Help on adapting a wolf tone suppressor in a violin E string

April 23, 2015 at 06:09 PM · I have a:

https://schneidermusik.de/shop2/product_info.php/products_id/140153

I bought it for a violin (excellent, otherwise) that has a wolf tone only in the first C in the E string.

The problem is that even if i tighten the screw in the suppressor, it never reaches a stage so that it's firm in the E string, because the string is thin (it's an aluminum wound Tonica). It goes on slipping......

Any advices? .....

Thanks, greetings.

Replies (27)

April 23, 2015 at 06:36 PM · It's quite unusual for a wolf note to be that high on the E string. Are you sure you are having a wolf note and not some issue like something loose or tailpiece touching the chinrest?

April 23, 2015 at 09:28 PM · Or a bump on the fingerboard? You could try a split shot fishing sinker or add a shim under the screw.

April 23, 2015 at 09:39 PM · It's not unusual to have a high wolf on the E string. I doubt this will work to fix it.

April 23, 2015 at 09:49 PM · I haven't tried one of these, but just because it's mounted on the E string doesn't mean that it's only for E string wolf notes. I expect that mounting it in the middle of the afterlength would get the frequency down to where you might affect the usual A and C wolfnotes.

As for a fix to the slipping, perhaps put a coat of nail polish on the E string to fatten it up before installing the eliminator.

April 23, 2015 at 11:43 PM · Just because the wolf sounds when you play a particular string it is not necessary to attach the eliminator to that string. The combination of the eliminator and the string afterlength it is attached to must create a resonator at the offending (body resonance) frequency.

Many cellos that exhibit their worst wolf on the G string are helped more by mounting the eliminator on the C string - and most important: TUNING THE ELIMINATOR so the afterlength produces the note of the wolf resonance (in spite of what some old-fashioned luthiers might tell you).

Andy

April 23, 2015 at 11:44 PM · sorry - doublepost!

April 25, 2015 at 01:41 AM · Thanks everybody for your replies.

I'm sure that it's a real wolf tone, and it's not caused by imperfections in the keyboard, etc.

I had tried mounting the eliminator in the G string, and i don't like the way it damps the whole string response........

I had the idea to test this type of eliminator when gently pushing with a finger in the middle of the E's afterlenght the wolf tone went away......

Even mounting this eliminator (though not in a fixed way) seemed to block the wolf tone......

I'll try to make it stick some more ......

April 25, 2015 at 10:28 PM · Try a Krentz modulator. It's a stunning piece of engineering (I'm a mech engineering major, love this stuff), very easy to use/adjust. Cellists have been giving it rave reviews, now they have a violin model, too.

http://krentzstringworks.com/innovations/modulator/

April 26, 2015 at 12:25 AM · I wasn't aware of this Krentz eliminator.......

I'm a bit skeptical, though..... :)

April 26, 2015 at 12:28 AM · A wolf tone in the E string would have a "brother" wolf in a lower string... I would take the violin to a luthier.

April 26, 2015 at 08:52 AM · I wonder if putting the mass on another, thicker string would not be as effective. Wolf-tones come mostly from the wood, but the placing of an eliminator can sometimes absorb some of the energy of our furry friend. Tapping the eliminator should give a "bonk" near the offending note.

April 26, 2015 at 03:39 PM · I have no wolf tone in other notes in this violin.

And this WF was not present in the first 2 years of the violin's life. It emerged in the last 2 (it was made in 2011).

I suspect that one day i will get up and the wolf tone will be gone, with the normal drying ..... :)

I talked about this WF many times with the luthier who made it. We experimented with several factors: new sound post, new positions in the sound post, etc, different tension strings... etc.

Until now, we have not found a way to defeat it...

Other than this, the violin sounds like a champion...... :)

April 26, 2015 at 05:32 PM · I'll bet you DO have other wolf notes but haven't found them. If I played your fiddle I'd find them in about 20 seconds.

April 26, 2015 at 05:38 PM · I'm a cellist as well as a violinist and I've got the new Krentz wolf eliminators on 2 of my 3 cellos, both of which (STRAD models) HAD F# wolves. The Krentz eliminator is really amazing! From a satisfied cellist who fought those wolves for 65 years, trying every solution available.

http://krentzstringworks.com/innovations/modulator/

You might find out if there are plans to design a smaller Krentz for violins and violas.

Andy

April 26, 2015 at 06:03 PM · How about a new bass bar and regraduation? New fingerboard as well.

April 27, 2015 at 10:52 AM · Many thanks to the everybody, but my original question was upon how to make THAT suppressor fit my E string.

I'm not interested into who is better finding wolf tones (this violin has no other WF. I can play violin to the point of being sure how it plays).

I'm not interested into regraduating it, and i'm not so interested into a snake oil....... ehm... magnet sort-of dampening system like the Krentz (in a violin...), which has a cost i cant' understand :) .....

Thanks.

April 27, 2015 at 09:04 PM · Have you tried the shim under the screw, and why didn't it work?

April 28, 2015 at 01:25 AM · No, i haven't tried it yet......

I have to think how i can do it......

April 28, 2015 at 01:32 PM · Marco, I think we understood o.k, but it is unusual to try a wolf eliminator on the E string.

Did anyone actually ask whether it is effective on this particular wolf?

May 17, 2015 at 12:23 PM · I've been thinking about this as I have a bad wolf on the open E and various makes and types of strings have not solved it. (The E's that don't have a wolf sound awful).

But I have just resorted to taking off the mute from where it normally sits, on the G string. (It's a Heifetz mute). I think this may have an undesirable effect when parked.

I've also tried sticking bits of blue-tack onto the various strings with very mixed and often undesirable results.

Maybe a tiny bit on the bridge?

Will experiment.

May 17, 2015 at 01:08 PM · Marco, the wolf in question (C a 6th above open E) is a common problem. Unless it's just an octave above a wolf one third above open A, it may not respond much to a normal wolf corrector.

Does it really work? (Apart from the problem of sliding).

I've tried a very little blue-tack on the inner "wing" of each f-hole; this shifts the problem a little higher or lower, whereit may interact less with other resonances. If you find the right amount, you could try sticking it on the inside.

I've lost the links, but this strange experiment has been tried by a serious researcher (Buen).

June 15, 2016 at 06:48 PM · KRENTZ wolf eliminator and "sound modulator" UPDATES.

Since this thread closed about a month ago I've had additional experience with the KRENTZ devices.

1. I have added one to my third cello, the one with no wolf, but with some toughish response problems above the C string's first octave. Properly adjusted the KRENTZ reduced this problem significantly.

2. I put a VIOLA KRENTZ on my 16 inch viola that had a bit of a raspy C string that did not match its more powerful and "smooth" G, D, and A strings. Now the C string is every bit as good as the other strings - a really amazing transformation.

3. After those experiences I purchased a VIOLIN KRENTZ and I have tried it on all 4 of my violins. On the two that I normally would select from for orchestral playing (because with them I can always hear myself - no matter what) they did not do anything helpful for the sound, nor did I expect they would. But on the two violins that I had in mind when I ordered the violin Krentz, they became strong on all strings, and especially the G string - matching more closely the other two violins that I have favored.

So I have ordered one more VIOLIN KRENTZ so that all my violins will match my taste all the time.

Andy

June 15, 2016 at 07:58 PM · The Krenz contains a mobile mass which vibrates "out of sync" withe excessiven wood vibrations. Before buying one, one could try a blob of Blu-tack in various places onthe belly (e.g. near the chinrerst, or near the right foot of the bridge) which may absorb or displace the wolves, but also affect the instrument's character. The Krenz should absorb the wolf without damping th main vibrations.

June 15, 2016 at 09:40 PM · Adrian, isn't the Krenz (like most wolf eliminators) basically a vibration dampener?

And if it absorbs certain vibrations, won't it inevitably alter the character of an instrument's overall sound?

June 15, 2016 at 10:14 PM · David, yes, probably. I meant that my Blue-tack test just adds "dead" mass to slow down certain vibrations, while both sorts of more mobile mass may absorb or even cancel them.

But I often hear that the best instruments harbour strong resonances.

January 2, 2017 at 07:20 PM · I'm late on this but had the same problem: wolf on b or c on the E string. It turns out the soundpost was too far to the treble side. Have you tried moving the soundpost towards the bass side? It could shift the wolf tone to the D or G string where placing the suppressor should be easier.

January 2, 2017 at 07:50 PM · Is there a sound post crack?

Can you hear a frequency peak @ C (louder sound) on G, D and A strings?

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