Zigeunerweisen

January 27, 2004 at 10:02 PM · Hi i am curious to know at what point can one learn Zigeunerweisen. (and can you recommend recordings)I just finished the Mozart concerto in A and the first movement of the Bruch concerto. I feel both of these peices helped to improve my technical skill. Currently i am looking to play either Zigeunerweisen or Lalo (1st mvt.) Do you feel that these pieces are too abrupt of a change for this skill level. If so can you recommend any other pieces to play as a prerequisite. Any piece i do, i want to do it well ( I don't think that i am ready for the Mendelssohn yet). thanks.

Replies (14)

January 28, 2004 at 01:18 AM · i would recommend finishing the bruch before tackling the lalo or zigunerweisen.

January 28, 2004 at 01:39 AM · Greetings,

these kind of questions are really impossible to answe because the selection of the next piece is not so much directly related to @a good order to study music` although that has some beairng on it. More importantly, it is about making a blunt assessment of your weaknesses and future goals and selecting material accordingly. This can only be done properly b a competent teacher who knows you well.

I agree with Owen about finishing the ruch. I am not a great fan of the tendency to play single movements of concercertos. Personally I feel each work is an organic whole and that each movemnt should be worked on simultaneoulsy, section by section. It is so common for players to leave college with a random assortment of cocnerto movemnts and little sense of the whole.

There is no reason why you shouldnot tackle Zigeunerweisen next. However, I think it was Rosand who said these kind of works take a special kind of experience to pull off n the cocnert hall and i think Zigeunerweisen s a big work that people know well so why not explre some other options? There are thousands of smaller works that you could master well enough to give a reasobale perfromace quite quickly which would help build up elegance and flexibility in your playing. I am thinking about the books of Heifetz encores and Kreisler works for starters.

There is not reason why you coundN@t finsih the Bruch and start th Lalo while working on this kind of stuff.

Another useful thing to do ius to find a good pianist and play through lots of sonatas without worrying about perfoamce standard as such. It improves everything- especially as painists seme to have the edge on us phrasing wise at times,

Cheers,

Buri

January 28, 2004 at 04:31 PM · In terms of technical difficulty, if you've done Bruch and Mozart you can probably get through Lalo. However, in terms of musical sophistication and complexity, Bruch and Mozart are much more difficult than Lalo or Sarasate. Having developed your sense of style with Bruch and Mozart, you should be ready to work on the showy effects of Lalo and Sarasate.

Having said all that, I agree with Buri. Unfortunately, many students work at the first mvt of the Bruch before they can handle the third. . .

January 28, 2004 at 04:55 PM · Thanks everyone for your advice. I main reason as to why i have't finished the Bruch is because i have no strong fellings for the piece. my teacher wants to work on a Bach partita or sonata. I was simply just looking at my alternatives. (although i do love Bach!)

January 28, 2004 at 08:22 PM · I think that you could start with it. I played it after the Beriot "Scine the ballet". It is a very big step foward, but when you won`t try it you won`t find out too. If you learn the passages than everything else is a piece of cake ;) Belive me. It gives you a useful foundation for the future. Zigeunerweisen trains your fingers a lot stronger and faster.The emotion comes when playing it, because the music is like that, You can`t play it with no emotion, it`s impossible. Mutter`s recording is great. I like her passionate and warm tone.

January 28, 2004 at 08:30 PM · and the third movement of bruch is one of the more fun movements of all time.

January 28, 2004 at 09:37 PM · In my opinion, I think most people play Zigeunerweisen too soon. I mean, I am kind of using it as a "reward" for myself and I am working on Dvorak Concerto. Thinking back ot where I was technically when I was playing Bruch and Lalo, I don't think I really understood enough about violin technique to play Zig. well. I am not saying you shouldn't play it along with Lalo, etc, but I think there is a level of playing maturity that you get after going through alot of repertoire, and also an emotional maturity. Again, this goes back to the kablevsky thread, where I was saying tht yeah, you can PLAY the notes of Mozart concertos at a young age maybe, but the articulation, nuance, and style is something that takes a long time to develop. There's a difference between playing a piece, and playing it how the composer intended it

End of Sermon.

CHLOE

January 29, 2004 at 12:32 AM · Playing Zigeunerweisen effectively is all about taking risks.

January 29, 2004 at 05:01 AM · This is a piece which I started when I was 9, 2 years after I started to play. It has become a very frustrating piece now for me. I find I can never be satisfied in interpretation because it can be done in so many different ways. The technical part is not easy either, especially because as you mature because as you mature, you are willing to take more risks (unless you're a boring guy). I for example have added a number of different things, such as upbow stacatto, down bow stacatto, ricochet, different slides, going up on the A string or D strings in 7th or 8th position for the slide and the color. For me, there are two major considerations to be taken for this piece. How gypsy it should be, and how "classical" it should be. When I say "classical" in this instance, I mean classical music. In other words, how spontaneous, and how thought out it should be. One may take either extremes, or do a combination of both. I find myself leaning more towards the gypsy side, but when you get too many slides, it gets a little cheesy. Kyung Wha Chung on the other hand, her interpretation is pretty well thought out and in good taste, but not so gypsy.

January 29, 2004 at 05:10 AM · Oh, and also, this is one of those pieces you should learn about from as many teachers as possible.

January 29, 2004 at 05:54 PM · Brian and Chloe,

I guess you're right about the variety of approaches to parts of Zigeunerweisen, but I'm not sure that that degree of involvement is completely necessary to perform it effectively- not so much so as, say, the Mozart concerti or Tzigane.

January 31, 2004 at 01:43 AM · I think you should play the whole Bruch and Lalo concert before you start playing Zigeunerweisen because of tehnical skills you get and also feeling.Maybe is also better if you play Wieuxtemps no.5 first.That is my opinion, Because these concerts are more important.You will have a lot of time to play Zigeunerweisen.I am playing it now and I dont think that i should not play it before those pieces that i wrote.The recording is the best from Anne Sophie mutter (with Wiener Philharmoniker James levine) in my opinion.These piece should be played with a lot of feeling and also there is a lot of improvisation in it.I think you will do it great. bye bye

January 31, 2004 at 04:56 AM · It depends on what you want to use it for. Do you want to add Zig to your reportore? It may be a little bit premature. Do you want to play it to develop certain skills or phrasing? Why not. Unless you are incredibly gifted (which happened here and there in violin history), I think it will hard for you to play Zig to satisfaction at this stage. Other pieces, or finishing bruch, may be more educational for your development.

February 1, 2004 at 06:45 AM · To perform it effectively, do you mean to perform it so that it's satisfying? If so, I agree with you Jude.

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