saint saens no.3, and beethoven cadenza

July 19, 2004 at 08:29 PM · Greetings,

I would like to ask something about saint saens’ violin concerto no.3

1. On the scale of 1 to 10, what do you think is the difficulty of this piece?

2. Which one do you prefer, the “concerto no.3” or “Introduction & rondo capriccisoso”?

Which one do you think is harder to play?

Oh, and does anybody know who wrote the cadenza for beethoven’s violin concerto played by Anne Sophie Mutter? The one that starts with octaves(something like that).

Thanks for all your answers.

Replies (25)

July 19, 2004 at 08:34 PM · Personally I prefer the Concerto to the intro and rondo, but both excellent pieces! The Beethoven concerto cadenza Anne Sophie Mutter plays is the Kreisler one. :)

July 19, 2004 at 09:18 PM · I think Intro and Rondo Capriciouso is a superior piece to the concerto (for my taste). On a scale from 1 to 10 I would give it a 6.5.

July 19, 2004 at 11:23 PM · I like the concerto :) It has so many different, cool sections to it, in all the movements. I'm never bored playing or listening to it. I don't know how I'd rate it on a scale of 1 to 10, but it is challenging technically and musically. Introduction and Rondo is cool too, and very exciting, but I find it to be more repetitive.

July 19, 2004 at 11:55 PM · I'm an Intro and Rondo kind of girl - I like it hot'n'spicy;)

July 20, 2004 at 12:27 AM · I'm not a huge fan of Intro+Rondo-- the concerto seems to have a lot more depth.

Difficulty-wise, speaking only of relatively standard rep, I'd give St-Saens 3 a seven or a bit less; of course, if you include virtuoso pieces with more or less pointless technical problems (Ernst, St-Lubin, that sort of thing), or for that matter more recent music like Penderecki's concertos, the St-Saens would slide down a bit, but then you'd probably need a bigger scale anyway! It's a pretty unviolinistic piece, but there's nothing too crazy; just hard.

July 20, 2004 at 01:55 AM · Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso hands down...and I'm a guy. rofl.

July 20, 2004 at 11:09 AM · Thanks for all your answers

July 20, 2004 at 11:21 AM · Hi,

does anyone know if there is a website providing this cadenza for beethoven's concerto (especially for free)?

Thanks for your help.

July 20, 2004 at 06:27 PM · You may want to try these sites:

July 21, 2004 at 10:17 AM · Hi Khanh,

Thanks for the sites.

I got some interesting pieces like the thais meditation.

I didn't get the cadenza though( or did I miss it?), but thanks again for your help :)

July 22, 2004 at 06:47 PM · Hey, I don't know if I would compare a salon piece like the Intro and Rondo to one of the 19th century's greatest concerti (Saint-Saens no. 3). The Intro is repetitive because it is a rondo, and rondo form repeats (Beethoven concerto third movement, for example). The Intro is not as substantial a composition as the concerto (technique-wise and thematically), nor as difficult. So, in terms of preference and difficulty, No. 3 it is.

January 29, 2008 at 12:14 AM · bump, I'm deciding between Saint-Saens violin concerto or Barber. Which one is harder?

January 29, 2008 at 01:14 AM · Greetings,

at the respectable level you have achived it might be mor euseful to start reframing these kind of questions as `Which is more useful to me right now?`

I suspect one of the reasons you may be troubled by nerves to a small etxnet is becuase oyu are thinking in terms of difficulty which is althogethe rnegative. What comes out in our language is a refelctions of what we think which is the essence of our performance.



January 29, 2008 at 01:51 AM · Amen Buri!

January 29, 2008 at 03:10 AM · well, I'm currently having some trouble with the saint-saens... mainly moving my left fingers quickly, the arpeggios and that really annoying octave run.

January 29, 2008 at 03:46 AM · Greetings,

perhaps you are being too hard on yourself.

There is an interesting comment by Kyung Wha Chung in her`the Way They Play Interview.` It goes soemthing like:

`What aspects of playing came easily/naturally to you?`

`None. A tennis player doesn`t automatically have the ability to do a certain stroke. They have to work hard at it whatever the talent. Violin playing is the same.`

(Very badly paraphrased but I think the point is clear.



January 29, 2008 at 12:02 PM · ^well, I read somewhere here that she needs to take a long time to prepare pieces... But aren't there some violinists that don't practice but can play a piece perfectly the first couple of times? (intonation, etc)

January 29, 2008 at 04:29 PM · the cadenza is by Kreisler...

January 29, 2008 at 10:46 PM · Greetings,

that`s interesting Chris. But it makes me wonder who says `she takes a long time to prepare a piece?` If someone else said that were they privy to her first reading? Have they sat in the pracitce room with her while she sratched her head over a sclae passage?

I don`t thiink so. Chung is one of the most notorious perfectionsist on the instrument ever. When -she-says it takes me a hell of a long time to prepare a piece she probably means the art behind the notes. At her level one can play the notes of most pieces within a very short spac eof time if not a first readin for standard format works.

In anothe rinterview ASM noted that she could have a piec eready virtually immeduatley because she thinks about it -at the keyboard- and then hass it running throuhg her hea dall the time. But she goes on to add that this simplistic level is jnot acceptable and that a program takes about a yera to prepare. Heifetx spent a lot oftime preparing and reflecting on his programs too.

You also mention violinist who don`t pracitce. All good violinist practice . Sometimes the form is a litlte different but its there;)



January 30, 2008 at 01:01 AM · That's BS. Kyung Wha Chung was well ahead of her time violinistically. Sure there are people who practiced less and would prepare things faster, but her style wasn't like that at all. Everything she plays is emaculate and crystal clear. Her whole approach is different, it's not about lack of ability.

January 30, 2008 at 09:51 PM · I got the Kyung Wha Chung information from this thread (the post from Sung-Duk Song)

January 30, 2008 at 10:34 PM · Greetings,

I read the comment but I think you are taking some rather vague statements and not looking at them in relaitve terms. We don`t know a) what went on in thos elessons. People have diffenret ways of teaching that can be interpreted in all diffenret kind sof ways. Just as an example, suppose Ms Chung`s way of teahcing is to not demonstarte at all and make self deprecating remarks about how should can`t possibly play the passage as wonderfully as the studnet blah blah.

From the relative perspectoive , she may well be a less eficient sight reader than Perlman. She began her msuic studies on piano and went for a long time without the teahcer realizing she was lrearnign everythign by ear and couldn`t rea dmusic. However, for her to be unable to pivk up most of the repertoire and not be able to give it a good shot would be basically impossible. It would imply a rathe rweak technical command of the insturment and lack of muscial experience. One might also ask the question how she managed ot accumulate so much repertoire (she has a lot these days!) if it takes her 10 years to elarn a sonata. Does that mean the major cocnertos took twenty years each....?.



February 12, 2008 at 04:26 AM · INTRO & RONDO

Introduction is great

Rondo is repetitive

For me, the ending has never been satisfactory. It feels like something's missing.

But that's just me

February 12, 2008 at 07:53 AM · Don't know how hard the Saint-Saens pieces are, and I don't know which cadenza Mutter uses (Kreisler, apparently). Just wanted to say


February 22, 2008 at 07:57 PM · intro et rondo is all the way

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