Live Earth

July 7, 2007 at 07:54 PM ·

Replies (66)

July 8, 2007 at 04:32 PM · I added the video. Nice performance!

July 8, 2007 at 04:43 PM · Thanks so much for sharing that, Laurie. I didn't go (being in Canada) but have been catching highlights from youtube. I absolutely love The Police and had really wanted to see them when they did a show in Vancouver but tickets were into the several hundreds of dollars :(

Awesome band!

July 8, 2007 at 04:55 PM · The performance was pretty good, until it was ruined. :(

July 8, 2007 at 06:03 PM · Here's a solo version of same song from an 80s movie to benefit Amnesty International. I saw it in a theater when it was new and was just bowled over by this performance.

More talent in this clip than mere humans can imagine. I see it 20 years later and realize it's still a favorite :) Leo Fender reportedly believed he was creating a revolutionary instrument for angels on the Earth. Just might be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OyfpS6pEcQ

July 8, 2007 at 06:39 PM · How was it ruined?

Thanks, Jim! Wow, that's a really cool version. I'm struck by how relevant this song is today, and for this cause.

July 8, 2007 at 07:05 PM · Relevance? I wonder how much carbon emissions were created powering that huge wall of speakers and screens behind the performers.

I wonder how much fossil fuel was consumed flying the performers in their private / chartered jets to their various gigs, along with the dozens semi loads of equipment and buses full of roadies.

They look like a bunch of self - indulgent hypocrites to me. "Look at me - I care".

I think if they really cared, they'd walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

This isn't ostensibly a forum for political discussion, but it's pretty hard to let this go by without challenging the thinking behind it.

July 8, 2007 at 07:20 PM · Actually, they did quite a bit to reduce the carbon footprint of this concert as opposed to others. They are trying to get out a message that many people are refusing to listen to. But congrats on repeating the Rush Limbaugh talking points.

Yes, I voted for Al Gore; I'm not sure I could live with myself if I hadn't. He has proven to be a statesman worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize, in my estimation.

History will be very, very hard on the United States for keeping to the incredibly corrupt path it continues to slog down, under its current "leadership."

July 8, 2007 at 07:49 PM · Michael does have a point, Laurie, it's not *only* Rush Limbaugh nonsense. That said, in this case I suppose it IS better to get the message out like this (even if most of them are just doing it for "street cred" as it were) than to not get it out at all.

String Quartets for Peace, anyone? ;-)

July 8, 2007 at 11:57 PM ·

July 8, 2007 at 09:10 PM · Laurie, You're making a lot of assumptions, which are very revealing of your thought processes and prejudices. My opinion has nothing to do with Mr. Limbaugh, as per your unwarranted assumption. I don't listen to the radio at work; I'm too busy helping to produce fine instruments for string players.

My opinion comes from years of involvement in the "peace movement" of the sixties, after getting out of the miitary, plus some more years spent in and around the entertainment industry. I've been shot at over civil rights, (and shot back), gassed by cops, spit on as a Veteran, etc. I spent a lot of time on the inside of political movements and hopefully gained a little insight as to how things work.

My original training was in engineering and physics, and I fail to see what good these people possibly did with their huge expenditure of resources. Even if they did make "an effort" to reduce carbon emissions for this one concert, they still expended a huge amount, and what about their lifestyles the rest of the year? In general, self indulgent and wasteful to an extreme, with rare exceptions.

I can think of lots of more reasonable and effective ways to get the message out, if that's their goal. What they're doing here is preaching to the choir and preening themselves, not winning hearts and minds.

Regardless of what you believe about carbon emissions, this effort was clearly a massively wasteful exercise in self indulgence and narcissism, IMO. It would be only fair to at least try to consider these points before you reject them out of hand.

That's really all I have to say on the subject. The issue of carbon emissions and global warming is an entirely separate (and interesting) discussion, but I think not appropriate to a violin forum.

(By the way, my personal political viewpoint is strongly libertarian and non-statist. A Jeffersonian Taoist, as it were, certainly not a talk-radio conservative...)

July 8, 2007 at 11:58 PM · When I see people accusing other people of being self-indulgent it usually means they have problems of their own. How many lives did you save today? That's easy to do, you know. If you say more than zero, I'll re-think. I didn't either, but I'm not accusing anyone of self-indulgence.

July 8, 2007 at 10:33 PM · Hey, anyone listen to Rush Limbaugh besides me? I listen to him everyday on the way home from work. But then I listen to Sean Hannity and some of the other "right wing" talk shows too. It always strikes me as funny how liberals can have all the talking points they want and are free to use them en masse all the time but as soon as a conservative speaks his or her mind they are labeled as Rush Limbaugh fanatics or something. I started thinking about the facts and fallacies of global warming a long time before I started listening to Rush Limbaugh. I guess Al Gore or Leonardo DiCaprio fanatics are okay but anyone with a differnt opinion should be thought of as not having a brain and incapable of thinking for themselves. Anyway, I have to run. I need to go increase my "carbon footprint."

July 8, 2007 at 11:12 PM · It is disappointing that a musical event, and musicians in general, are foolishly exploited for an event like this. They should stick to music, not science. The actual science, as opposed to the junk science or the political science, refutes the claims of anthropogenic global warming. The normal fluctuations we are witnessing in global temperature are driven by changes in solar activity, not by human activity.

Critical thinking and reading is what is needed these days; not another politically driven concert.

July 8, 2007 at 11:59 PM ·

July 8, 2007 at 11:19 PM · Do consider disengaging from bad sources of information like Limbaugh.

I'm not saying anyone is incapable of thinking. But if you choose to stay uninformed, and base your opinions on bad information, this does not excuse you from the fact that you are WRONG.

Yes, the FACT that you are WRONG. It's not a matter of opinion. The U.S. went to war for stated reasons that were completely made up. As in, wrong. That is a fact. And everyone who supported that is culpable. Somehow, some people continue to listen to the same voices that brought about that decision.

But I suppose some people will stay forever wedded to their bad decisions, no matter what the consequences, no matter how obviously horrific the results become, rather than take responsibility.

July 8, 2007 at 11:50 PM · I just thought the rapping was horrible.

July 9, 2007 at 07:07 AM · Laurie, here's Tom Hanks doing Johnny Rotten. -->here

July 9, 2007 at 08:22 AM · A stupid stupid stupid concert!

A lot of people wasted a lot of oil to get there.

So where is The environmental attention of these persons?

They are just a bunch of full of money who belive to make us fool!!

I would like to say to these singers and actors: go to remove trash from shore go to protest against the bad environmental politics of Bush, China, Italy, Russia etc...

July 9, 2007 at 08:48 AM · I'm with you. Let's stop performers and make them pick up trash instead. Especially those big fat Italian tenors. Lord I can't stand that stuff.

July 9, 2007 at 08:48 AM · Jim, thanks for posting links to other versions of that song. The very first one, from the 80s, was beautiful. It moved me to tears. I really didn't like the other two versions at all.

July 9, 2007 at 09:22 AM · I was at the Hamburg concert - quite disappointing in a way. I'd been at the Genesis Reunion concert two weeks ago, compared with it the atmosphere in Hamburg was a little bit frigid at the beginning. Maybe the artists weren't mine (Snoop Dogg, Shakira, lots of German bands (there's no rock in german language), at least at the end Cat Stevens. But it was worth it, Al Gore is very popular here, much more popular than any local enviromental activist.

BUT:

There was a broadcasting on the screen of the probably coolest gig of Live Earth: check out this. British scientists of the British Antarctic Survey at the Antarctis, who formed an Indie-band. During the winter, they can't leave, so they made up a band. They played in front of 17 spectators and some penguins, and were broadcasted to the other concerts.

(And their song was the best).

July 9, 2007 at 08:37 PM · Mischa, wow, I'd love to see Cat Stevens. He was one of my childhood heros.

Thanks, Pauline, glad you liked it. Tne movie is called "The Secret Policeman's Other Ball." It was from a series of Amnesty International benefits. I think Eric Idle or Monty Python was involved. It might show up at a local movie house sometime, or you could request it. This song to me is an almost perfect blend of European and Southern roots music. The main riff during the verse in it, the same as the intro in Laurie's link, is a notorious finger twister on guitar, sort of like fingered octaves. It's like he's playing fingered octaves while singing something else.

July 9, 2007 at 06:49 PM · I love that first recording of "Message In The Bottle" because it gives me hope that it's possible to improve with age!

As for the seventh continent, I have a friend who wrote a blog about his life as a dishwasher at McMurdo research station in Antarctica. Pretty interesting!

July 9, 2007 at 09:20 PM · "I love that first recording of "Message In The Bottle" because it gives me hope that it's possible to improve with age!"

I don't know. Maybe you're into production...:) My favorite probably is the last link, "first live performance" of it. It reminds me of good bar bands during the punk era. The main difference as always being the super songwriting. I love the way he mush-mouths the chorus in that too. That's rock and roll!

And...the copyright biotches have taken yours down already :P

July 9, 2007 at 10:06 PM · Fat italian tenors cannot bend to pick up the crap from the shores so they are useless for the purpose!!

For the journals which italian tenor sang at the live earth?

July 9, 2007 at 10:02 PM · That stinks! I will leave it up, just so we can all say, that stinks!

July 9, 2007 at 10:04 PM · See if this works, guys. I changed the link. By the way, I didn't realize that guitarist is John Mayer, LOL!

July 9, 2007 at 10:28 PM · I thought the discussion was about global warming but apparently it has gone back to Iraq again. I have plenty of sources of information besides Rush Limbaugh. I have CNN, I have the New York Times, I have my local paper the Washington Post. I watch the Sunday afternoon political talk shows. I am not hurting for what liberals would call the "informed" point of view. When I compare their information however to the information I get from the conservative points of view that I listen to and watch as well, I actually find myself thinking that the liberal, "informed" view is actually the wrong one in most instances. Especially when it comes to the hysteria that has become known as global warming. As far as Iraq goes, there are just as many Democrats who should feel responsible for where we are at now as Republicans. Remember, the President can seek approval for going to war but it takes Congress to grant that approval. Its really convenient to treat the members of congress like they were mislead children at the hands of the big bad dictator George Bush but truthfully, if they were that easily mislead then they should all be out of office...Republicans and Democrats alike. Were they three years old or something at the time? Couldn't do a little research before voting to go to war? Oh yeah...they did do research and read the same security reports that were being given to George Bush at the time. I guess they thought there was a threat there too since they voted for going to war.

I am so ...blasted tired of this entire argument concerning Iraq, and global warming for that matter. You know what...I have my opinions and if they prove in the face of history to be wrong then so be it. It will be something I will have to deal with and live with. I respect all of those out there for their opinions and encourage everyone to look at both sides of the coin and come up with what they believe to be the right point of view on these issues...even if they are different than mine. In the long run, as I look at the pictures of the Niles family and then as I look into the face of my two beautiful children, I know we all want a better world for them. We just have drastically different ideas about how to achieve that.

ps...on a lighter side my son Jackson (3 years old) just climbed up behind me and noticed the Kokopelli figure on the website. He of course calls him " Cocoa Coffee". Ah...children

July 9, 2007 at 11:26 PM · Thomas.

Be at peace--plant a garden. There is mass hysteria on both sides of both issues IHMO. Ten billion years from now, and this planet is toast anyway; and, if people don't learn to get along EF Schumacher's problems without solutions will have become Max Road Warrior--so get some tattoos and look mean.

July 10, 2007 at 03:17 AM · I love many rock bands and other types of famous artists who are indeed hypocrites, so I guess that me, as someone who does try to take some environmental measures; in fact, considerable next to most people, I too am a hypocrite. As long as we can all realize that we are in some ways contradicting our own beliefs, and thereby accepting our humanity, then we can avoid pointless (and often hilariously misinformed) discussions which turn even the most level headed of ladies like Laurie Niles to a state of vein protruding from neck while yelling at the computer.

At the end of the day, if at least some people were moved by the spirit of the event (however logically flawed it may be), then I suppose we can at least be somewhat happy that it was there in the first place.

July 10, 2007 at 03:51 AM · Never thought I would be placing a "political" commentary on this web site but here is my $.02. The late great Daniel Patrick Moyihan of NY, said you are entitled to your opinions but not your facts. Facts are facts. The earth has had gobal warming/cooling long before VP Gore made it a hot political item. When we are invited to a discussion on the topic all is well as long as you do not disagree with their perceptions. In my reading, I have read highly respected scientist who disagree with their hypothese. But these folks are now deemed "traitors" according to Robert Kenneday. The message: Its etched in stone, no discussion. I invite you to google this topic and read from distinguished scientists who "po po" the entire idea. But of course if I was making $ off this scheme, and lived in a 20 or 30,000 sq ft house, flew a private jet, used enough energy to light up a small town, I would accuse any disbeliver as a "traitor" or worse also. End of discussion. Just buy carbon off-sets, after I get the company setup to sell them, and you don't have to change your own behavior. Oh well.

July 10, 2007 at 05:32 AM · I had a comment here...but, weeelll, I changed my mind.

July 10, 2007 at 05:57 AM · Yes, they were just going on our best intelligence, who knew?

I mean it's public knowledge, that nobody knew this was bad intelligence before the U.S. went to war, right?

I guess I'd just rather read information from sources that consistently are proven correct.

This includes information about global warming. It's an issue that requires consensus if it is to be addressed, and I have no problem with musicians using music to create consensus.

July 10, 2007 at 07:55 AM · There's in interesting situation involving the dollar as the global unit of exchange for oil purchases that you can look into.

I was thinking the one scientific voice I'd immediately trust on the issue of global warming would be Richard Feynman. I googled some terms together to see if he ever said anything, and all I came up with was other people lamenting the fact that he's not around to speak on it.

July 10, 2007 at 10:56 AM · I missed a classical orchestra. Why only Popmusic or Dj's. Even ANDRÉ RIEU was not there, NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BIG 'CLASSICAL' NAMES.

July 10, 2007 at 05:19 PM · Where was Josh Bell? He could have busked in the lobby and complained nobody paid attention.

July 10, 2007 at 02:59 PM · JIm: LOL!

Laurie, do you mean you have no problem with musicians creating public awareness so the public at large can look into it. If that is what you mean then this makes sense, though I think it is rather idealistic. What Hollywood or musicians GENERALLY do is get non-thinkers to just buy into whatever they are selling, wholesale.

If you meant it literally, “create consensus,” then I have a problem with that because I do not want a society where musicians have become Plato’s philosopher/thinkers who make decisions for the rest of us. But I am pretty sure this is not what you mean.

Be that as it may, this kind of event can only serve us well if it fosters public thought based on whatever facts are really available to us. This thing is a matter of science; it is their field. And right now science is very much divided on the issue. If all the musicians were saying was that this debate, by those who are experts in the field, needs to take place and be heard so we can come to an intelligent consensus, then their motives would be good. But I doubt that this was their intent, and even if it was, they should already know that all they generally create is a small following of non-thinkers who jump on the bandwagon without looking into the facts. If that was their motive, and I do not think it was, then they need to change their methods to actually create public thought and public deabte, rather than blind public devotion to their cause.

July 10, 2007 at 04:44 PM · To my way of thinking, politicized musical festivals such as LiveEarth are more about appeasing cadillac liberals' guilty consciences than anything else.

July 10, 2007 at 05:39 PM · You must mean the performers' consciences, because the audience isn't driving cadillacs. But the big, external effect has nothing to do with that, so it can't be mainly about that even if it is part of the motive.

Music only rallies people. Don't worry about musicians sneaking into the debate. People aren't that dumb. If conditions hadn't been right, nobody would have paid attention to Woody Guthrie's songs about labor unions. Or anybody's protest music. Classical music rallies people who subscribe to a set of values too, I think. It's probably ok to say that's what music does.

July 10, 2007 at 06:08 PM · People going there are stupid too!

No matter if they have or not a cadillacs!

Stop using cars to drive 10 meters, stop polluting rivers and sea and soil!

This is a good behaviour.

How many of the persons at live earth behave in this way?

I would like to know that!

July 10, 2007 at 07:34 PM · Antonio that's a crazy way to condemn them. If everything was already ok, there would be no need for it.

July 10, 2007 at 08:48 PM · Antonio:

How much "carbon" are you "footprinting" into the earth by flying to the U.S. to play the violin?

Why not just stay home?

Why not stop using the computer. The electricity used by the internet is no small amount. It contributes handsomely to the "greenhouse."

Why not stop working, so that you don't pollute on your way to work?

Why not drive a car instead of a bike, because according to a german study, the calories burned by the human and the increased commerce of food required by exercise is greater than the energy of the car?

Why not execute all persons the day they retire, so that they don't contribute to carbon without contributing to the "economy"?

I hope you see where this is leading.

BTW even in the U.S. where cars are heavily used, it is not cars that are the major source of pollution. We use more fuel to heat our homes than to move our cars. And if you include electricity, the cars are a small minority of energy usage.

For many years, we have built non-solar houses--10s of millons of them--when suitable passive heating designs were possible. Yet nobody talks about it. Nobody wants to. It is easier to buy a Prius and pretend you are "green."

July 10, 2007 at 09:36 PM · Bill I think they pay a lot of attention to the energy aspect of houses these days, especially how they're insulated. Old houses have no insulation in the walls at all. Its' always been a matter of cost. But right now, if we used half as much energy, I'd expect to pay double the price, and nothing happens here that isn't economically driven. I have a gut feeling that if everyone drove a Prius today, the price of gas would be around Prius mpg over todays mpg, times todays price of gas.

July 10, 2007 at 10:02 PM · 1) I went to U.S. just once for my PhD in "Environmental Chemistry" and playing violin was just an hobby during that circumstance, probably you don't know that without practice that's sucks.

2)PA actually contains the best centres for the study of iron nanoprticles for soil remediation, in my country none.

3)I travel just once a year by airplane and I don't want to leave for US anymore: too far away from here.

4)I need computer to look for a job and sometime I reply to this forum.

5) the most of food I eat comes from the nearby and it means no energetic cost for transport and preservation just some oil for fishing boats and transport of some chease. I don't eat junkfood!I love bycicle and walking so I use the car just when I have to transport something heavy or to get some far place.

If you removed all the energetic cost for transport, production and preservation of food there was always the basical principle that combustion by digestion is much more effective than that obtained by burning.

My idea is just that it is ridicolous that very rich people can care such problems. It is just they have to improve their image. What is the utility of this?

I don't trust people like Bono (U2) who talk about the cancellation debt of poor countries and after transferred his society in Holland to avoid paying taxes in Ireland.

Just Disgust

Ah and you play a stupid guitar: get away from this site!!Or I'll break that on your head.I'm jocking:)

July 10, 2007 at 10:04 PM · Hey Laurie.

Also keeping in life this thread has its energetic cost.

Let's turn off this thread.

Bye Bye

July 11, 2007 at 01:25 AM · If we could only convince volcanoes to stop erupting, forrest fires to stop burning, and cows to stop farting we'd be in good shape.

July 11, 2007 at 02:49 AM · Marty, with all due respect, leave cows the heck alone. I still have karma to repay for tipping.

July 11, 2007 at 05:10 AM · I wonder where those derisive comments above are coming from (stupid, self - indulgent, narcistic, foolishly exploited, non-thinkers etc.). Wow. Maybe I'm allowed to remind you, it was no party congress nor a scientology sit in: people came to dance, laugh, inform, have a beer. And to support Al Gore. It was a rock concert.

And you're right - a discussion about causes of global warming does make no sense at all. But it scares me a bit, that some are writing about it, as if our way of life wouldn't ruin the environment. And the environment of other people. As if (oeconomically tough) consequences are just spleens of some hippies. Maybe it's just "different news - different views". I haven't heard a politican, scientist or journalist even doubting about anthropogenic influences here the last five years. The environmental goals of the EU are extremely ambitious because of it. All non-thinkers?

Of course it's no proof and of course: the EU acted, acts and will act pretty hypocritically. But should they really read and think more?

wikipedia and its sources:

"most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations,"[1] which leads to warming of the surface and lower atmosphere by increasing the greenhouse effect. Natural phenomena such as solar variation combined with volcanoes have probably had a small warming effect from pre-industrial times to 1950, but a small cooling effect since 1950.[2][3] These basic conclusions have been endorsed by at least 30 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries. The American Association of Petroleum Geologists is the only scientific society that rejects these conclusions.[4][5] A few individual scientists disagree with some of the main conclusions of the IPCC.[6]

Don't blame wikipedias pseudo-scientific nature, check the downloadable sources the article is quoting - "really junk science and political science" etc.?

Concerts like this are (besides the fun) helpful with it: people get informations (farmers, african groups etc.) in the back area next to the beer stall. It's simply not about science, it's about society. The informations are not about CO2 or deforestation, it's about lobby groups (oil, cars, petrochemical industry), ideas, promises of governments etc.. Wouldn't be the first time a strong lobby influences a country in a fatal way, would it?

July 11, 2007 at 05:17 AM · Sorry, Albert. To show my remorse, how about a nice steak dinner?

July 11, 2007 at 05:37 AM · That would definitely beat pork rinds, sassafras tea and Wohlfahrt--thank you.

July 11, 2007 at 06:36 AM · It's great when individuals do their best to be environmentally responsible. But it's our community decisions, national decisions, global decisions that will have enormous effect. That's why an event that builds consensus and political will is a good thing for a cause that needs action. No, we can't individually solve the problems caused by oil dependence and global warming. We have to do it together. And inaction has enormous effect, you can be sure.

July 11, 2007 at 08:04 AM · Mishca: with all due respect, what do you think you proved? You list one source on the matter and you think this somehow proves something? The truth is the scientific community is pretty much divided evenly on both sides. I could have listed counter arguments backed up by some of the biggest names in the discipline from the same source you used!

This is why I question the usefulness of this concert; it does not promote the need for more research to be done on the matter. It just says, rally for this because we know we are right, as if the scientific community is anywhere near a true consensus.

July 11, 2007 at 07:19 AM · Laurie, I wish I could agree with you on "enormity of effect". And planning on this scale is even ineffective in common ways: the EU cringes at just the experience of trying to get the euro standardized.

The polarity I sense, in this consensus you speak of however, is purely political. I live in one of the most impoverished regions in the nation, using other's definitions as an index. There are entire regions of America under served and truly at the whims of the consensus you speak of.. And yes, they already mostly turn their lights off at night.

The semantic content of Shakespeare's witches, "Fair is foul, foul is fair", is beyond the coal polluted air of London. The phrase means a covert subversion of principles, using double entdenre.

The personal, local, regional, implications of this become not important, but critical; and, grassroots 'really does mean from a personal level' up, both especially important to understand in a global perspective.

There is a pdf somewhere out there discussing the Chinese Economic Churn for instance. This article suggests levels of willingness to compromise the interests of especially rural poor people in the name of progress. For impoverished rural Americans, this churn is really no different you see. And the call to consensus is darn near Shakespeare-like as generation after generation of many of these has watched and experienced America doing her thing.

Our heroes have always been 'those who got out' and did well. And, this hero worship is only underwritten more broadly to the extent that many regions may continue to be exploited. 'the story-teller precedes the story'.

I like, even love the spirit of what you are saying--Appalachia has always been under the purview of the aesthetic as well as the transcendence of thought--and these qualities are of the 'real kind', of that stuff made of the double edge sword of wisdom, and our halls of ideas come from 'having' to climb to the ridge. And no, we do not feel guilty for not consorting every time the church bell rings.

Kissing up to the EU using global warming, just may get us what we wish for. So Laurie, they's a fox in the hen house honey--I like your spirit, but jest wanted you to know. (G)lobal (W)arming indeed--now just what is all this about? ;)>

Personally, I'm a conservative green token of the Mountain Party spiritually. And reaching the hearts and minds of people, from the ridge, is not they whom shout loudest, though that seems the case in today's noisy world. Reaching the hearts of minds and people will be using education that is transparent in every aspect of the social strata--including the polity.

You see, one thing that is happening because of the Information Revolution is that the force of consensus is becoming transparent like it or not. A bottle of whiskey 50 years ago, is not the same thing as knowledge workers dissecting issues in terms of regional thinkers, and creating more and more and more real understanding of issues than ever before. Our history here unfortunately is undeveloped because of the folk-nature and romanticism effecting our previous interpretations of American and European history. But, and again from the ridge, common people, enjoy the luxury of understanding their world. Globally, many feel they need to even.

But even in this dayglow noisy world, never think that common persons are not preparing for the future. The march of common persons, 'is' civilization you see. It may seem noisy now, but noise often really means change--'preaching to the choir whom may be 'everyman' is, uh, preaching to the choir. So again, this (G)lobal (W)arming--what is it really all about.

Our nation, would do well to minister to the wounds within, notwithstanding our 'real' responsibilities to the neighbors. Kennedy saw it, Johnson acted on it, and we are still waiting. Consensus indeed. Enormity of effect you say?

I hear ya!.

July 11, 2007 at 08:22 AM · Hi John,

I hadn't even the intention to prove something as I stressed out twice. The only purpose was to post a counterpoint against some posts above, which picture anthropogenic influences as vague theories, as junk and political science. There's a broad consensus under scientists and politicans, that there's most likely no doubt. At least here. We don't have to agree about "pretty much divided evenly on both sides".

The concert had no scientific background as well, just a (maybe superficial) social one. The fact, that people are talking about it, is enough.

July 11, 2007 at 10:18 AM · There are so many problems over here that this one is going to have to wait awhile.

July 11, 2007 at 05:46 PM · Thanks Mischa. I guess I did not understand you.

As for evenly divided, if you really do your homework you will see that this is the way it is right now.

As for the concert, who was talking openly about it? A one sided conversation, ok, but that is not talking about it. They have jumped on the bandwagon and are rallying around it without really ever looking into it, at least the majority. I mean do you really want to tell me that most who attend these things are well read on the subject?

But I see what you were trying to accomplish in your post, and if that is all you were trying to do, then I am sorry and I agree with you; the theory has its side of solid arguments and proponents.

July 12, 2007 at 01:49 AM · Just because there are two sides of an argument does not mean that 50 percent on one side and 50 percent on the other.

At this point, the overwhelming consensus in the scientific community is that global warming is happening.

July 12, 2007 at 02:14 AM · I haven't seen the science or the methods--nor have most people; and, the consensus from my understanding is saying that:

though we are not certain about the real cycles of the earths warming consist of, because of the spike the last 50 years, going green couldn't hurt--with which I agree. It's still highly politicized though--you can't deny that.

July 12, 2007 at 02:29 AM · Let's just be nice to the planet for a change, and see what happens.

July 12, 2007 at 02:35 AM · Maura said:

"Let's just be nice to the planet for a change, and see what happens."

Being somewhat a romantic, it's embarrassing somewhat the feelings that emanate from NASA pictures of earth... Embarrassing indeed. And you're right.

Yes--and start with her mountains!.

July 12, 2007 at 02:38 PM · Making every effort to reduce emissions of all types is something that should be started immediately, regardless of cost. It simply makes sense to keep your house clean. We live on the planet, we should keep it clean.

Though there are tens of thousands of people dying every year from bad/contaminated drinking water. I haven't heard many talking about that, and it's been going on for decades.

Let's not forget that there is global warming also taking place on Mars. I don't know how much human activity can be blamed for that, it's happening none the less.

I wonder if I'm fiddling while Rome is burning? Ha! Violin forum, Rome burning? ;)

July 12, 2007 at 03:25 PM · Rome never will burn again!!

July 12, 2007 at 05:00 PM · I dont really want to get involved in an argument, but i would like to point out that the live Earth concert in London was the worlds first ever large carbon neutral music event. And much of Sting's estate is an organic farm. I personally do not have an organic farm, I buy my foor in a shop. So he is one better than me already.

July 12, 2007 at 05:34 PM · There's no such thing as a "carbon-neutral" event.

Just because you can do fancy accounting doesn't make it better.

July 12, 2007 at 06:20 PM · Someone wasn't kidding: cows! sheesh gad--(shakes head convinced the shoulder rest debate pales in comparison).

July 12, 2007 at 07:39 PM · Bilbo, of course there can be a carbon-neutral event. If you discount net effects then there's no point to anything.

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