possible to trill without tensing your hand to some extent, buri.

No amount of mental control will substitute for actually PRACTICING the trill in practice day after day. The fast-twitch muscles needed for trilling do not grow via thought. They have to be built up via regular practice.

This discussion has been archived and is no longer accepting responses.

Facebook Twitter YouTube Instagram Email

Violinist.com is made possible by...

Shar Music
Shar Music

Yamaha Silent Violin
Yamaha Silent Violin

Pirastro Strings
Pirastro Strings

Find a Summer Music Program
Find a Summer Music Program

Dimitri Musafia, Master Maker of Violin and Viola Cases
Dimitri Musafia, Master Maker of Violin and Viola Cases

Violinist.com Business Directory
Violinist.com Business Directory

Violinist.com Guide to Online Learning
Violinist.com Guide to Online Learning

Dominant Pro Strings

Antonio Strad Violin

Bay Fine Strings Violin Shop

Bobelock Cases

Fiddlerman.com

Fiddlershop

Los Angeles Violin Shop

Nazareth Gevorkian Violins

Violin-Strings.com

Metzler Violin Shop

Leatherwood Bespoke Rosin

Warchal

Barenreiter

Johnson String Instrument and Carriage House Violins

Potter Violins

String Masters

Bein & Company

Annapolis Bows & Violins

Laurie's Books

Discover the best of Violinist.com in these collections of editor Laurie Niles' exclusive interviews.

Violinist.com Interviews Volume 1
Violinist.com Interviews Volume 1, with introduction by Hilary Hahn

Violinist.com Interviews Volume 2
Violinist.com Interviews Volume 2, with introduction by Rachel Barton Pine

Subscribe