God bless America

November 5, 2008 at 04:16 AM ·

After eight years of darkness, HOPE!

Replies (100)

November 5, 2008 at 04:24 AM ·

Now v.com members can celebrate! Laurie's t-shirt was right after all : )

November 5, 2008 at 04:29 AM ·

Let's revisit this in a year and see how much hope everyone has.  

I suspect that many who now see him  as the great Messiah will see him as the great O(rifice) 

No one is so spiteful as one who has been let down.

November 5, 2008 at 04:29 AM ·

 McCain is doing a beautiful job with his concession speech. This has been an extraordinary election in many ways. 

November 5, 2008 at 04:35 AM ·

Congratulations to all Obama supporters, and yes, may God bless America.  My wife said it best I think when she said that sometimes God gives us what we want and sometimes what we deserve.  I think in this case America has received what it deserved and now especially we need His blessing.  It is my prayer that over the next four years Mr. Obama will truly lean his heart towards what is best for this country and that he will put the needs of this country first.  I don't think he is the best candidate but thankfully, at least for now, we live in a country where the freedom to influence the course of government still rests in the hands of the people.  I pray that we are still satisfied with our choice four years from now.

November 5, 2008 at 04:38 AM ·

If the McCain giving that concession speech has been the one running for office, it would have gone the other way.  Very classy speech and act on his part, the booing from his audience not so much.



November 5, 2008 at 04:40 AM ·

I think politics has no place on this site.


November 5, 2008 at 04:51 AM ·

I am not bothered by the politics, however I am disturbed by the reference to the 'great Messiah'. Please let me know what you believe in, so I can return the favor.

November 5, 2008 at 04:55 AM ·

Hi Corwin, I understand what you're saying. Some things in life you just can't vote into office, like your own parents or in my case the in-laws. God gave them to me and I have to do my best with the situation and learn how to get along. I'm always trying to find a way to be a little bit more family friendly each day.



November 5, 2008 at 05:11 AM ·

As the site is basically 'all things strings" I believe the predominate amount of  posters on V.com are mature and educated enough to discuss all topics. History has been made tonight and it is a sign of good social awareness to recognize certain topics. I am never disturbed by the discussion of politics, as long as long as it is respectful to the views and beliefs of others. However, mixing oil and water i.e. politics and religious beliefs, usually results in a volatile combonation. The two simply will not, nor will they ever, logically mix. I suspect that a large amount of posters here would not even consider placing irrational and defamatory comments on the site, due to the respectful attitudes that they have exhibited in the past. V.com is one of the most useful and respectable sites I have come across on the Internet. It is a welcome entity in a cyberspace that seems overun with ignorance and prejudices. One could learn much, and I speak as to forum decorum,  by it's very model example, even if they did not play violin. This forum has displayed that it can work through disagreements through intelligent reasonings and courteous replies.


November 5, 2008 at 06:38 AM ·

God bless the US.  Especially now.  I liked what your wife said Thomas.  We're in full agreement.  My heart goes out to John McCain and his family.  You can say whatever you want about George W. Bush, McCain bled for our country, and very few of us have the kind of guts and will this guy has.  I look up to people like him.  I hope Obama can now lead this country in a positive direction.

November 5, 2008 at 07:01 AM ·

The problems that face our country came from a bipartisan screw up.   Putting the blame in Bush is narrow minded.  A lot of things have come together, including Bill Clinton's trade policies that have lost our jobs and a whole lot more people than Bush voted for the war. All I'm saying is that a lot of the people in our government have had a hand in really screwing things up for the rest of us.  Just changing one man isn't going to change the entire system.

It is great that an African American finally got the White House, but I'm not convinced that his spend, spend, spend attitude is going to fix a country with a huge deficit and a major credit prblem.  That being said, I think McCain wouldn't have done any better. 

I voted 3rd party because we need more than just two bad choices in this country.

November 5, 2008 at 08:23 AM ·

Message deleted by PL

November 5, 2008 at 07:22 AM ·

I am also delighted by the outcome of the election but the memory of the Labour landslide victory which bought Tony Blair to power  in England is still fresh in my memory.He turned out to be more right wing than the centre right and became Bush's greatest ally in the war in Iraq.So I will wait with baited breath.

November 5, 2008 at 07:37 AM ·

Oh no, Pauline! I'm sorry that got lost, I would have liked reading it. We are still working out bugs with the new system. If it's any consolation, the same thing happened to me today. My laptop is going senile and occasionally just shuts off with a zap, eliminating everything current. So as I was posting my unsaved blog today...ZAP! Poof! Ergh, I had to rewrite it from scratch.

November 5, 2008 at 08:23 AM ·

Well, since members WANT to mix politics and violins, the key issue for Obama and all Americans is perhaps best stated by one of your greatest generals:

"It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear. " ~General Douglas MacArthur

To effect any real change, the game itself must be changed. Sadly, Obama is on record stating he supports the game, and will go further than Bush Jr in many respects. Also, Obama is compromised by the huge corporate donations received.  

For further reading, please link to [Obama the Expansionist] at
Beyond this, one can read a plethora of views and facts via the site: such as
[Will the next President be any better? ] http://antiwar.com/bock/?articleid=13707

So, the facts speak for themselves, and do not offer much in the way of hope. I suppose one can always hope for the sake of hope.

November 5, 2008 at 08:28 AM ·

Laurie, the same thing happened to me once a few years ago, but there was nothing wrong with my computer.  Now I always write and save my blogs offline, then upload them.  I see that I'll have to start doing that with my comments / responses to blogs and discussions, too.

November 5, 2008 at 08:32 AM ·

As an Australian, we got wall to wall coverage of the event here in Oz.  Yes, the president is arguably the most powerful man on earth. 

Congratulations to Senator Obama. May he govern for all. May all you Americans unite for the good of all. 

Best of luck

November 5, 2008 at 02:34 PM ·

the power of the american democracy at its best! 

November 5, 2008 at 02:40 PM ·

You cannot imagine here in a very small town up north of the Province of Quebec the interest people have for Obama. I believe truly that it is the end of a very dark era!! Congratulation for all the Americans and for a new President who will strike for reconciliation with your citizens and the world.



November 5, 2008 at 05:33 PM ·


Noticing the excitement everywhere around the world following Obama's election, I find myself delighted as well.  To second Gerard's comment above, and following in the words of Mr. Obama himself in his acceptance speech, I hope that this is the beginning of a period of unity for all!

I applaud Mr. McCain for his class in his concession speech and his service to his country as well.  I think this adds also to this historic election.  

If I was American, today, I would be proud!

Cheers and my best to all!


November 5, 2008 at 03:45 PM ·

Regardless of the election results - after seeing how Americans voted on state and federal levels, I have to say for the first time that I am beyond ashamed to be an American and so very ashamed of my country.

With the direction the United States is headed, God can not and will not bless our nation. What needs to be fervently prayed is that God will show mercy to America. We made our choices and now we will be forced to live with the consequences.


November 5, 2008 at 03:46 PM ·

Something bothers me a lot and maybe someone could explain it to me. Why mixing religion with politics? I really do not understand. In a truly liberal system, religion should never interfere with politics. We suffrerd a lot here in the Province of Quebec until the early 70's from the abusive influence of the Catholic church in politics and every sphere of our lives. Religion is a private matter in my opinion.

November 5, 2008 at 03:52 PM ·

marc,  god bless america is more like a saying,  of  wishing america good luck than putting religion into the blessing.   in the violin world, we often hear h is god, which also carries no religious connotation.  (i admit for a few it does:)

November 5, 2008 at 03:58 PM ·

Well, Debra, I'm not quite sure where your post fits on the "win or lose graciously" scale.  I would rank McCain's speech pretty highly on that scale, for example. 

I also think the posters on this site have shown admirable restraint, particularly with regard to some needlessly snide comments.

I, for one, am incredibly proud of how America voted.  Proud and thrilled and hopeful.  

It's a great day to be an American.


November 5, 2008 at 04:08 PM ·

Sean -

I removed that comment because I was referring only one person's comments on this site. I decided, after I posted my comment, that I shouldn't subject the other members to that comment. 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion on America's actions.  

Respectfully - Deborah

November 5, 2008 at 04:17 PM ·

President Obama, we salute you :) 

November 5, 2008 at 04:26 PM ·

Marc -

The United States was founded on the Christian faith; whether people like it or not. Many people will loudly deny it; but it is a fact. Just go back and read the original, unaltered Constitution and it is clearly stated by our founding fathers.

The reason that politics must be combined with faith is because they are inextricably linked. Our faith (or lack of it) lays the foundation for our personal, and national, belief system. We vote according to what we BELIEVE is right. So without expounding on a potentially huge topic - when we vote, we are voting our faith.

No offense, but America's pursuit of a "truly liberal system, is what got America into this mess in the first place.

November 5, 2008 at 04:31 PM ·

when you sneeze, others say what? :)

November 5, 2008 at 04:33 PM ·

Well ,with our Constitution in Canada and our Charter of rights, it is also founded on God believes. But we do not mix the two. Separation of the Churches and Law are clearly defined since 1982. The Constitution is not static. It evolves with time, according to the rights and freedom of individuals.

November 5, 2008 at 04:35 PM ·

After staying up the entire night watching the election results trickle in, I for one cried when Barack Obama stepped up onto the stage to give his victory speech with his family.  For the first time in quite a long while, I was proud of my country in that people are finally starting to address the problems that have for so long been ignored, instead of ignoring them and claiming that everything is "fine and dandy" and that our way of life provides the best possible one in the world.  There are many problems here that need to be addressed, such as our abisamel (how do you spell that??) health care system, and the ever-growing number of people forced to work multiple jobs and long hours just to be able to have basic needs, such as a home, food, and other necessities.  Electing Obama to the presidency is one of the first steps needed to address these problems, and I believe that he will work to the best of his ability for everybody, and not just the top percentages of the population.  But his election is just the beginning and there is a lot still do to - many of us now have hope, but the only way that hope can be realised is to stay active and to help Obama, and Congress, help us.

My commendations to Senator McCain for his speech yesterday.  He showed great integrity.

November 5, 2008 at 04:37 PM ·

This was my first time eligible to vote and I was very proud to cast my vote yesterday.  I was extremely moved by both speeches last night.  No matter whether anyone was disappointed or elated with the results - the country is moving forward and there's no where to go now but up.

November 5, 2008 at 04:44 PM ·

Personally I hope that the content will match the container; I tend to believe that neither candidate is equipped to deal with the problems we face.

Last night around midnight I was surprised to hear a very large group of folks marching up the street beating drums and cheering for their candidate's victory. This is something unheard-of in my experience, and speaks well for their enthusiasm. My fear is that Obama will not be able to deliver the goods, and the backlash will have a very negative effect on all his supporters. This would be a Bad Thing, though it may serve to remove the scales from some dewy eyes regarding the value of politicians' promises.

November 5, 2008 at 04:51 PM ·

Al - I think you may have missed my point in talking about the phrase God Bless America...  :-)

Marc - you made my point about beliefs being linked with politics perfectly. Your personal beliefs are what led you to make the comment you did about agreeing with your countries politics about the sepatration of church and state. 


November 5, 2008 at 04:56 PM ·

I only posted my comment to share my initial reaction about the election.

I had no intention of entering into mindless debates that serve absolutely no purpose here since everyone has already made up their mind - right or wrong. So please don't expect any more responses from me.

If you must - privately email me. Otherwise...

November 5, 2008 at 04:56 PM ·

I was proud to vote in my 6th presidential election.  I am grateful my great-grands left Archduke Franz Ferdinand behind to come to reside in a country where we, the people, are not under obligation to inherited nobility.

(Congratulations, Marina)

November 5, 2008 at 04:56 PM ·


You are simply wrong. The United States was not founded on any faith; its First Amendment makes explicit the separation of church and state. The nation's second president (and first vice-president) was a Unitarian, a faith that traditionally has rejected the divinity of Jesus. The third president, and author of the Declaration of Independence, was a deist with Unitarian sympathies who famously wrote that he expected the United States to become a Unitarian nation. So let's just retire that "America was founded as a Christian nation" right-wing talking point, shall we?

As to the larger issue: Politics is simply the process by which people in a community make collective decisions about the direction of their community. If we declare any part of our lives "off limits" to politics, we rob that part of our lives of the power of collective, community leadership. As we can see from Laurie's latest blog, the arts withers without public support. We cannot afford, as musicians and fans of the arts, to divorce them from political life.

Furthermore, when we disengage from political discussion in any realm, we disconnect those who remain in politics (our elected leaders and their closest supporters) from our lives. Without our watching eyes, that clears the way for damaging mischief, from unjust laws to corruption. We cannot afford that, either.

So let's not ever be afraid to talk about politics when it affects our lives, here or elsewhere. Yes, the discussion on this forum ought to focus most sharply on politics as it affects the arts, but a Presidential election sets the tone for all other politics discussion in the United States for the next four years, arts issues included. We need to talk about it from time to time, and ought to.

My $.02.

November 5, 2008 at 05:04 PM ·

My fiance and I are going shopping for guns this weekend. I can't wait. We need to get them now before they take them away from us.

November 5, 2008 at 05:21 PM ·

well I wonder what all the ultra right wing christian fundamentalists will pray about now...they were all having prayer group meetings praying for their (McCain/Palin) candidate to get elected into office. I guess the big guy upstairs pulled the other set of puppet strings and "chose" the right candidate for the job. Thanks for the prayers, guys!


...and someone tell me how it is that Alaska can still elect someone (Ted Stevens) who is a known crook and will be booted out of the Senate?


Did ya'll hear the spoof phone call to Palin from Sarkozy? Priceless! But ohh sooo much fun and cheap entertainment she providede!!!

November 5, 2008 at 06:03 PM ·

It is always a great day to be an American even in her darkest days.

But I was not a happy camper last night.

“After eight years of darkness, HOPE!”

However, hope is never a method to an end state of any kind. It serves to stir emotion of the weak and cause people to rally without understanding the outcomes in a rational and realistic context.  Deeds not words carry the day.  I have heard many words, some that we as Americans should be concerned with.  The majority who has marched under the fervor of “hope” will run and hide when it is realize they have to do something on their own to get it. Alternatively, you will wake up and realize that the HOPE you bought is your hard-earned money going to other who deserve it more then you.

What makes America great is that you are able to live your life in freedom and pursue your own happiness.  No one, not even a government can do that. You are accountable for what you do and what you fail to do.  

Our founding fathers drafted our Constitution, which is a sound document, to ensure that we, Americans, were in charge of our own destinies and that government would be limited not intrusive.  Moreover, they believed the foundations of America should always be solidly grounded in a higher spiritual and moral order and that man without it would always falter and the country drift. Like it or not these are the facts. In addition to the national vote many states, as was mentioned in other posts, voted on some serious issues being pushed by very liberal ideas and agendas whatever your thougts or the out come I will offer in the words of our founding fathers;

“Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle”.
George Washington

“A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government”.
Thomas Jefferson

“God Bless America” in all we do and have mercy when we fail to do the right things


November 5, 2008 at 05:25 PM ·

Okay - I'll respond to you Robert:

For the moment, I will overlook most of the rude and condescending comments you made! But, with all due respect to another human being - don't ever insinuate again that I'm a coward.  

November 5, 2008 at 06:07 PM ·


Art also withers and then dies when limited and contrained by the community.

Robert:  you also said "If we declare any part of our lives "off limits" to politics, we rob that part of our lives of the power of collective, community leadership." 

I don't need or want a collective making my decsions for me I am not weak or mindless.


November 5, 2008 at 06:09 PM ·

 Al wrote, when you sneeze, others say what? :)


Around here we say, "Cover your mouth!"


November 5, 2008 at 06:09 PM ·

YES! YES!! YES!!!.  I am an American and I have never been more proud to exclaim that than I am now!!!!  Sad to say, I haven't been at all proud for most of the last 8 years.

Yes, John McCain's speech was terrific (if a tad too long!) and, if the John McCain who made that speech had been the one running, the race might have been a lot closer.

So now we have a new President-elect and it behooves the entire country to stand together so that progress can be made not only to benefit the lot of all Americans, but for the sake of the entire planet.

Let me also weigh in on the god issue... on second thought, never mind!

November 5, 2008 at 06:29 PM ·

Thanks for your statement, Robert.

And congratulations to the people in the USA and the people in the world.

November 5, 2008 at 06:45 PM ·

Okay, Debra and Richard, then quit with the collective morality!

Guess what? God is bigger than Christianity. I'm not a Christian and God loves me, and my country. And everyone else, and everyone else's country.

November 5, 2008 at 06:45 PM ·

posted by Richard:  "Robert:  you also said "If we declare any part of our lives "off limits" to politics, we rob that part of our lives of the power of collective, community leadership." 

I don't need or want a collective making my decsions for me I am not weak or mindless."

I think you are missing Robert's point.  The power of collective, community leadership is not that a "collective" is making decisions for you and in no way implies that any one person is weak or mindless.  The point of a collective community leadership is that each person can contribute their own ideas and opinions in discussion, with a result that is of the most beneficial to all and represents that the values and wishes of the community as a whole - this can take place on many different levels - personal within a family, within a small community (whether a town, or ethnic community), a certain interest group, such as the arts, or in the area most commonly associated with the term "politics" on a national and governmental level.  Robert's quote  "If we declare any part of our lives "off limits" to politics, we rob that part of our lives of the power of collective, community leadership."  is making the point that unless we are active in politics, in other words, in contributing our own ideas and opinions we lose our voice and our chance to have results that benefit us, because that leaves the entire decision-making process in the hands of a few - it is only by leaving out politics in certain parts of our lives that we lose the chance to make the decisions for ourselves.  that is the power of a collective, community leadership - it guarentees that decisions that are made are what will help you as an individual and that you have a say in those decisions. 


November 5, 2008 at 06:44 PM ·

Thank you, Elizabeth. 

November 5, 2008 at 08:45 PM ·

A country went to the polls in greater numbers than perhaps at any time in its history, therefore re-inforcing in a bold gesture the greatness of democracy and the importance of the democratic process.  It elected as its president someone who not only symbolizes the fall of many barriers himself, but also believes in the betterment of all and for all regardless of superficial divisions - unity was at the centre of his message.  His rival made a concession speech that showed class, dignity and respect for his competitor, and his country.  I fail to see how one could not be proud of such a moment...

November 5, 2008 at 07:07 PM ·

 Even as an Obama supporter, I strongly believe that is is rather unseemly for the owner of the site to promote political views. There are political forums for that.


November 5, 2008 at 07:08 PM ·

I'm sorry that you feel that way Laurie, about God and His views towards the world.  Obviously you are not alone in those sentiments and I understand why people hold to them as I used to as well.   I am thankful that I no longer do. 

November 5, 2008 at 07:10 PM ·

Well, I think we as a nation need to watch our representatives much more closely than we do now. I think it is too easy to make campaign promises knowing that once the election is over most people really don't care enough to be involved. I think politicians count on this factor heavily.

As far as this election: time will tell us how wise or foolish we have truly been.

Be strong!

November 5, 2008 at 07:12 PM ·

Another thing to be thrilled about---we had the highest voter turnout in a century---67% of eligible voters went to the polls, which is vastly beyond the 50%-55% of the last 25 years. We are truly a stronger democracy today than we've been in 2 generations.

President-Elect Obama has a very tough job ahead of him, and the next few years won't be easy for any of us. Hope is essential right now.

And no more Bush! Yippee!!!

November 5, 2008 at 07:31 PM ·

Let us rejoice and be happy for our new president  and our country :

  • Bush will soon be gone as 8 horrible years in our history  !

November 5, 2008 at 07:55 PM ·

I watched the election the whole night - great moments! Particularly McCain's concession speech, what a dignity he has!


It's such a great signal to stop playing silly transatlantic games for nothing, it's simply amazing how thrilled people were after the election in the US, in South-America, in Africa, in Europe. I mean, can you remember any US-election with such an impact of hope and will in so many regions of the world? Despite what has been said about "hope" above, I venture to say that hope is the basis facing that agenda we all have to face (environment, financial markets etc.).

Obama's presidentship will be much more demanding for other countries, and I really hope that some parts of the world relearn to work together. I'm looking forward to the end of January, maybe it's really the pickup for better times!

November 5, 2008 at 07:46 PM ·

It was certainly the most significant election of my lifetime, worthy of conversation with friends, colleagues, and yes, violin lovers. If you don't want to talk about politics, there are about 10,000 other threads on this site that you can choose to read, contribute to, etc.!

Thomas, congrats on having that exclusive approval from God: He just loves you and your group and approves of your moral interpretations. You have proof, and He's on your side. Dangerous stuff, my friend.


November 5, 2008 at 08:01 PM ·

Beautifully said Christian. I respect a great many people on this forum and I believe it is our perogative to talk politics here just like we would with any of our "real world" friends. But oh Laurie what have you done putting God in the title of the thread? I respect everyone's opinions but I didn't sign up to a discussion about God and the NRA (who strangely seem to go hand in hand in this country).  I'm more interested in what kind of instruments people are hiding in their closets than what kind of guns they're keeping under their pillows.  I hear that guns don't make very pretty music.

November 5, 2008 at 08:08 PM ·

Thank you, Laurie and Robert and all the others who commented. Thank you too to all the Americans who went to the polls and voted for change: the rest of the world is delighted that you did. Apart from the incredible sight of a black American becoming prsident for the first time, I was refreshed to see that so many people and so many young people especially voted for the candidate whose campaign was run on issues, not smears and fears. I am hopeful that many of the changes that have been wrought by the Bush-Cheney administration can be undone under the leadership of a man who is a constitutional scholar and supporter of human rights. Nothing can happen overnight and it will take a great deal of effort by everyone to pull America and the world out of its current crises.

I am more than happy to hear a bit of discussion on the political level from our violinist colleagues, but I am taken aback by the number of  rightist, libertarian and christianist dogma streams...........almost makes me ashamed to be a violinist!


November 5, 2008 at 08:12 PM ·



Perhaps it would help to define each “collective”.


It is so much safer to allow our consciences to be seared, to refuse to acknowledge right and wrong or claim it doesn’t exist in the name of evolution or progress.  To wrap ourselves in a cloak of liberalism, and then attempt to convince ourselves that because everyone’s doing – it must be right. The “collective” crowd chants: Tolerance in all things – let nothing be right and nothing be wrong. I want the right to live in whatever manner I choose…but I don’t want to experience the consequences of my actions.


You accuse me of promoting collective morality -


If my being a conservative, born-again Christian who believes in qualified leaders, government restraint, having the pride in my ability to support myself without government assistance…if because I believe that woman “do have a choice” to control their bodies – not by having abortions, but by refusing to live a promiscuous lifestyle, that STD’s / HIV can eventually be eradicated by people choosing to live abstinent until marriage, that it is not an individual’s choice to decide to kill themselves, and that marriage is defined as one woman and one man …if I take the chance of losing a friend or angering a colleague by standing up against the flow… if I make the choice to stand up to the “collective” and say this is wrong!  Then I am proud to be counted among those who believe the same.  



Second response to your comment to Thomas about God:


Laurie – God wrote the Book – literally on how we (as people) are to live our lives. God is not agreeing with our views on life or morality because He defined what it needs to be.  It is the human race whose has chosen to walk away from Him. 


And you’re right it is dangerous stuff!  Those of us who have accepted His gift of salvation – that anyone can receive – have discovered the peace and contentment that the world is so desperately searching for.  The reason that people rebel against this is because the one requirement God has is that we relinquish control of our lives to His direction, and that terrifies many people. So in short, you’re not able, yet, to even comprehend what Thomas is talking about…


November 5, 2008 at 08:25 PM ·

One of the rights of Americans is to talk about whatever they want on the media they own. Freedom of the press belongs to those who own the press. Laurie's right to bring politics into this forum is absolute. Laurie also has the right to censor anything she wants to censor. She owns this website and it is hers to do with as she pleases. That is a right worth fighting for and its even a right worth dying for.

We, in turn, have the right to not call the violinist.com url. We came here voluntarily and we can leave here at will.

These discussion threads are pretty well labelled. If anyone doesn't want to participate in a discussion then don't. 

November 5, 2008 at 08:47 PM ·


Thanks again for speaking out clearly. I was thinking Laurie ,would really be good at the U.N. with all the experiences here at v.com. Both Midori and Kyung Wha carry U.N. passports for all the work they do there. It helps them to travel more freely around the world. 


November 5, 2008 at 08:49 PM ·

I don't think that God wrote the book on how to live your life. . Man wrote the book in accordance to what he interpreted as a convenient way to look at morality. That is not to say that it is a bad way to live...it's just not the only one.

November 5, 2008 at 08:50 PM ·

...ohh, and I think that god requires you to tithe also....

November 5, 2008 at 08:52 PM ·

Looking at the traffic numbers, it seems that many site readers do enjoy the political threads, along with other "Life in general" threads. Hey, doing the same thing all day can get pretty boring, even stressful and anxious. The readers seem to be voting with their clicks that they enjoy the occasional change of pace. Heck, I'm enjoying reading the rants.

They key is, of course, the mix. But as Laurie mentioned, there remain thousands of other pages on the site devoted to our core content. And that's never going to change.

So... enjoy this moment. Enjoy this thread. And I will enjoy reading how a certain commentator  interprets this post as a personal insult to her. :-)

November 5, 2008 at 09:08 PM ·

Oh boy, I love discussions that try to promote unity but end up making everyone more separated because no one believes the same thing. How can I not say something?


Ok, first things first. Debra... God didn't write 'the book' which I assume you are referring to the Bible. Man wrote the Bible. Maybe it was inspired by God, maybe not. I believe there was definite inspiration (I'm a Christian, but I believe it's dangerous to hold everything the Bible says as absolute truth). You should know, however, that it was ultimately man who wrote it (save for the 10 commandments if you believe every word in the Bible). Since it was written by man, this opens up a lot of room for corruption. Added to that is of course the Council of Nicea... For this reason, it's absurd to think that the world should operate in the way this book says to. You can be against abortion, promiscuity, suicide, and homosexual marriage, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world has to be. I don't believe that people who make choices that go against my personal beliefs are WRONG, but I wouldn't choose the same things for MY life. 

Also, get off your high horse. The reason no one seems to like Christians is because they're (and I say they because at times even I don't like being associated with the perception most people have about Christians) always acting like they're above everyone else. It's incredibly demeaning that you insinuated that Laurie wouldn't be able to understand what you and Thomas are saying... that she's somehow not capable of having a belief system because it's not YOUR belief system. If you follow the teachings of Christ, which is the basis for Christianity, it's not to insinuate that others are below you for not following your belief, but to love them anyways, as equals.  


As far as everyone against promoting political beliefs... This is first and foremost a forum. It may be violin-based discussion, but does that mean we can't branch out to talk about major events from time to time? If you don't wish to engage in political discussions, then don't engage! No one's forcing you to read the responses and certainly no one is forcing you to respond!



November 5, 2008 at 09:15 PM ·

Christian - well said.

I know that the obstacles are huge and the journey will be a long one, but I believe that today is the beginning of a beautiful new future.

November 5, 2008 at 09:30 PM ·

You know Robert I'm glad you're having so much fun reading all the posts. But I don't understand where the personal animosity you have for me is coming from. My post to you about not insinuating I was a coward was strong, as I had intended, because the comment was un-called for.  But I never attacked you personally.

I have expressed my views honestly, and other than to respond to a specific post, I have attempted to generalize as much as possible. This website is good for violinists, but it's not worth my remaining a member just so I can revel in the attacks you seem to think are necessary.

You win.

I'm sure you will have no issue in deleting my membership information, and I shall spare many of your readers the pain or pleasure of my conservative viewpoints.

Since this will be my last post - I'll just say thanks to the many people who have enlightened many aspects of music for me and who share, with me, such a strong passion for music.

Good luck to you!

November 5, 2008 at 09:52 PM ·

Hi Debra,

I just wanted to say don't leave. I think everyone appreciates you being here and wants to hear what you have to say. Robert was correct in his comments and wasn't personally attacking you or anyone else here. I felt he was saying thanks for all the contributions everyone's making.


November 5, 2008 at 10:00 PM ·

I appreciate the sentiment Craig. 

But, I'm not leaving because I feel unappreciated, I'm leaving because I appreciate a good, strong, and fair debate and you can't get that on this website. Here, many of the liberal types seem to delight in their attempts to "skewer" the conservatives just for fun.

I just don't want to be associated with people, or a website, like that. It's hurtful, counter-productive and serves no valuable purpose. The longer I engage in these exchanges the more I'm tempted to begin flinging out critical and hurtful comments of my own. 

So, I'm doing the best thing I can by removing myself from the situation before it gets out of control.  

November 5, 2008 at 10:15 PM ·

 "With the direction the United States is headed, God can not and will not bless our nation. What needs to be fervently prayed is that God will show mercy to America."

It is the height of arrogance to presume to know who may or may not be blessed by  a creator , or which political entities said creator will show mercy to. Debra, neither you nor anyone else knows the mind of God. Neither you nor anyone else can have access to such knowledge. 


And Debra, there is only one post here that uses a biggie-size yelling-and-screaming-type font:

Yours. It just makes you seem all the more as if you want to shove your religion down everyone's throats.


I am an atheist, and damn proud of the fact. You have not cornered the market on morality or ethics.



November 6, 2008 at 01:16 AM ·

debra,  you don't have to associate with anyone!   we are all little bytes on the info highway: )

i enjoy reading your blogs very much, particular that one where you found your inspiration in the coffee shop from a suzuki kid.  really neat writing. 

maybe starting tomorrow we will go back to the violin cave where violin is first, country second, and parties 3rd and god a distant 4th.... :) 

people  don't  regard people here more or less because of their politics.    so, chill!:)

November 5, 2008 at 10:34 PM ·

I am very glad that the US did not elect another religious fanantics to the White House who governs not by reasons but by his/her guts. If God is our maker, he/she did a terrible job because we are so imperfect. God did not write the bible, people did. There were many versions of it and there were even more different interpretations of it. Each interpreter considered him/herself as the one and only true prophet and all the rest were heresy and shall be burned in stakes. Through out the history, there were countless of "prophets" and their followers try to monopolize the Christian faith and to justify the horrible deeds they commited under God's name. They care more about the "memberships" than the "deeds" and therefore it was alright for them to slaughter/enslave other people of different faith/race. Why the founders of this great nation emphasis on the separation of church and state? It is because they were educated enough to know how politicians can easily manipulate general population through religious means. For those who firmly believe that one should read the bible literally and such, please do not try to better/prolong your life by taking advantage of the modern medicine and delay your journey to your maker. Amen...

November 6, 2008 at 01:16 AM ·

Elizabeth:  I do get the point.  And it is simple, the group think you refer too is fine as long as it does not infringe on my unalienable and constitutional rights or me on yours as I live my life; you surely remember these words right

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

So again, I can choose to disregard “the power of collective, community leadership”.

Laurie: Your faith is not my concern.  I am glad you have one many do not. Whatever faith you choose to be is fine. I am sure God does love you but my point is, whether you like it or not, this country was founded on religious principles.  Moreover, that individually and as a country without a faith in a higher order we will parish, history has proven that.  I am not riding a big white horse steeped in collective morality but unbelievably there are truths and today many so called progressive liberals attempt to force their views, under the pretense of “tolerance” on others. 

As for separation of church and state, what our founding fathers meant precisely was that Gov. cannot and will not dictate a single state sponsored religion or deny these unalienable rights simply based on their faith.  However, in my opinion, it is misused, as is the morality button by politicians, liberals etc… all the time as they cry wolf in an attempt to justify some feel good policy.

Look, I do not know you and you really do not know me.  So I will assume that if you are an American posting in this forum that we have a commonality in our, history, nationality, that we hold our consitutional principles worthy of defense and if necessary to die for, and we love our country when it is right or wrong.  So until proven differently I do not take offese to any posts I see it as another freedom we enjoy.

November 5, 2008 at 10:43 PM ·

Robert - I am asking again that you delete my profile as I requested.

Scott - I am sorry to hear you are an atheist, but it's a place to start.  I am not ashamed of what I wrote and the font I used is the default on this website. I haven't changed it.

You can know precisely who and what God is - and His plan for us. Just open the Bible and read with an open mind and He'll show you. I guarantee it.

When I brought the religious points up I was directly responding to a post that had already been made.  I am sorry if you felt force-fed but I didn't cause that to happen to you.

While I'm at it, I was also recently accused of being on my "high horse" and thinking I was better than everyone else. It must seem like that, but to know the Lord on a personal level is not something you can experience until you ask Him. Christians are not better people or perfect - we're just forgiven. Anyone can be forgiven, they just need to ask.


November 5, 2008 at 11:08 PM ·


That's great you brought up the word forgive. It's the easiest thing in the world to forgive and forget. I like this site not only for it's content but  I also find it family friendly, something which you're going to find difficult somewhere else. Laurie and Robert are the owners of this site but they are also parents and teachers. You can trust that.


November 5, 2008 at 11:45 PM ·

Thanks Laurie for the congratulations.  Though there is a nugget of truth to what you replied to me there is a lot you misunderstand about Christianity.  I don't blame you, you said that you are not a Christian and I am sure that you judge Christianity by its imperfect followers rather than its Perfect Namesake.  It is shameful to me how we Christians act most of the time, not because it looks bad on ourselves but really because it gives non-believers an excuse to continue in their non-belief.

Laurie, Robert, and anyone else....I apologize to you for giving Christianity a bad name.  I have failed you and my Savior.  I hope that one day, in time, you may be given the same grace that I have been given.  Until then, I have tried to express my views and that is all I can do.  In case it is misinterpreted, please no that there is no sarcasm in this responce whatsoever.  I am sincere and I hope it is taken that way.

November 5, 2008 at 11:45 PM ·

Debra , can you not forgive some of the comments made on this thread, after all God is deemed all forgiving. It seems a shame that a thread that has nothing to do about violin should be the catalyst to you wishing to abandon the site.The world was not built in a day, and neither will America recover in a day regardless of who is in power but just leaving because you cant take the flack seems somehow a little defeatist.

November 5, 2008 at 11:58 PM ·

Janet - I can take any flak handed out and I hold nothing against anyone on this site - and I mean that. That's not why I wanted to be removed.

Personally, I am exceptionally competitive and can't resist a fight or debate in many areas of my life. It's one of my worst faults. I am more concerned about my own attitude when I get involved in these discussions. Even when I don't type what I'm thinking - I'm still thinking it and that's just as wrong in my mind as saying it out loud.

I suppose leaving may seem like an act of cowardice, but I firmly believe that if something makes me stumble I need to distance myself from it if at all possible. Despite what it may seem, we Christians are still a work in progress. I really want my thoughts to consistently line up with my words but it may be easier to do that if I step back for a while.

November 6, 2008 at 12:46 AM ·

Thank you to Robert, Laurie, Elizabeth, and others...


Debra, your post about abstinence/HIV/abortion perplexed me.  It was, quite frankly, narrow minded and ill-informed.  Your generalizations stated that only promiscuous women have abortions, only intercourse yields HIV/AIDS, and that it is okay for the government to control what a woman can and cannot do with her body.  Additionally, what happens if you have a gay son or daughter?  Would you want to deny your child their partnership and rights?  Yes, I am ecstatic that Obama was elected...change was needed, and frankly, any candidate is better than Bush.  However, our country still has aways to go--Proposition 8 was passed in California, effectively stated that all Californians are not equal.  (cue:  everyone should search youtube for Perlman's anti-Prop 8 ad...it's quite moving).  

The wonderful thing about living in America is that we can speak out and CHANGE our government if we aren't happy with it;  we can speak out against our leaders;  and this country tolerates all faiths, beliefs, races, lifestyle choices, etc.  Today, I am very proud to be American, and I do not want any form of government taking rights away from me or basing their decisions off of "faith".  Robert's post was excellent, and in no way rude - thank you, L & R. 

November 6, 2008 at 12:49 AM ·

 "Scott - I am sorry to hear you are an atheist..."


Your comments couldn't be any more offensive. 


November 6, 2008 at 01:09 AM ·

I agree, why would you attack someone like that Debra? Politics on here are enough, please don't bring religion into it. I live in like the most religious state ever... It gets old. And I can't name a teacher at my school who isn't mormon, and they bring it up so much in class I would prefer to not hear about religion here.

No matter what Scott chooses his beliefs are, that's his choice and you have no right at all to question it. Because of what you said I would imagine this discussion will take a complete turn...

I am not religious, and would prefer you didn't talk about it. I'm not an atheist, nor agnostic, but  maybe it offends me just like someone talking about God in a non-respectful way would you.  So please just don't go there.

November 6, 2008 at 01:22 AM ·

Congratulations to you american people!  Obama is great and John Mccain the more resistent old man that I've ever seen!  I wish you much joy and succes to your country!  In Canada, Harper is a little seen as Bush was...  I hope he will follow Obama's example!


November 6, 2008 at 01:27 AM ·

This is not going to end nicely.

Everyone please just STOP talking about religion and do it in personal messages instead.  I'm guessing none of the other readers want to watch a few people fight over this stuff.

We're all entitled to our beliefs, and given the turmoil contradicting them en mass causes, let us learn to respect everyone's views. 

Yes we can.



November 6, 2008 at 01:42 AM ·

Please, Deborah, don't leave.  Mr. Niles didn't mean any personal offense, I'm sure, but I think he got amused later when you made a big deal about what he said.  I have enjoyed your blogs too-and I think you are a wonderful addition to our community.  Maybe you've already left-but I don't want you to go.

On my own note, however (haha no pun intended, okay that was bad), I am so happy that Obama was elected president.  It has gone to show that our country can overcome racial barriers, and they can act on their own accord, and not on peer pressure.  I am very proud to be an American tonight.

Just to let you know, I am an atheist as well, but I know that expressions using the term "God" are passed around freely.  I believe when we say "God Bless So-and So (In this case, America), we are just wishing American godspeed and we are telling America that we believe in her and we love her as a country,  Just my $0.02 as well.

November 6, 2008 at 01:41 AM ·

I take it that Debra didn't like my pointing out that she was wrong in asserting that the United States was founded on the Christian faith. (There's more Enlightenment thought behind the U.S. than anything else.) But that's not a personal attack. It is correcting a false assertion. What the heck abortion and HIV have to do with any of this, I don't know. 

Debra, I shall keep Matthew 5:11-12 in mind as you rail against me for correcting your error, and against this site for not submitting to your view of Christianity.

FWIW, I find Micah 6:8 and Matthew 6:5-6 instructive, as well. Christianity, to me, should be a humble, loving and nurturing faith. Not an angry, vengeful and proud one. I guess that's why I found my way to the Unitarian Universalist Church.

Anyway, for those still hanging around the thread who would like to see a nod toward more violin-related content, I offer this question, sure to enflame a whole new round of flame war:

- Would Jesus use a shoulder rest? Or, if you prefer a more multicultural perspective, what do you think that various religious leaders (Mohammed, Buddha, etc.) would have to say about the use of a shoulder rest? (Actually, I think that folks could come up with some fun, creative thoughts on this.)

I jest, but do not mock. Faith should provide joy and social engagement. So should the violin.

November 6, 2008 at 01:50 AM ·


Were you not proud to be an American always?  I on occasion hear one proclaim that they are atheist why are you an atheist if I can ask?

November 6, 2008 at 01:45 AM ·


You are wrong our country was founded on the principles of faith and religion.

November 6, 2008 at 01:49 AM ·

Is that your opinion or a fact?

November 6, 2008 at 01:51 AM ·


It is a fact read our history and our founding fathers writings

November 6, 2008 at 01:52 AM ·

Richard, all I can say is it was the way I was brought up.

I don't want people to take offense to this, because I am still very very young and I don't understand all this religion stuff as clearly as you more enlightened people do.

I was brought up without any religion whatsoever.  We never went to church, but our family still has wonderful and great moral values.  We have many friends, who are african-american, asian, hispanic, philippino, white, you name it, and we are fine with everyone.  Because I was never taught to put big emphasis into religion, I first started learning about science.  Thus, over the years, I have become an atheist.  Again-I don't claim to know everything about what I am saying, as I still have a lot to learn.  I respect anyone of any race who is a part of any religion whatsoever.  What I do not appreciate is when someone would press their religion upon me (I am not speaking about Debra). 

However, I can say that I have always been proud to be an American, maybe not as much in these past 4 years, with all of these horrible goings-on with our country, but now it is back and stronger than ever.  I love this country with all my heart, and the diverse culture within the US makes me love it even more. 

I will not say that I am sorry that I am atheist-I'm not, and like Mr. Cole, I am damn proud of the fact.  However, I think we must respect everyone else who is different, no matter what they believe in.

November 6, 2008 at 01:58 AM ·

Well thats fine and I will not judge you, it is your choice. I would say you might want to look at the other schools of thought you may find somethig there.

November 6, 2008 at 01:59 AM ·

Yes, I am open minded.  I may find a religion later-who knows?  However, it is not on my mind right now to find other religions.

Right now I have to focus on the intonation in the second and third movements of the Bruch Violin Concerto, and I have to also work on my Schoenberg Phantasy and my Saint Saens Concerto first movement for a performance at the Strathmore Mansion hall later this month.

November 6, 2008 at 02:06 AM ·


LOL, that's really good about asking the leaders if they would use a shoulder rest! I also like your use of the word enlightenment which I think goes all the way back to Socrates. After living in Korea and Japan for so long I would like to hear what Confucius has to say about the shoulder rest  too!


November 6, 2008 at 02:00 AM ·

"Deism is the belief that a supreme God exists and created the physical universe, and that religious truths can be arrived at by the application of reason alone, without dependence on revelation.Deists typically reject most supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God has a plan for the universe, which he does not alter by intervening in the affairs of human life nor by suspending the natural laws of the universe. "

Robert is correct,most of the signers of The Declaration of Independence were Deists.

November 6, 2008 at 02:20 AM ·


John Adams has been at times labeled a “deist” that is right but he had a deep rooted faith in God and did believe in divine intervention.  And the constitution he wrote while a member of the Massachusetts legislature was used as the base to create ours current U.S. Constitution.

"I pray Heaven to bestow the best of blessings on this house and all that shall hereafter inhabit it. May none but honest and wise men ever rule under this roof."

John Adams

November 6, 2008 at 02:21 AM ·


I see you are from Pennsylvania why did you guy vote Murtha back in ?

November 6, 2008 at 02:46 AM ·


I'll take you up on your "did Jesus use a shoulder rest?" question. No he healed the lame and caused them to cast away their crutches.


November 6, 2008 at 03:13 AM ·

Buffalo Bill Cody was my mother's father,who taught her to play violin. [Leavenworth]

I learned from mom.......

Buffalo Bill Cody was a Deist-----Just Kidding  !!!


November 6, 2008 at 03:06 AM ·

I believe that Jesus did use a shoulder rest. He was a pretty tall and thin looking guy-kind of like Paganini-but maybe better kept?


However, I can't imagine Buddha using a shoulder rest.  Not to sound mean, but, when you look at the Chinese Buddha, isn't it built in?

From the way he smiles, I would love to see Buddha play the third movement of the Bruch.

However, I think that the term Buddha, for this, is too wide.  There was the chinese Buddha, the Indian Buddha, and several others.  The real question should be: did Siddhartha Gautama play with a shoulder rest?  That's a bit harder to answer.

November 6, 2008 at 03:13 AM ·

The hope IS here! I walked into the office this morning and everyone here was excited and talked about the Obama victory, no, it's the victory for all of us!

November 6, 2008 at 04:30 AM ·

 I personally do not see ANY hope in Robin Hood. And in this case a scandinavian version of one! Has anyone been to Western Europe lately? I guess that is what America voted for? Who knows, perhaps another vagabond will come along and knock some Common Sense into people who have obviously lost the wisdom of what once made this country great!

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