Ivan Galamian Students...

June 2, 2004 at 03:42 AM · If you were to rate all of the successful galamian students, could you put them in a list from best to worst with a description of their careers now?

Replies (48)

June 2, 2004 at 07:19 AM · Gee- which is better, an apple or an orange?

June 2, 2004 at 05:02 PM · Let me rephrase the question, Can anyone list some Galamian students

June 2, 2004 at 05:26 PM · My favourite is Michael Rabin, and Galamian said that he was the more gifted of his students.

June 2, 2004 at 05:37 PM · David Cerone.

June 2, 2004 at 07:50 PM · Well, he started as a teacher in 1930's and taught for about 50 years...

If he had 2 new students every year that makes 100, and if he had 10 new (as many teachers have, at the least) every year it will come up to 500!

So the answer is quite large :)

June 2, 2004 at 11:29 PM · My violin teacher likes the lyricism and emotionality of Kyung Wha-Cha though apparently, technically, she isn't as great as Zukerman or Perlman.

June 3, 2004 at 12:23 AM · hmm, i've never noticed anything wrong with her technique

June 3, 2004 at 02:51 AM · I don't see anything lacking in Kyung-Wha Chung's technique, but I don't particularly go for her percussive style, either. In my mind, she massacred the third movement of the Bruch Concerto in her recording.

June 3, 2004 at 02:53 AM · The greatest Galamian student, though, would have to be Rabin. When asked which of his students was "the best" late in his career, Galamian replied (without any hesitation), "Michael Rabin. There was an extraordinary talent – no weaknesses, never."

June 3, 2004 at 04:12 AM · It is a quite odd question, "who is his gratest student".

My greatest student is NOT the student who plays best at concerts, but the one who understands me and learn most from my lessions.

I assume the same can be said about Galamian's quote above.

Other of his students can be more perfect techniqually (Tellefsen par ex), more allround (Laredo), fatter tone (Zukerman), Playing more with the orchestra (Chung) and so on. But who did Galamian appreciate most? That is a totally different question.

June 3, 2004 at 04:40 AM · Greetings,

Mattias has put his finger on it again. For me, the greatest student would be the one who realized the largest percentage of their potential through their own endeavours with my help.

There is another aspect of greatness that perhaps not everyone agress with but Misltein was quite adamant about: one has to play consistently well over a long career. (I think he was hav ing a did at Menuhin at the time.)

Using this as a yardstick the superb talent of Rabin did not achive greatness in the same way Perlman did, for example.

Cheers,

Buri

June 3, 2004 at 08:16 PM · By the time Rabin got to Galamian, he was pretty much a finished product. His Father(his first and main teacher) would lock young Michael in a small room for hours on end with no food or drink until he completed given tasks.His lousy childhood hastened his early death, but gave the world a superb violinist.

My point is really that most "great teachers" simply add polish to the already constructed facets of a pupils' skill... optimistically. In Menuhins case, Enesco was suspect in the other direction.

June 3, 2004 at 05:54 AM · Greetings,

Thomas, do you really feel he wa sa finished product? I think part of being a great artist is the ability to keep on growing. I feel quite a big difference in maturity between his earlier an dlater recordings.

Cheers,

Buri

June 3, 2004 at 01:49 PM · To clarify some mentioned gossip about Michael Rabin.

Rabin's father taught him only for few months in 1943 (no main teacher, being a very gentle and soft person to his son). Michael Rabin’s story is the typical story of a weak father and a very possessive mother. After many years of strain, Michael Rabin was just beginning to establish himself as a person when he died in 1972.

At the age of 8, Michael Rabin started with Galamian in 1944, although the first summer Rabin was taught by Galamian's assistant Yuri Osmolovsky. Ivan Galamian was well established at Curtis as a teacher of technical violinists at this time; Berl Senofsky, David Nadien, Helen Kwalwasser, Fredell Lack, in particular. About 1946, Galamian was appointed to Juilliard faculty and continued to teach (coached)Michael Rabin almost until his death in 1972.

Michael Rabin also made Galamian's reputation. Around his 75th birthday at Perlman's apartment, Galamian was asked by NYT reporter who his best student was. Without a second thought, he said Rabin was: he had "no weaknesses, never."

June 3, 2004 at 08:08 PM · I heard a "slightly" different story from Fredell and others who knew and worked with him.Unlike mortals,legends tend to grow ad infinitum.

June 5, 2004 at 07:03 AM · What do you mean Thomas about Enesco and Menuhin?

May 9, 2008 at 12:21 AM · 1.Chung

2.Perlman

3.Zukerman

May 9, 2008 at 12:50 AM · Kyung Wha Chung also worked with Sally Thomas.

There are so many great former students of Mr. G.

That is the remarkable thing... and yes, he did "grow" Michael Rabin, but let's not quarrel about it. He was an incredible teacher.

May 9, 2008 at 01:19 AM · I just saw a galamian student who I used to study with... It was pretty bad, she couldn't play the double stops in wieniawski legende cleanly and in tune nor play salut d'amour with a good bow arm

May 9, 2008 at 01:41 AM · One of my former teachers, Tom L. was a student of his and played in the St. Louis Symphony. He's now doing chamber music with his quartet.

May 9, 2008 at 01:43 AM · I know a man who studied with him way back when, and he's absolutely awful. I hate to say bad things about violinists, but when you see this guy's credentials then hear him play, it's hard to believe it!

One of my recent teachers, Felicia Moye studied with Galamian and Miss Delay and she's a fantastic violinist. She's currently teaching at Wisconson - Madison, I believe.

May 9, 2008 at 01:55 AM · You know, Mr. Galamian died almost 30 years ago. Even his last students are not kids any more. Do you suppose we might have some compassion on even aging, excellent violinists who maybe used to play magnificently? Do you really think once one attains a great level of playing that it will stay with them forever like whipping out a CD from their collection? Man! Just when I thought it was safe to get back in the water! I regret even entering this absurd discussion.

May 9, 2008 at 03:44 AM · It seems to me people are a musician first, or a gentleman first. Musicians generally hate each other ...or seldom cut any slack, rather.

:)

May 9, 2008 at 03:51 AM ·

May 9, 2008 at 04:16 AM · I hear you Mr. Russell. HOW do inane horse-race topics like this keep slipping through the spam filter??

May 9, 2008 at 05:02 AM · Looks like I'm going to need to watch out for the egg shells again on this board. I don't want to offend anyone with my opinion.

May 9, 2008 at 05:04 AM · I hope you're not referring to me; I assure you I am no eggshell.

May 9, 2008 at 05:09 AM · Greetings,

yep. This site drives me nuts sometimes. One can pick holes in anyone, anywhere, anytime. But I was, coincidentally, using his materials yesterday to do the most intense work possible on Moldave which I had to leran on 24 hours notice. It made me think again what a profound influenc eon the -whole- of 20th century music Galamian had.

This was the guy who codified and standardized a completely logical way of thinking about and learning the instrument that, irrespective of whatever whingeing and probably ill informed ideas one has about the `Galamian Technique` revolutionized the approach to the ionstrument.When people talk so blithely today about the mental approach to the instrument , challenging the mind rather than mindless repetition, I believe we are hearing Galamian`s influence in every other sentence.

This is the guy who produce so many thousands of world class players (and indirectly through his influence on the great DeLay) that orchestras the world over owe him an enormous debt, never mind all those soloists.

The same applies to chamber music - where would the awesome Guarneri quartet be without the teaching and influenc eof Galamian?

Its boring to go on about so many other legacies such as Meadowmount, one of the most significant books ever or the consistently reliable editions available the world over.

Cheers,

Buri

PS Incidentaslly, if you wnat to answer the original question about `successful` alamian students it was damn near all of them. Taht was the point about his teaching. He promised this to every stduent who wa swilling to work. The only thing he didn`t promise was a solo career forreaosns which he spells out perfectly in his book on technique.

May 9, 2008 at 05:42 AM · no maura...egg shells, as in "walking on egg shells"

May 9, 2008 at 12:35 PM · Yes, I know the expression. It sounded like you were anthropomorphizing the eggshells in question to create a new metaphor.

May 9, 2008 at 01:51 PM · Nice Buri. Galamian students are everywhere- not just soloists, but as chamber musicians - A. Steinhardt, Peter Zazofsky of the Muir Quartet and Miriam Fried of the Mendelssohn quartet to name a few.

Glenn Dicterow has been the one of the most visable concertmasters of all time. Stuart Canin also comes to mind.

As far as teachers go, Robert Lipsett, David and Linda Cerone and Sylvia Rosenberg, among others, come to mind.

Galamians influence on violin playing in the second half of the century was undeniable and multi-faceted.

May 9, 2008 at 02:48 PM · I liked what Stephen Brivati said about a great artist ability to keep on growing back when this thread began. I may have mentioned this before. "Art is never finished only abandoned." Neil Peart quoted someone who said this in his book, "Traveling Music". Bar illness/disease and the complications of advanced aging the mind will keep growing, even people in advanced geriontological years stop learning new tasks until the above mentioned and of course death.

May 9, 2008 at 04:05 PM · His legacy goes so far beyond just who he taught. I did not study with Galamian, but he taught me to play - via a former studio assistant of his. He had a method that worked very well. Yes, most master teachers often get pretty close to finshed products technically, but Galamian oversaw the basic training of many younger students via his methods. He got some bad PR because many of his students played technically well but musically bland or cold. I attribute this more to the fact that he could teach anyone to play well, including people who just didn't have the soul of a great musician. Personally, his method transformed my playing in 8 weeks. I am a believer. Even much of Delay's success is built on players with a Galamian Foundation.

May 9, 2008 at 04:05 PM · His legacy goes so far beyond just who he taught. I did not study with Galamian, but he taught me to play - via a former studio assistant of his. He had a method that worked very well. Yes, most master teachers often get pretty close to finshed products technically, but Galamian oversaw the basic training of many younger students via his methods. He got some bad PR because many of his students played technically well but musically bland or cold. I attribute this more to the fact that he could teach anyone to play well, including people who just didn't have the soul of a great musician. Personally, his method transformed my playing in 8 weeks. I am a believer. Even much of Delay's success is built on players with a Galamian Foundation.

May 9, 2008 at 04:33 PM · it is funny as if galamian needs defender here. not knowing people's background here (probably don't care to know anyway), it is amazing posters, violin students may i add, DARE to criticize legends in the field with narrow minded "exceptions". i guess if you have nothing to lose, nothing of substance to offer, anything goes.

can't blame the participants of the discussion since the original poster invited morons to rate people from top to bottom.

May 9, 2008 at 04:53 PM · I hope I didn't sound like I was criticizing Mr. Galamian, as I'm a devote disciple of his. My comment was simple meant to say that, though many of his students were great musicians, some were quite the opposite. No disrespect to Mr. Galamian.

May 9, 2008 at 05:05 PM ·

May 9, 2008 at 05:07 PM · marty, my comment is not directed at anyone either; if i do, i would address the person:), like this one.

still, what is the point of this discussion, or the revelation that not all of students turn out to be so and so?

doesn't the bell curve apply to anything and everything under the sun?

nate talked about his bow hold that is questionable. ok. for readers looking for a balanced view, something to do, instead of avoid doing, what are some of his unquestionably good teaching points?

May 9, 2008 at 05:22 PM · From al ku

Posted on May 9, 2008 at 05:07 PM

"nate talked about his bow hold that is questionable. ok. for readers looking for a balanced view, something to do, instead of avoid doing, what are some of his unquestionably good teaching points?"

He stressed many important things like playing in tune and in time, producing a sound that would fill up a hall (using flat hair), bow division/sounding point, sustaining the tone at the tip. One thing I would have to disagree with Galamian on was advice he gave to my teacher when playing with an orchestra. He told my teacher to tune sharp to the orchestra because it would in his opinion sound more "brilliant". He told many of his students to do this. He was also into teaching all his students to do this bow stroke up at the frog called cole which I completely object to. The sound it makes is percussive, and in my opinion not a beautiful violin sound. Much of the Soviet School violinists (except for Kogan) also use(d) this stroke all the time. Opera singers are coached not to make this noise, I think it even has a term (glottal click).

May 9, 2008 at 05:36 PM · I do not know enough to hold a discussion with Al, Marty, or Nate. This past semester Javier taught me Galamian's bow hold, and the bow divided into four parts. And the things that Nate just listed. My intonation, my whole playing is better than I can remember. I'm playing the excercises in Scheradiecks 1st. Book and have been progressing in the 2nd. What I've been taught so far is working for me. And the time may/will come that I must learn something/someone else to continue forwrds. I apriciate everyones oppinions and will bare them in mind as I learn more...about Galamian and other things.

May 9, 2008 at 05:41 PM · "I do not know enough to hold a discussion with Al, Marty, or Nate." me neither:) but i think it is more constructive to pick and choose than to piss on dead men's graves:)

nate, thanks. now i am really curious as how frog colle sounds like!

May 9, 2008 at 05:39 PM · Several of my teachers were trained by Galamian.

I'd say Galamian's teaching methods were as much a legacy as anything; he taught some of our finest teachers today. One of his apprentices was Dorothy DeLay, yes? He was known for being able to teach not just the star students (they are easier to teach, though one must be able to cultivate their talent at a high level), but he was able to impart very high-level technique on the mere mortals as well.

May 9, 2008 at 06:10 PM · Laurie, I would bet that what I will say regarding my two teachers is weighed towards them since they are my first in over two decades and have taught me more than I think I ever have since I began at the age of 10. But what you said about Galamian capable of teaching the upper echelon and the lowly mortals as myself. But both my teachers seemed to me are able to do that as well and they respect Galamian and his ways, using them to teach as a matter of fact. And the results are incredible.

May 9, 2008 at 09:17 PM · Nate, it's interesting what you say about colle. That was one of the first exercises I was given by my teacher in Montreal (a Galamian student). With me, she stressed that the attack should be precise but never overwhelming - the point was never a crunch (which, incidentally, I don't think you're implying), but rather a 'ping', which started clearly and rang. It built up a sensitivity to the string, so I could feel the contact in my fingers, and knew just what was happening at the critical point.

Has its uses, but not everywhere, I agree. My last teacher advocated a more 'thrown' approach, which has its own share of advantages and disadvantages, subtleties and possibilities.

May 9, 2008 at 09:47 PM · He told my teacher to tune sharp to the orchestra because it would in his opinion sound more "brilliant".

Sassmanshaus seems to have a more balanced view of this, recommending that the offstage soloist tune to the "highest A that you hear".

May 9, 2008 at 09:52 PM · Laurie, Was Prof. Kowalski a Galamian´s pupil?

May 10, 2008 at 03:04 AM · no no no way! Henryk was a student of Gingold's, also such a major influence on today's teachers and players. Beautiful tone, musicality and a love for playing and teaching are what I associate with Gingold and his proteges.

My teachers who studied with Galamian were Jim Maurer of the University of Denver and Gerardo Ribeiro of Northwestern.

May 10, 2008 at 04:44 AM · "If you were to rate all of the successful galamian students, could you put them in a list from best to worst with a description of their careers now?"

It would be shorter to list all the violinists in the world that are not affected by Galamian, his former pupils — many of which are/were international caliber musicians — and his methods.

He was not God — just amazingly good.

Drew

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