I'm looking for a great violin at $1,000 or near that.

November 28, 2015 at 05:24 AM · Brands ... the reason you dont see a lot of useful comparisons is because sound can vary a lot within a brand and even a specific model, you really just have to try a bunch of violins and see which one works best. Buy at a shop with upgrade policy.

November 28, 2015 at 06:59 AM · I see. Thanks.

I think I'll go ahead and try the Scott Cao and then choose between it and Dragon. It just seems like Scott Cao is very popular and Dragon is unheard of.

I think this shop has upgrade policy.

November 28, 2015 at 08:02 AM · What Paul said is absolutely correct, and it's great that you actually went to your local shops to try some violins. In my opinion that's the only way to do it! :)

'Brand names' for violins are more of a suggestion of what to expect than a guarantee that you will like the instrument. Even if the maker is highly reputable and the quality is impeccable, violins are very personal and there's no one-size-fits-all. I never recommend buying a violin without playing it first unless you like to gamble!

So try a bunch on your price range, and pick whichever one you like best, regardless of what 'brand' it is. :)

(and don't forget about the bow! If you're upgrading from a beginner's instrument, you will likely need a better bow! After you've chosen your violin, try a bunch of bows and pick one)

November 28, 2015 at 09:14 AM · Thank you!

You've made me realize how I should choose a violin for it being itself, and being playable and suitable for me.

I don't think I need to make sure it fits in a proffesional category although I'm worried if it'll last Highschool and college. As in skill wise and playability. I'm still inexperienced in this topic.

Mr. Palmer changed up the Dragon's strings and had it come along with a very fine, nice matching bow. This violin sounds sweet! It's hard to describe it, it's not like another word for cool but more like an actual flavor and feeling. Sweet like sugar. My bows right now, my two with the mendini and my teachers are very very heavy and I really don't like them. And my current violin is very very bright. Maybe the dragon's darkness is such a contrast that it appears sweet and beautiful.

November 28, 2015 at 10:17 AM · Hehe, I know what you mean. Mine, one is sweet like Swiss milk chocolate, and the other is darker, like... some 75% cacao German dark chocolate. They both make me think of chocolate!

How long it's going to last you before you feel you need more unf! depends on a lot of things, but unless the instrument has inherent shortcomings that become bothersome as you advance, you should be set for a good while with it! If you haven't bought it yet, and if you have a teacher (please say you have a teacher), try to get the teacher to go with you to test the violin, they will be able to assess any characteristics it might have that could become roadblocks later on that will force you to upgrade prematurely in order to continue advancing in your studies.

November 28, 2015 at 07:13 PM · Speaking of which the dragon is a chocolate colored violin. It looks a lot different than others because of its colors and its creamy box wood chin rest. I can't get it out of my mind, I love its appearance too and am a bit saddend when all other options seem not as pretty.

I don't have it yet. I went to the shop and accidently stayed after closing hours trying things out. He said he could give me a week trial period but it's thanksgiving so I couldn't really do that. Instead I'll speak with my orchestra directors next Tuesday and then take my personal teacher along on Thursday. My personal teacher wants to pass me off to another teacher in Winter, I don't think there should be problems with a new teacher disliking this one if I get it.

I feel like I have a slight issue though, the directors came to me and told me that whenever I want to upgrade I should come to them and they'll get me something from RobertSonandSons. I've been trying to reach them but it's not really working. Robertsonandsons has violins that are too expensive, and my friend happens to have one of their most lower cost ones, but I dislike it. If I'd have to buy one then they'd give me that. And that's too much and not to my liking.

November 28, 2015 at 08:15 PM · Color me skeptical but if you have a teacher or director who insists that you go to a particular shop, consider the possibility that said teacher or director may be getting a kickback on any instrument purchased through them from that shop.

November 28, 2015 at 08:42 PM · Aesthetics will play all sorts of tricks on us! Just like 'name brands'. Just keep in mind that really the foremost you're looking for is sound and comfort. The fact that a violin looks pretty to you is just a bonus! But of course it is important that you like your instrument as a whole.

Ideally when trying out a new violin, a person should know nothing about it other than that it is within their price range (and even price will play tricks on people because 'more expensive' doesn't always equal 'better'). No makers, no history, no knowing if it's the most expensive of the bunch or the cheaper one, nothing other than the sound and the way it feels in your hands. That can be tricky of course because we're likely to know /something/ about it, but concentrate on the sound and feel the most!

For students, it's absolutely important that they get the opinion of their teacher on a new instrument they're getting, because the teacher should have the experience to know, among other things, how much in terms of sound and technique the student will be able to get out of that violin before they have to upgrade again.

I can't speak on the politics of your orchestra and their preference for specific shops, but to put it bluntly, it's none of their business where you get your violin from! Anything you're getting in the $1000 range should be way better than the $100 one you currently have.

So if your teacher approves of it, get the one you like! Being stuck with an instrument that was pushed on you that you don't care for can harm your interest in playing, and we wouldn't want that!

November 28, 2015 at 08:56 PM · Oh Mrs. Goree, does Robertsonandsons have kickbacks?

November 28, 2015 at 09:04 PM · I feel slightly guilty for really disliking bright really really sickly yellow violins. At a concert a kid in the front row had a yellow violin that stood out so much wow.

Yeah bias is hard. I tried my dragon and then a $5,000 one just to compare. And I don't really know what to say. I like the dragon and it's sweet tone but in someways the $5,000 feels better, but I don't want it to be like that a cheaper violin can't exceed a more expensive one. The possibility has to be there.

Alrighty! I'm more fired up. Next week is gonna be exciting!

November 28, 2015 at 10:00 PM · "Oh Mrs. Goree, does Robertsonandsons have kickbacks?"

I don't know if they do or they don't; they're a reputable shop but it's unfortunately not unusual for a teacher to expect a bonus from a shop in return for guiding a student to buy there.

It just makes my ears prick up when a teacher or director is so insistent that a student buy from a particular shop. As a pp said, it's none of their business.

There is a shop in town that I recommend if my students ask; they're a good shop. But I don't insist that my students buy from there and I give my honest opinion on any instrument that a student is considering no matter where it's from.

November 28, 2015 at 10:29 PM · "I feel slightly guilty for really disliking bright really really sickly yellow violins. At a concert a kid in the front row had a yellow violin that stood out so much wow."

What do you think about this one, trending to more orange-brown?

November 28, 2015 at 11:16 PM · Is that one of yours, David? :)

November 28, 2015 at 11:20 PM · David, how much of that varnish is the original color? And are we permitted to prefer other colors, like the 1666 Nicolo Amati?

November 28, 2015 at 11:20 PM · Anna,

Please read the following articles:

How to choose a violin

How to Judge if a Violin has a Good Tone

The attributes listed and explained in the 2nd articles can provide a helpful framework to start in selection process.

If you liberate yourself from choosing brands, and can afford some time looking, you can get a very nice violin even within your price range.

Good luck!

R

November 29, 2015 at 12:03 AM · A Jay Haide is within your price range.

November 29, 2015 at 12:20 AM · It's a warm color. The varnish throws me off a bit. I'm not used to what I think is a real hand painted varnish. I'm more struck by the tail piece, no chin rest, and no fine tuners. My pegs are really bad so I sorta have a fear, but I'll get use to it on a newer violin.

November 29, 2015 at 12:34 AM · I've done some research before and I'll certainly get caught up with those articles. But it's a matter of which that I'm just not experienced enough to tell a lot of differences. Any violin I play other than my own echoes under my ear when I play it. My violin is very stunted and it makes ring tone's really hard to hear along with my old strings. I think it might've helped my ear some but whenever I play a different violin all these features are natural to those. So it's hard to tell violins apart from eachother. Any time I play on a different violin I can tell that my messy string crossing disappear which I think is from a bad bridge and heavy bow, my chin rest no longer digs into my chin, it's much easier and faster to play, like I feel the speed increase. (My current violin had a nut and bridge way way too high for a violin so I've been using extra pressure all along, but that's been recently fixed.) It feels better on my shoulder but there's not really a way to test out a new violin with my average rigouous practice sessions. It's a lot lighter. My violin is very loud but with a stunted and very whiny tone. That's a main issue, the whininess. These are mostly the only things I can tell apart. I can't really hear any of the important bits. The closest I think is that student violins have a nauseating under ear echo and ones that are a step up don't. And that student violins don't really have much difference between them.

My violin is a Mendini mv400 it's had a chin rest replacement, bow and nut shortening something, very very old dominants, and extra attempts at a good sound like my teachers golden e, and her bow, along with d'addario light rosin.

November 29, 2015 at 12:42 AM · I'll see if I can try a Jay Haide. Or if ones available. Now that I think about it, I might not have a lot of time to test or decide. :/ The shop is pretty far and my school runs late. I'll take a chance!

Fiddlerman artist violin is an example of a sickly yellow color. It doesn't look too bad until you're on a very bright stage.

Edit: You can also see the lovely dragon on his shop.

November 29, 2015 at 05:46 AM · For the ~$1,000 range you are looking at almost exclusively Chinese workshop violins. Whether they come with a well known name such as Scott Cao, Eastman, or whatever any particular shop names their "own" $1,000 violin, or if you buy an "unknown" such as Dragon, or YitaMusic or Old Violin Shop.

I've had good luck rolling the dice on Yita and OVH. But buying from somewhere that is Stateside, and allows returns (I have done returns with Yita, no problem but the shipping is expensive) is probably a wiser choice. Fiddlerman has good customer service. Shoot them an email and tell them what you're looking for.

November 29, 2015 at 06:35 AM · my previous violin, a German workshop violin was bought for $800 from a luthier I don't see anymore. It was an Amati copy with fake label and everything.

It was no match for my current violin bought for $2800 or a $6000 violin I got to try shortly, but it sounded great!

The German violin surpassed sound quality of anything I got to play in $600~$2400 violins I got to try. I also came across a French workshop violin of Vuillaume copy, it also sounded great with $700 tag on it.

Try local luthiers, ads and stores as well.

November 29, 2015 at 06:59 AM · I think the shop here has a 5 year period of some sort.

But also luckily fiddlermanshop has the Dragon that I'm looking at.

November 29, 2015 at 07:00 AM · Aww that's cool! So many gems that can beat higher priced ones.

November 29, 2015 at 07:13 AM · Another brand you should consider, Stradivarius, while violins from his Italian period are priced well out of your price range, after Stradivari moved to Germany in the 19th century, and started using the primitive predecessors of mass production, some quality and not so quality Stradivari violins are well within your price range, I'm not saying most are but Some Stradivari made in Germany can give those new Chinese violins you are considering a run for their money, and most of them are over 100 years old to boot.

November 29, 2015 at 08:55 AM · I'm not quite sure if the shops have them. I haven't heard of anything other than the famous Stradivarius.

November 29, 2015 at 09:48 AM · 90% of German trade violins were made by Stradivari, Amati, or Stainer, you'd be hard pressed to miss them if you went to a shop that sells antiques. LOL

November 29, 2015 at 10:53 AM · "Is that one of yours, David? :) "

It's the Messiah Strad, probably the world's most valuable violin.

"David, how much of that varnish is the original color?"

It's mostly original varnish, with a minor amount of touch-up in spots. We don't have an accurate way knowing how much the color has changed with time, but expert opinion generally seems to be that it would have been even brighter and less subdued when new.

"And are we permitted to prefer other colors, like the 1666 Nicolo Amati?"

No sir. LOL

November 29, 2015 at 01:48 PM · Anna,

checkout craigslist for your state. (http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us/AZ) There are quite a few used (German) violins for sale.

Rocky

November 29, 2015 at 02:12 PM · I think you need a basis of comparison.

And not to the Mendini either.

The Eastman VL305 had great reviews several years ago and I haven't heard anything bad about them since either. I believe they retail for about $1200.

If you can find one of those...play it and use it as a basis to compare other violins in that price range to. It will at least provide you with an example of what you should be getting in that price range.

If you find you like the Eastman...buy it. If not...find something you do like...but at least you'll have a frame of reference.

I agree that the visual appeal is important. I'm always surprised when people say go for the sound and don't worry about the look...but I have to have both. And given the amount of time that goes into making a violin look beautiful...suggesting to ignore that part of it is a bit odd.

Having said that though...sound is the more important factor of course. Don't buy only for looks. My favourite looking violin...is my least favourite for playing...

And don't get hung up on the fittings...they can be changed (by a qualified luthier) to something you prefer at a later date if you find you still want a different looking set.

November 29, 2015 at 06:57 PM · I don't think I'll be able to go to an antique shop. New may be my only choice.

I'll consider the cragislist though, I'll take a look there.

November 29, 2015 at 06:59 PM · Sound and sight.

Eastman VL305.

Got it! Thanks!

November 29, 2015 at 11:34 PM · I play on a Eastman 305. Even though its about a grand in price, the instrument is still a step-up student grade instrument. My understanding is that college level players would play on something in the 2-4k range. Students in conservatory would probably play on something even more expensive if they could afford it.

November 30, 2015 at 12:47 AM · I played an Eastman 305 for 9 years as an adult beginner. I grew out of it after about 5 years. It was very well made and I loved the dark varnish, but the instrument was quite limited. It was a bit heavy and that showed in the response. It was definitely a forgiving instrument, which makes it suited for beginners. It is a huge upgrade from a Mendini (what isn't?) but it still won't get you far if you have decent musical aspirations.

The best course of action is to (forget about brand names) find a reputable shop, spend part of a day trying instruments, and trialing one or two at home. Used or new makes no difference at this price point - simply find the best playing one you can. Rinse and repeat until you find the right one. Most shops have a trade-up policy, and you can upgrade again in the future with better trade-in value than you would get on the street. Plus you have a luthier in-house to make sure the setup is perfect, and fix any problems you might have.

Will you pay more at a retail shop than an online retailer? Probably. But the benefits far outweigh any perceived monetary output.

edit: Kimberly is right. $1k may not be enough for college. There are certainly bargains to be had, but the only way to find them is to try a bunch of them out.

November 30, 2015 at 12:58 AM · That's a lovely colored instrument.

So I just gotta try and get whatever sounds better than it in that price range. Probably easier said than done.

November 30, 2015 at 02:03 AM · I played a DXKY DV-406, intended for the advanced student, and then found a DV-805 from the same luthiers in Beijing, and bought that.

The 406 is certainly in your budget range.

This small firm has great quality control, and sells mostly to those shops that then put their own names on the instruments.

I found DXKY on FaceBook, and even on this site.

http://www.dexinkaiyuan.com

November 30, 2015 at 02:36 AM · am I reading it correctly? Lyndon suggesting German violins by Stradivarius in the 19th century? Either I read wrong or apparently Stradivarius lived for 3 centuries?

November 30, 2015 at 04:07 AM · There might be a DXKY, I'll keep an eye out.

November 30, 2015 at 06:52 AM · "So I just gotta try and get whatever sounds better than it in that price range. Probably easier said than done."

Nothing about playing violin (well) is easy, and the selection process is not much easier. I've dabbled with other instruments, and I can state with a fair amount of certainty that violinists have an incredibly intimate relationship with our instruments. More so than most/all other instruments. This makes selecting the right violin rather important. The more you learn, and the more your teacher asks you to do, the more you will realize how true this is.

November 30, 2015 at 08:15 AM · Stradivari lived to be a very old man Stephen.

November 30, 2015 at 10:52 AM · I have an idea (from somewhere - poster on their site?) that Long Island Violins carry DXKY.

One advantage of these instruments is that the firm is quite young -- 2002? Their principal luthiers have apparently trained in Europe after working as luthiers in China, and now are working to establish themselves in the open market. With a bit of luck, we win, with well-made instruments priced below the market.

Certainly they are presenting at the Trade Fairs, most recently (October) in Shanghai. So, they are out there, asking to be "tested" and "compared".

November 30, 2015 at 11:46 AM · Lyndon - you don't mean that Stradivarius is dead???? That can't be... I mean if he is when whoever made that Chinese violin I saw in the shop last week is LYING!!!

Say it ain't so...

And on topic its VERY important to get someone to try the violin out that is playing at the level that you intend to be when you are likely to finish playing on this instrument. For example, right now you may not be worrying about anything above 3rd position - but a violin can die up at quite low positions - such as 6th. The most likely string to give you a problem (with 'wolf' notes) is the G and that's bad enough but one on the D or A can be debilitating.

November 30, 2015 at 02:36 PM · 6th position is considered low?

The OPs question is: what violin can I buy in the $1000 range?

That is a huge step up from a $100 Mendini.

If she finds she outgrows her new $1000 violin she can upgrade if and when that time comes. She will have a few years to save up in the meantime.

I tossed the Eastman 305 out there to provide a basis of comparison. Like it and buy it...or not...but it makes it easier to compare violins that way. Use a different violin as a basis of comparison...doesn't matter...same end result.

***if you buy used from another student (or from the paper)...you need to take that violin in to be checked out...it will need to be adjusted and you should get new strings put on.

Also...consider a 'better' bow. If you buy an outfit (violin, bow, case), you might be able to negotiate a better bow with the outfit.

Bows are a whole 'nother subject, but a decent bow makes a huge difference too. :)

November 30, 2015 at 04:39 PM · Haha, I also play oboe. Imagine that. It's so picky. That's why I'm leaving it.

November 30, 2015 at 04:47 PM · Oh contrair. I'm working on songs requiring 6 and 7. My home base positions are 1st, 3rd, and somewhat 5. I'm comfortable sightreading even and odd positions.

But can you talk more about wolf notes? I'm working on Czardas a little and it goes high on the g-string. I've heard you slide your finger to find a wolf note.

November 30, 2015 at 04:50 PM · My luthier changed up the strings that the dragon usually comes with and also it comes with a real sweet bow. A lot better than mine and matched to the instrument. I'm not sure about other violins though.

November 30, 2015 at 08:35 PM · Anna, wolf notes are, sadly, not difficult to find. Basically when you inch up the G string you will find that the note cracks and(as I am sure se all did) you will blame yourself for your awful technique. But this is not you. Just about every violin will have some wolf note - though the best you really have to listen for it. And, apparently, this is true of many exceedingly expensive violins (or cellos etc) too. It always amused me when people would write about 'working round them'. Which is like 'working round' a snarling large dog predator.

That said, don't be surprized if you find one. Sometimes the violin is adjusted (don't ask me how) so that the wolf will fall between semi-tones so that you really can jump over him (which is why a slide up the string may not be the right test - better to play chromatics if you can, just my thought). You can also buy various devices to minimize it (mixed results) but really you DON'T want a violin with a wolf low on the keyboard or anywhere on the D, A or E strings.

November 30, 2015 at 10:03 PM · Okay I got it! I'll keep an eye out.

December 4, 2015 at 07:14 PM · Anna, I too had been playing on a Mendini which was the MV500, and my instructor suggested it is time to move up. I had upgraded the strings to Pirastro Tonicas, which made it sound much better, but strings can’t make up for other issues. The instrument was beginning to hold up my progress, which I took as a compliment. After reading forums, hearing other instruments, and trying out a few locally, I found a dealer in Germany, www.corilon.com which deals with antiques primarily. They have sound clips of their experts playing each instrument and they offer a full money-back return policy plus if you decide to later trade it in you will get full purchase price toward the next instrument. $1,000 is their lower end, though I found several that appealed to me. I sent an inquiry and Dr. Annette Roeben (the owner) came back with some suggestions for a student, and actually dissuaded me from buying a much more expensive instrument when it wasn’t warranted just yet. In the end, I purchased one of her recommendations and I cannot be happier. 90% of my scratch is gone, the notes are much easier to play, and when I hit the proper note you can tell instantly. It feels better, and when I pick up the Mendini, it sounds as if I am playing inside of a cardboard box. Tremendous difference. My violin is nothing fancy, but to me it is amazing and I absolutely love it. It will certainly carry me for a few years. Oh, and I think it is mentioned above, but a decent bow (even a $50 version) will make a world of difference. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find!

December 5, 2015 at 03:25 AM · Elise, I'm curious, other than shifting the wolf to between semitones, or wolfnote eliminator which essentially mutes the violin,

what else do musicians do about the wolf note?

I am cracking up the notes on my G string from 4th position and above, the wolf is in between C# and D in first position.

December 5, 2015 at 03:33 AM · I understand ya bud. I've always had messy string crossings but after trying some upper violins it was so much easier. But I wasn't able to get one yet, so I went back and hopefully mastered string crossings to be very crisp, it gets me excited at how good and easy it'll be on a newer one!

I can barely hear ring tones on my violin most of the time as well, so I went back and developed my ear as much as I could on telling whether notes were correct despite how hard they are to hear. Hopefully my ear is a lot better now. It rings quite a bit on a good violin.

Basically, ever since trying out new ones, I've been milking my old violin as much as I can to get it mastered, and learn skills that are difficult for it. Now the big day is tomorrow!

Should I make a new post to update which one I got? Or stay in this thread?

I'll take my choice to school next week and once I get the go to then it'll be my precious.

My mendini was named Maple, (Don't think I'm creepy for naming all my instruments!) Any name ideas for a new one? Violet, Spruce, Clover, Dandelion, and others seem applicable. (Open to everyone's idea.)

December 5, 2015 at 04:38 AM · I agree with PP. Go to a local shop and try the instruments out. Buy at one that allows you to apply the price to an upgrade in the future, if you take care of the instrument.

I don't agree with other posts that indicate a teacher sending a student to a particular shop is looking for a kickback. That is simply not true. In my town there are two luthiers and tons of music stores carrying low quality instruments. One luthier caters to professionals and upcharges accordingly for similar services and instruments, the other to caters to students and prices his services at a reasonable cost.

Naturally, I tell my students to avoid the various music stores, as quality is questionable, avoid the luthier for the professionals and go to the luthier who caters to intermediate - professional level students.

What do I get in turn? My name on his list of available violin teachers, nothing more, and the satisfaction that my students are acquiring good instruments at a fair price.

December 5, 2015 at 05:11 AM · Sidetracking, but Steven, with regards to wolf notes, sometimes if you clamp down on the chinrest or tailpiece for that one note it can help. If the note is in a position where you can finger a lower octave that will mute the wolf as well.

December 5, 2015 at 06:46 AM · My school teacher would like me to get one at Robertsonandsons. And that's nowhere where I live. But my main school teacher says it'll be fine to go local so that's what I'll do.

December 6, 2015 at 12:16 AM · Thank you guys! I've gotten my new violin and it's great!

December 6, 2015 at 12:58 AM · Congrats! :)

Which one?

December 6, 2015 at 03:28 AM · Scott Cao 750E.

It's very full, and projects well.

It's a handmade Stradivari copy from European wood.

And Scott Cao is very reputable with many awards.

I feel so free! I can play at lighting speed and it feels like nothing troubles me!

I don't know how long I've been practicing.

My fingers are blackish but it isn't washing off.

Bruises perhaps?

It's still so wonderful.

I can't wait till my orchestra perks up when they hear me.

December 6, 2015 at 04:11 AM · It could be strings. I sometimes get black residue from some interaction between my skin chemistry and the strings.

Or it could be some fingerboard coloring. Some shops add coloring to the fingerboard because they think customers won't like the natural grain of the ebony.

Either way, I wouldn't worry about the coloring on your fingers. Unless they are bruises, of course. Then we need to address your death grip. ;-)

edit: BTW, congrats on the new violin! Isn't it a great feeling?

December 6, 2015 at 04:16 AM · It might be the new strings and the however long I practiced. 1-5 hours? I can't tell.

But yeah it feels great! I feel like the flash! So fast!

But it's also gorgeous and easy to play.

I can do dynamics now woop woop. I was just figuring it out a little in orchestra but now I can switch so easily.

December 6, 2015 at 11:30 AM · Really great news, Anna. Well done.

Now, some folk suggest all new fiddles change. It will be interesting to hear if you notice any changes to the dynamic range and tone of your fiddle as the first few months unfold.

Enjoy.

December 6, 2015 at 03:42 PM · Anything more to the dynamic range would be impressive. It's already so good in that area. It's the perfect sounding "violin", but if it does change then it could have a special tone.

At the shop I noticed some violins sound a lot more "violin" than others. I guess is had to do with clairity and tone.

I liked a Martin Beck that had a special tone, but the e-string was pretty off, and I didn't like it even when it was changed.

December 6, 2015 at 05:02 PM · I've heard nothing but awesome things about the Scott Cao violins, sounds like you got a winner!! :D

December 6, 2015 at 05:44 PM · I sure did. I wanna practice but I don't think I'll have enough time. I'm going to an orchestra concert later today.