scale modes for improvisiation

December 15, 2011 at 03:51 AM · If you can play a G maj scale, you can also play in D mixolydian, A Dorian minor, E Aeolian min, and F# Phyrgian min, because they are all the notes contained in the Gmaj scale. Just by starting, emphasizing and stopping in different places.

Mixolydian: I've heard it described as in limbo between Major and minor, leaning a bit toward major. Much energy in Mixo.

Dorian minor: a smooth light minor, commonly used in jazz, very fluid. Also applied to many other genre's.

Aeolian minor: otherwise known as true or pure minor. This is the sad/beautiful minor.

Phyrgian minor: I have 2 takes on this one. a very Spanish/Flamenco minor or can be turned rather ominous for heavy metal and such.

Locrian & Lydian are more jazz modes. I have some applications for Locrian. With Lydian, not so much. When inquiring of an excellent jazz/swing mandolin player, he said for Lydian think the theme from the Simpsons!?

Warning: for any interested in improv, if you start in on the modes, you might actually like it, and it may hook you.

Comments/opinions welcome.

Replies (57)

December 15, 2011 at 04:44 AM · I love the modes. Each one feels like a planet in the solar system. Used to hate them when I had to learn Bartok as a small child, but now they are a refreshing change.

December 15, 2011 at 05:42 AM · >Each one feels like a planet in the solar system.<

Emily: This statement is poetry to my ears.

I've searched long and far for just one other violinist who feels this way about the modes.

Thank You!

December 15, 2011 at 06:15 AM · I started messing around with them before I got a teacher, but I haven't thought about them in a while. I feel like a good book concerning modal scales and applications is just asking to be written and become a standard pedagogical tool (I may also be ignorant to one that exists). Maybe the applications are more in line with jazz and other non-classical styles, but I can only see benefits in practicing them for classical musicians.

December 15, 2011 at 05:09 PM · although I have the utmost respect and admiration for both classical players and fiddlers, I am neither, so I can't speak to applications in those areas. But it sure do work great for 12 bar blues. Besides the standard pentatonic and blues scales (among other things) I use dorian & mixolydian quite a bit for blues/swing, in any combination over the I, IV or V chords, and depending whether the setting is dominant 7th, straight major or minor.

Another thing I like about it is you can play along with pretty much any form of "popular" music using modes. Stating the obvious here for many... Major keys with relative minors Cmaj = Amin(aeolian) same notes.

As for a book, one that emphasized applications would be good. I've thought about it more than once, but probably too ambitious for me.

December 15, 2011 at 08:08 PM ·

December 15, 2011 at 08:38 PM · I think modes started to make sense to me one night in that half-asleep state that inspirations often come from. I was thinking about a Loreena McKennitt song, went over the scale in my head, and realized that the song was in G Mixolydian. My last thought as I drifted off to sleep was: "Hey, she's playing in the key of G7!"

December 15, 2011 at 11:33 PM · quote Eric Rowe: >and I've been practising them all equally from the start.

Eric: when you practice them, do you play them by themselves and just listen for the tonal centers of each mode, or do you practice them with the appropriate chord or chord progression for accompaniment?

Charlie: I can't quite remember anymore the time and place when it all clicked in for me. But I do remember it as a "Eureka" moment.

December 16, 2011 at 02:06 AM · I think anyone who gets involved with folk music (that of Ireland in particular) will soon start to think modally. Start playing the folk music of Eastern Europe and you'll be introduced to other scales, not necessarily modal in the Irish sense.

December 16, 2011 at 02:20 AM · Jamey Aebersold has made a career out of teaching jazz scales. I'd check out some of his stuff.

December 16, 2011 at 07:13 AM · Yes, I've learned a lot from Mr. Aebersold and have a couple of his books. Even talked to him on the phone once! Jamie offers 16 patterns for one of my all time favourite progressions, a minor II V7 I, say D min7b5 to G7#9 to Cmin. The min7b5 is locrian and the 7#9 is a diminished/whole tone, which is a marvellous scale, and to quote Jamie: produces much tension and beauty.

I'm also fond of diminished scales and like to try and work them in and out of the IV chord on a 12 bar. A while back I started some work on augmented arpeggios with whole tone scales, but still quite away to go on that.

"Dying is easy, Jazz is hard".

December 16, 2011 at 07:41 AM · Trevor: by Eastern Europe do you mean Gypsy music perchance? Gotta luv that Gypsy violin, yes? I only know about 3 gypsy tunes and they aint real fast & flashy. But I do get a tremendous kick out of those leap of faith jumps from the first position up to the shoulder.

As for modal playing in fiddle tunes, I'm definitely aware of it, just can't do it. Don't have the short bow strokes and string crossing for it. Just doesn't seem to be in me!

December 16, 2011 at 08:10 AM · This subject and series of posts has come up at just the right time for me as I'm starting to look at more folk based tunes and making music with others at jam sessions and the like.

I'd always noticed when messing about on the guitar that if you took the I (G), IV (C) and V (D) chords in the key of G, but played them from the starting and ending point of V (D), how you automatically got a folky sound.

I never stopped beyond that to think about it further - at previous mentions of modes my eyes used to glaze over - so thanks for this enlightenment!

December 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM ·

December 16, 2011 at 04:36 PM · Julian: you're welcome! I find modes very handy for folk. Aeolian of course, for the relative minor and also mixo & dorian.

Eric: I've found what I think is a cool application for modal triads for bluesy swingy stuff, mostly over the IV chord in a dominant7 setting.

Interval combinations and sequences ascending & descending that can be done with a major scale over how many octaves, can be converted to any mode and applied in context. A lot of potential over just running modal scales.

December 17, 2011 at 10:55 AM · Playing Scottish and Irish I've given some attention to Aeolian, Mixo & Dorian, as Dave says. But this thread has inspired me to think about getting more systematic with the modes. But how?

Some time ago I bought a little book which I've been too intimidated to get going with. It's Arnie Berle's "Encyclopedia of Scales, Modes and Melodic Patterns" (Mel Bay). Terrible name, because it's far more than a reference book - it's a comprehensive approach to using scales for developing the ear. It's designed to give beginners a solid foundation before they go on to work with fancy progressions. And it gives a particularly thorough approach to mastering the modes.

The elements are:

- melodic patterns (a simple example - 123/234/345 etc). There are a few dozen of these.

- chord patterns (triad, sixth, ninth etc, with inversions)

- key movements (half-step, whole step, minor third, perfect fourth)

He then steps through the eight modes in all keys, with all combinations of these patterns. Finally, he works through various minors, pentatonics, Jazz scales and exotic scales.

It's for all instruments, so you'd need a decent knowledge of the violin fingerboard before you could tackle it. Clearly, the classical fingering systems are too limited for this, so I'm beginning to dip my toe into Mike Laird's "Arpeggios, Rhythms and Scales". If you combined Mike's intelligent approach to fingering with Arnie's modal workout, you'd be well on your way to mastering the modes, methinks. Ok - so that's my new year's resolution sorted out!

Hope someone finds this useful...

December 17, 2011 at 06:28 PM · Geoff: Arnie Berle's book sounds great. Thanks! I've got a couple of old jazz books (besides Aebersold's stuff) with lotsa patterns for all sorts of things. They touch on modes but not as in depth as what it sounds like Arnie's does.

I've also got Mike Laird's book as of a couple of years ago. I had trouble sorting out the number system that goes with the notes so unfortunately I never got going on it. Mike told me via email to give him a shout with any questions so I guess it's my own fault. But I understand the concept, which is excellent. And I agree, a combination of Arnie & Mike would be deadly!

My problem is that I don't know which way to jump sometimes. So much to learn and practice...so little time for those of us with a day job. So I'm just gonna go out busking Christmas Carols. I put some PI's on for busking and really liking them... and the money is good. Took in $60 last night for a couple of hours and $150 today!

December 17, 2011 at 11:02 PM ·

December 18, 2011 at 09:21 AM · Eric

The Berle book is somewhat less ambitious than your 351 pattern project! It's meant for beginners, and mainly focuses on the modes and modal arpeggios to establish a systematic approach to using scales for improvisation. It's only a short book - he sketches out the method and leaves you to fill in the gaps. If everything was notated in full the book would become vast!

Personally that's about the limit of my ambition, as I'm not really interested in atonal stuff.

If you want to be able to hit any interval pattern outside of the common tonal scales, you might be interested in the Terje Moe Hansen Method. As a player he focuses on modern classical repertoire and feels that traditional scales don't provide a good enough foundation. So he developed a practice method that seems to rely on mathematical permutations of intervals (over 3 octaves!) rather than tonal scales. There's a sample of the second book online. Too advanced for me, but it sounds as if it might suit your way of thinking.

Just spotted your blog posting on the positions, by the way. Makes a lot of sense to me, particularly for improv. When you're not reading, you simply want to hear a note internally and for your finger to fall on it. I find I've rarely got much idea of what position I'm in when I'm playing by ear, but like you I'm not sure it really matters. Good to know that Flesch agreed!

But I guess we shouldn't hijack the thread. If one of you guys wanted to start a discussion on fingering for improv, I'd be interested in your views...

December 18, 2011 at 02:51 PM · sure, here's the way I think it out. Only 7 closed string finger patterns for the major scales in the first position over 4 strings. C D E F G A B. Closed string patterns for the remaining 5 keys of Ab Bb Eb Db F# are just a half step up or down, but are the same as one of the other 7. As you go up the fingerboard by half & whole steps, these 7 major scale patterns just change from one to another over 4 strings.

I'm getting to the point where I can recognize very quickly whether I'm in a CDEFGAB major scale pattern pretty much any where on the finger board, BUT I can also adapt those patterns anywhere I happen to be, into major & minor pentatonic scales, blues scales, or any of the modes. This gives me a pretty wide range of improv options.

If I don't feel like riffing around the G & D strings up around the 5th pos, I just shift down a ways to where it's more comfortable across 4 strings. But still using those 7 major scale patterns as a "foundation" for pentatonic, blues, and mode scales, all of which I seem to just visualize as a mental image across the 4 strings.

As for scales like diminished, whole tone, altered, or what have you, I'm still working those out in the first position, and always looking for more applications.

But this thread has got me thinking it would probably be well worth my time to try and get a handle on Mike Laird's methods.

December 19, 2011 at 12:37 AM ·

December 19, 2011 at 10:53 AM · Dave, have you looked at my scale stuff?

gc

December 19, 2011 at 06:26 PM · Hello Graham: yes, the method divided up into 4 sections: modes, intervals, chords & scale fragments. The 4 finger combinations appealed to me the most, but after taking another look at it just now, the intervals & chord sections would be very beneficial for me. Thanks for the reminder.

and while we're on the subject... I believe I saw a post of yours that said something to the effect that you do most of your melody lines on one string without a lot of string crossing. Correct me if I didn't get this quite right, but if this is the case, please expound, as I've always been quite curious about this.

PS I'd mention that it can be found over in fiddle forum, GC scale method under practice/teaching, but I don't know if that would be proper!

December 19, 2011 at 10:05 PM · I have posted it here in the past.

I thought the practice method of putting the root of each mode between each degree of the scale might be relevant in this context.

As for what I do on one string - I try to keep each phrase on one string, or split it sensibly...

...Don't always, but it's a nice goal.

Sometimes I play a line with one finger on one string - how about that? hehheh!

gc

December 20, 2011 at 01:41 AM · quote gc: I thought the practice method of putting the root of each mode between each degree of the scale might be relevant in this context.

Graham, I could kiss you! I started working this out with Lydian, and yes, I had an epiphany. Whoa Nellie I'm excited! For the first time in my life I'm hearing and playing Lydian. It's a magical mode, looking for words to describe it... It's like Mixolydian reflected back from another dimension... soooo cool. Hearing it now in a C maj scale but won't be long until I can hear it all over the place. I don't know why it's eluded me for so long, hiding there in the sharp IV.

just found this out. Haven't listened yet, but apparently Ludwig van does some riffin' in Lydian in the String Quartet no. 15 in A minor Op. 132

It's a Great Day, drinks are on me...

December 20, 2011 at 02:19 AM · Lydian - it's the True Tonic!

gc

December 20, 2011 at 08:44 AM · Are you guys fairdinkum?

How come you never played the Lydian Mode?

It's the scale on the chord of the IV degree of the Major scale...one of the three primary chords, many tunes have it!

The Lydian Mode can also be supperimposed over any other chord, if you really want to......

For instance...on the C tonic chord, play the notes in the key of G major.....etc.

December 20, 2011 at 09:57 AM · I have to mention George Russell here.

His book "The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organisation for Improvisation" has been hugely influential in the world of jazz, as has been Nicolas Slonimsky's "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns."

December 20, 2011 at 11:21 AM · The Lydian Chromatic Concept

That;s just a chosen name...nothing to do with the Lydian Mode????

December 20, 2011 at 02:20 PM · "nothing to do with the Lydian Mode"

Do you know the book, Henry?

Have you read any of it?

December 20, 2011 at 09:41 PM · obviously not, sorry.

oh boy, that is an expensive book!

December 21, 2011 at 02:24 PM · Yes, it is pricey, but you might find it in a music library.

There are several key concepts in the book.

The first is that, for several reasons, the Lydian mode is the "true" major scale, that is, the most stable. For example, if you play a perfect fourth (eleventh) over a major seventh chord, it clashes and sounds wrong, while sharpening it, (#11) sounds good.

Hindemith pointed out that perfect fourths resolve up, while perfect fifths resolve down. As the Lydian mode is the only one that has a p. fifth relative to its root, but no p. fourth, it is the only mode that truly resolves back to its root.

(There is more, and some more that was part of my own work on interval vectors, but I don't have time to go into it right now.)

The next great concept is that of Tonal Gravity, in which Russell discusses how all tones have different levels of stability relative to the root. He likens this to the solar system with each tone as a different planet with a different weight or gravity pull. This applies to the five non-diatonic tones as well as the seven in the scale - they just have less gravity. Hence "Lydian Chromatic"

As long as you are building from the Lydian Mode, you can add any non-scale tone to create further scales. You can also then remove tones to give other scales.

The book also contains a great number of specific exercises to allow the student to internalise this approach to tonal organisation.

You end up being able to play any tone in any context, and knowing how to resolve it, and make sense of it tonally.

Another concept is the idea of horizontal (or linear/melodic) and vertical (chord-based/harmonic/arpeggiated improvisation).

There is much more, but really they're just applications and extensions of these ideas.

gc

December 21, 2011 at 05:28 PM · Thank you for that input Graham. I only have a minimal and more intuitive grasp on most of what you're saying, but at least I can hear it now.

I've been playing along with youtube guitarists doing Lydian solo's a la Joe Satriani. I'm prolly in the infatuation stage right now, but I'm really digging this mode. Ethereal, outside, kind of a fearless untamed beauty and energy that comes from the major, at least in a Satriani context.

So far I've got about 3 chords for it. Maj7 which seems to soften it considerably. Or add9 and major power chords for more dynamics.

Graham, could you post me a couple of chord progressions? I could put them into my sequencer and start taking it thru the keys!

December 21, 2011 at 09:26 PM · I don't see it in terms of particular sequences, Dave, just that the major needs the augmented fourth.

I'll put a sharp eleventh over anything, and change it if it doesn't work.

December 22, 2011 at 04:42 PM · Whatever works - do it. If its modes, go for it. My own experience is that arpeggios are a more productive use of practice time. They instantly put the hand in the right position for many notes in the chord, they teach the 3d and 7th at the same time, many licks are built from arpeggios, one learns the finger board, and other benefits. If you add just one more note to major and minor 7th arpeggio practice, the augmented 4th, you can play blues, dominant 5 chords, majors, minors, and sharp 11's - that's a lot of jazz music.

Regarding scales, I practice the notes of dominant bebop, but I seldom play the scale itself, i.e., I invent licks using the notes of dominant bebop in ever changing rhythms. Of course, I do the same with arpeggios.

Modal scales are always in music theory to make various points and illustrations, and many teachers use them. But scales don't create much interesting jazz music. You are what you practice, so I don't play modal scales. But if it works for you, go for it.

Dave, I'm sorry to hear you had trouble following the fingering numbers in Arpeggios, Rhythms and Scales. You might try different color highlights (via a highlight marker) on the fingerings you want to practice. Also, there are blues exercises, rhythm exercises, and 20+ improvisation exercises at the end of the book to work on. Oh, and it has several modal scales in all keys too, if they work for you. ;-)

December 22, 2011 at 05:35 PM · Mike

I understand what you are saying about the utility of arpeggios vs scales, but as a beginner don't you also have to work with the complete scale to train the ear in the scale's tonality? Plus, 3-4 note scale runs are surely pretty common in most genres of music?

December 22, 2011 at 06:39 PM · There are no shortcuts: you need to work on individual notes, intervals, scales, arpeggios, scale fragments, and finger permutations.

Leave anything out, and you will be limiting yourself.

What's most productive?

Singing along with whatever you do.

gc

December 22, 2011 at 06:41 PM · Hi Mike: of course it's not the book, it's me. I can only read very slowly and even slower a distance above the top line. and I have to guess at the timing. Combine that with the numbers and it's a bit daunting. but I have a plan involving the shop kid where I bought my violin.

I can do the arpeggios for the II V7 I (using maj7 for the I) over the 4 strings around the circle in first position, but that's about it. Your book would take me up the finger board.

a brief defence of modes: one does not have to follow the notes one after another and they can be mixed up in any possible combination. Also, you can do modal triads, interval sequences 3rds, 4ths, whatever you can think of I guess, and you don't have to worry about hitting a wrong note as long as you're playing notes within the modal major scale, yes?

modes may not be the best for genuine jazz, more of a generic cover for multiple styles and different chord progressions? But I think they're a pretty good bluff! (haha)

RE: "No shortcuts"/"bluff"

I was typing when Graham put his post in. Now I'm in trouble! (grin)

December 22, 2011 at 08:40 PM ·

December 23, 2011 at 12:03 AM · Eric: I'm starting to get interested in this. Lessee if I've got this straight. you layout interval patterns for whatever and then overlay them with fingerings-hence the 2D? How do you indicate shifts? Do you use outside reference sources for optimum shifting, or are these also of your own invention?

December 23, 2011 at 12:06 AM · Quote Geoff Caplan

Mike

I understand what you are saying about the utility of arpeggios vs scales, but as I beginner don't you also have to work with the complete scale to train the ear in the scale's tonality? Plus, 3-4 note scale runs are surely pretty common in most genres of music? [Flag?]

Geoff: I see the logic in your post, but don't consider myself qualified to give you an answer.

December 23, 2011 at 10:37 AM ·

December 23, 2011 at 02:32 PM · Eric

This would be easier if you could post a graphic example. Sounds like you've been doing some original thinking, and I'd like to understand it better...

December 23, 2011 at 05:49 PM · Eric: it sounds like this might be worth while pursuing. I'd prolly be interested in buying a book about this. you might want to do some test marketing

meanwhile... just made an amazing mode discovery from youtube guitar teacher Wallimann on how to apply locrian (minor7b5) arpeggios over all the modes.

The kicker is, I've known these arps for 10 yrs as

minor6 arps (turns out they're inversions of each other) I've always thought they sounded very cool, but only had limited applications for blues.

Thanks to Wallimann, I can now apply them in any mode context. Absolutely amazing as these minor7b5 arps take on the flavour of each mode, opens it up and takes it outside.

Very excited!

December 23, 2011 at 08:49 PM · Photobucket

I have no idea how to change the size of this image, it certainly looks too big. Anyway, I did this years and years ago and I've seen something like this mentioned here a few times. It represents all the modes in the one position over an imaginary 7 stringed violin...thus any 4 adjacent patterns are superimposed over the 4 strings of the violin and are applied to any postion on the fiddle. It helped me to identify the patterns across the strings and shifting on a string.

December 24, 2011 at 12:24 AM · Thanks for posting the chart.

I'll cogitate and experiment in the morning - too late to get my head around it now!

December 24, 2011 at 01:48 AM · Geoff,

Regarding training the ear about tonality. Again, its a matter of what works best for each individual. What is mixolydian? Its a scale that matches the tonality of a Dominant 7th arpeggio - or is it the reverse? What is dorian? Its a scale that matches the tonality of a Minor 7th arpeggio - or is it the reverse? One can go on with lots of matches.

Four note scale lead-ins - sure they have a place, and some people use them a lot. Charlie Parker almost never used this figure. So its a question of what do you want to sound like. You perform like you practice.

Eric proposes to focus on intervals rather than either scales or arpeggios. I had a music theory teacher (and jazz composer) who thought like this and it was easy for him. I could never keep all those changing intervals in my head and draw on them for real time decisions while improvising - nor could anyone else in the class. But if it works, do it.

December 24, 2011 at 01:54 AM ·

December 24, 2011 at 01:58 AM ·

December 24, 2011 at 07:27 AM · I'm not sure why you need 10 lines, the 8th line is a repeat of the 1st but backwards a semi-tone like the 7th line, so the 7 patterns are repeated 1/2 a step back. No, the numbered fingers are not needed, it is a proto type. Yes, I did harmonic and melodic minors, and pentatonic patterns.

December 24, 2011 at 08:13 AM ·

December 24, 2011 at 12:28 PM · http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM_EvoSMyBI&feature=related

Here's that teaching video about the min7b5 arps. around 3:10 he starts the examples for G Ionian, D mixo, C aeolian, A dorian. What do you guys think of this?

it seems that Maj7 arps can be used in much the same way as the min7b5 arps. but since I've been up since 4:30 am fooling around with that and it's now 6:30 am, I think I'll go back to bed and continue that later.

December 24, 2011 at 09:24 PM · @Eric

Didn't I privately send you a chart like this about 6 weeks ago (albeit rotated by 90% and without the names of the modes or explicit fingers numbered)?

That wasn't me - though if you're up for sending it privately through v.com I'd be most grateful!

December 24, 2011 at 09:38 PM · @Dave

Thanks for the video link. That guy Wallimann really has a knack for getting complex ideas over simply.

Did you spot this one on the use of modes over minor pentatonics? Gives a clear and learnable way to add modes to basic blues improv without frying your brain...

December 25, 2011 at 12:12 AM ·

December 25, 2011 at 10:21 AM · @ Geoff: and thank you for that link. I've been working modes into pentatonic & blues scales for a few years now, BUT more by thinking in 2 separate boxes like Wallimann said in your link. should work on adding the 6th & 9th. That guy has some nice back tracks eh?

@Eric: the Aug & Dim stuff sounds fascinating. I don't know how close I am to grasping it, but I'm not there yet. Sounds like you're a ways ahead of me in this kind of theory. I know my 3 diminished scales and the 2 whole tone scales and some applications.

made myself a reference chart for Dorian, Phyrgian, Lydian, Mixo & Aeolian for the keys of C,G,D,A,E for the minor6 & Major7 arps. Here's what one line looks like:

A aeolian = Cmaj scale = Dmin6 arp = Fmaj7 arp

the Dmin6 & Fmaj7 arps all hit on notes of the Cmaj scale, but each is a different kind of "outside". Very cool sounding, and amazing how the arps take on the flavor of whatever mode they're applied to! I had a feeling that memorizing and practising all those min6 & maj7 arps over 4 strings would pay off some day! I've got appropriate back tracks for each mode, so I'll be working on blending the arps in & out of the modal scales.

Sure glad I started this thread. lernt a whole bunch from it, albeit rather serendipitously starting from "hearing" Lydian. Thanks for staying with me here so far, guys, & MERRY CHRISTMAS.

December 26, 2011 at 11:10 AM · The interesting thing I find is that particular aspects of theory can be looked at in many different ways and you latch on to the one that jells with you. Such as Fdim7... cricky, what are the notes again? Well, if you take the tonic note to be the second note ( in other words...the b9th! ) of a chord, in this case you have....Eb9. So, if you practise all your dominant flattened 9th 'arps'...automatically you have dim7th's already 'in hand'.

I stopped mapping out the '7-string-patterns', because, after practising what I did map out, everything else falls under the fingers if I focus on antisipating the pitch of the notes.

December 26, 2011 at 09:33 PM · Quote Henry Butcher: The interesting thing I find is that particular aspects of theory can be looked at in many different ways and you latch on to the one that jells with you.

I'm finding this to be true more & more. Although I'm not convinced that modal thinking is necessarily the best way to go, but I've travelled that road for so long I find it hard to get off.

I guess when it comes down to it, I'm more of a blues-rock-folk player than a jazz player (although I'm reluctant to admit that to myself) and modes seem to be conducive to those genre's. and even in the past week I've broadened my mode horizons a fair bit.

Maybe someday it will click in to a greater extent for other ways of thinking things out.

another quote by Henry: I focus on antisipating the pitch of the notes.

I would like to be able to do this better, but I've always felt the need to be in control and know where the note is supposed to be before I go to it. I think that's one of the main reasons that modal thinking appeals to me as opposed to say, interval thinking or the more arpeggio based system as per Mike Laird. It's both fascinating and frustrating.

... and then throw in the "no short cuts" statement by Mr. Clark.

are we having fun yet?

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