My boss has an Old violin. It is an interesting thing. It appears to be a knockoff of Joseph Guanerius. The sticker on the inside says Loseph Quanerius 1695. I have some pictures here. They aren't very good at showing the rather large hump in the middle on both the face and the back. The hump makes a good 4 inches of space between the face and the back. Any information you can give would be greatly appreciated. The photo's are dated. The pegs have been cut to the proper length.
You had this discussed on maestronet, unfortunatly the only real expert, Jacob Saunders, was on "vacation" I wouldn't take seriously any "appraisal" from anyone else here or there. It looks like a nice violin, though, worth fixing if you can afford the repairs IMO
Though Lyndon seems less than charitable this evening, he is correct that Jacob might be of some help, as he has quite a bit of experience with the sort of fiddle you are inquiring about. Maybe try contacting him directly.
Really Lyndon. Although many who have status in that department (expertise/appraisal) on MN didn't respond, including Jacob... Bruce Carlson did. Maybe it might be better to explain that you can't participate there anymore, and that upsets you, rather than denigrating other's reputations.
Jefferey, how rude, but you're right, there are a select few quite qualified people on maestronet, however almost as a rule, they don't comment on common peoples instruments like this one, Jacob Saunders does,
I was referring to the "experts" that commented in this same violins thread on maestronet, some rather outlandish claims about the violin being a typical schoenbach duzenarbeit from the 18th to the 20th century, not that I'm sure what it is, but rather I'm sure the posters have no more idea than I do.
PS Bruce Carlson made a comment on the label, but as usual made no reference to the age, type or country of origin of the violin, I believe, very not helpful. Perhaps you could give this poor guy an indication what kind of fiddle he has.....
As to why you banned me from Maestronet, I remember distinctly it was because I refused to kiss axx to your best buddy, the egotistical "god" of maestronet, David Burgess. It was truly a case of the emperor having no clothes and the person pointing it out had to be got rid of!!!
Lyndon; You are welcome to recall events however you wish. I'm sure we all create our own realities from time to time (remember things in a way that may not be entirely accurate). Human nature. Just wish you could do so without insulting others, stating incorrectly judged motives and justifying your position at the expense of others in a public forum. That said, I feel nothing against you personally.
I've rarely offered opinions about this type of instrument when inquiries appear on the net... unless I've seen/am familiar with exactly what was pictured and had a very good idea which atelier in which it was manufactured. It's not the type of fiddle I work on, or have contact with, on a regular basis, so the only observations I could offer are general ones concerning origin, model and age. I'm sure the OP will find eventually someone willing to help with more specific information. Possibly Jacob.
It would be better if Lyndon and Jeffrey gave us facts, chapter and verse, rather than epithets - I'd like to keep ALL our luthiers on this site!
And, David, if Lyndon DOES have a point, there are few people more endearing than people who admit their mistakes.
Well you fired the first shot Jefferey, I was specifically banned for argueing the merits of Simone Sacconis violin varnish undercoat, which I have tried with success on multiple instruments, and was met by total derision and prolonged attacks from David and his "groupies", who obviously hadn't even tried using it properly, if at all, In fact Michael Darnton PM'd me to mention how disgusted he was by David's bullying behaviour, your response was to ban me, not David; no sweat,you've got your forum, now Michael has his, but if you want to come over and police this thread without offering any helpful advice on the violin for the OP, you're just trolling, not contributing.
Hi John; The facts are that in order to obtain reasonably good quality information concerning the fiddle presented by the OP, it should be shown to someone who is familiar with that school of making. We all tend to have strengths and weaknesses that depend on what we are used to seeing/working on regularly, or what sort of instruments interest us most. It's my opinion that it's important that one has a good grasp on what they know themselves, as well as who is a reliable person to consult when a piece falls outside that set, so to speak.
I believe Lyndon's suggestion to consult Jacob was a good one, which I've mentioned twice before in this thread. His father was a maker in England, and he gained experience working for Machold's firm as well as extensively studying the Germanic/Austrian makers. I've found him very reliable evaluating 19th century fiddles of this type. Therefore, the OP has plenty of information that should allow him to move forward.
With the risk of being accused of further use of epithets and being a "troll" (gosh, I don't think I used language anywhere close to this personally); Lyndon. I stated my concerns and as I mentioned, you are welcome to recall events any way you wish, although I assure you that the action had little to do with David. I have difficulty when respected experts, many who participate on the "other" board (as well as some occasionally on this one), are denigrated because they've chosen not to participate on a particular thread or that you might harbor ill feelings. If you see this as a "shot", so be it.
For what its worth, my non expert opinion on the OPs violin, it appears to be very German(or Bohemian, maybe). It looks like instruments I have seen dating before 1850, very not 1900 Schoenbach duzenarbeit, I appears it might have a grafted heel where a shorter neck has been lengthened to modern spec by adding wood on the end and cutting away some original wood on the inside of the heel to make the neck effectively longer, if this is indeed the case and the wood has been added, it almost has to be before 1850 and possibly even before 1800, if the neck is not grafted, and one piece then it cannot likely date before 1800 unless the whole neck is a replacement. The exaggerated high very long flat section arching was seen more often in 1800s copies of 1700s German models than in original 1700s ones, but as I said It would take an expert like Jacob, to tell you for sure, all I can say is I would be interested in such a violin, its definetly not junk, but it does look like it needs a lot of repairs to be worth as much as it could be.
I'm not denigrating any real experts, just saying that many of them flat out refuse to comment on anything that doesn't come from Cremona, which is fine if that's all your interested in. The people on your forum I was denigrating is complete wannabees that try to do "appraisals" which are more miss than hit, having really no idea or the experience necessary to do such. I hope you will remember that I have always made it quite clear that I am not an expert, I work on cheaper instruments, ONLY, I don't do appraisals, just informed opinions or if an instrument might be valuable, referals, and if I ever get any violin that is classified as special in any way, I take it to my friend who is a world acknowledged expert and let him do the work, he also appraises my violins.
Jeffery I'd like you to read my original comment which triggered your rude response about me being banned from your forum.
You had this discussed on maestronet, unfortunatly the only real expert, Jacob Saunders, was on "vacation" I wouldn't take seriously any "appraisal" from anyone else here or there. It looks like a nice violin, though, worth fixing if you can afford the repairs IMO [EDIT] [Flag?]
I don't see what the controversy is; of all the contributors on both these forums, this is a question only Jacob is willing and able to answer, I think you'll have to agree, I'm not talking about other real experts who aren't in the habit of contributing on threads like these, that doesn't count. Would that all the myriad non experts would be as careful about doing online appraisals, as the real experts are, then we wouldn't have this mess, of thoroughly confused OPs that don't have a clue who to believe or trust, If you ever allowed me back on your forum, you can bet those phony appraisers aren't going to get no slack from me!! them and the super gluers, revarnishers, and regraduaters!!.
"You had this discussed on maestronet, unfortunatly the only real expert, Jacob Saunders, was on "vacation" I wouldn't take seriously any "appraisal" from anyone else here or there."
"As to why you banned me from Maestronet, I remember distinctly it was because I refused to kiss axx to your best buddy, the egotistical "god" of maestronet, David Burgess. It was truly a case of the emperor having no clothes and the person pointing it out had to be got rid of!!!"
"I was specifically banned for argueing the merits of Simone Sacconis violin varnish undercoat, which I have tried with success on multiple instruments, and was met by total derision and prolonged attacks from David and his "groupies", who obviously hadn't even tried using it properly, if at all"
I just now read this thread. Wow. Just wow!
I think it's pretty clear who has the propensity to be derisive. ;-)
As far as I've been able to notice, no one has ever been banned from Maestronet for advocating Sacconi's theories, or for disagreeing with mine.
Perhaps you need to dig a little deeper to understand the reason(s) for getting booted? :-)
Anyone here who's a troll: I suggest you have pear gynt for dessert. And keep away from bridges and goats.
David, how quickly you forget the incident in question and your behaviour in it!! I'd refer you to the thread on maestronet about silicate treatment as an undercoat to varnish, but that thread has been conveniently removed by the moderator, who is making the claim I don't remember what happened, which I certainly do.
I read in Wikipedia: Sacconi has directly influenced ... Hans Weisshaar ... from the shop of Hans Weisshaar came ... David Burgess. What led you to reject the ideas of your forebears, David (If, as I think, the emphasis on stand oils came after Sacconi's death, more needs to be added to his theories, but does that mean that stuff needs to be taken away)?
I read that the visibility of traces of condensation on the surface of these old instruments following a short contact with human skin was a feature. Probably the main cause is the hydrophobic nature of the surface (indicating use of stand oils), but is there some strange refraction going on as well?
Lyndon, I acknowledge that you may read and interpret and remember things differently from other people, including Jeffrey and I (and I saved one or more of the threads for reference, before they were deleted). As I recall, this was one of the things which was problematic about your participation on Maestronet.
I don't see any value in recreating some of the problems which once existed there, by bringing them over to this forum.
John, we all stand on the shoulders of those who came before us. However, this doesn't mean that we agree with every detail of every thought they had, nor would that even be possible. Those who worked directly with Sacconi say that his thoughts and conclusions were changing all the time, as he continued to observe and experiment. That's one of the things which was so valuable about him... that he didn't become stuck and intransigent in his beliefs. He was always embracing new information and ideas, and often changed his mind from one week to the next. So his book (and particularly the varnish chapter) represents "a snapshot in time" of his thoughts, and is best understood that way.
Thank you for the help. If I were to get a hold of Jakob Saunders how would I do that? Is he a member of the Mastronet forum or the Violinist forum? Thank you again for the information given.
Jacob contributes to the Maestronet forum regularly, but it may be better in this case to contact him personally. His website address is: http://www.geigenbau-saunders.at/en/about-us/violin-repair/
The maker might have had a "j" in his phonology that isn't pronounced like a "y", so that when someone said "Yoseph" to him, he could have spelled it "Loseph". Similarly, his "g" might have been thoroughly voiced, so that when his interlocutor pronounced the "Gu" with negligible voicing, he will have spelled it "Qu". The Welsh to English interlocution might fit the second paradigm (Remember Fluellen's "Alexander the Pig" in Henry The Fifth?), but not the first, so it's ruled out.
My Boss does play. He's not classically trained, but he does play fiddle. He informs me that he raised the chin rest because it was hitting on the tail piece. He admits that it was just cobbed up. He has taken it to several others to have them play it. The problem he has ran into is that none of them will give any information on it or possible history. I will try getting a hold of that guy and we want to thank all of you for all the information you have given us. It has helped tremendously finding the history of this instrument.
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April 1, 2014 at 06:36 PM · It looks like an old English fiddle to me, of moderate value.