Looking for a great modern bow
Now that I am close to choosing the 2 violins that I wanted to find (0ne will surely be the Needham!) it is time to consider a great bow. I want something that is very well balanced, bounces well, puts out a lot of sound, is reasonably light, and has a full sound (not overly bright). Right now I am considering: Samuels, Le Canu, Pierre-Yves Fuchs
Robert Morrow, Roy G Quade, Ole Kanestrom, Mitsuaki Sasano, and Roger Zabinski. Does anyone play with a bow from these makers? Who else should I look into?
BTW, three more philharmonic players came to play the Needham that is here, all three thought it was one of the best violins they have ever played and all three agreed that it put out a thicker, more complex sound then what they were playing with (older violins worth a lot of money!). And when it came to presence and projection, well the Needham was, “unreal,” according to one of them.
Another side note: a concertmaster named Francis just bought a Burgess. He tried it in the hall they plain in, in Switzerland. He put it up against some million-dollar instruments that others owned in the orchestra. The orchestra liked the Burgess as much or more! I can get you the details, if you want, just email me.
Well, does anyone play on a great modern bow, if so please tell me about it, I would really appreciate it.
Ray
Replies (99)
Investment is indeed a consideration. Unfortunately, it's one where I definitely need to defer to others' much more extensive expertise. However, for sheer playability, one modern maker I tried whose work seemed tremendous to me was Rod Mohr in Cleveland. I tried two bows in the shop while waiting for mine to be rehaired, and another which he sent to DC for a student of mine to try. All three struck me as being top-notch: well-balanced, drawing a clear tone (no fuzz, no grit), with an easy, unforced spiccato, a full-bodied piano, great articulation and, most importantly, a feeling of riding in a groove in the strings. Almost like a train - swerve-proof and solid.
I have a question for Gennady:
Who is the best modern bow maker that makes the best Peccatte models? I'd like to see a bow that plays like a light Peccatte(59-60grams).
Thanks
There are some very fine makers today.
Two of my favorite Peccatte copies that I play is from J.F. Raffin and Sylvain Bigot.
If you are in Germany, you can look up J. Tino Lucke and Daniel Shmidt. Their work is very fine as well.
Yes I have heard nothing but great things about Bigot and Le Canu, also Fuchs, which I have left off of the list.
Tell me more about this maker Emil.
Ray
How much do these two makers go for Gennady? Gennady, how would you compare Le Canu and Bigot, since you have seen many bows from these two makers.
I know Le Canu has one a lot of comps, has Bigot gotten the same kind of attention?
Don't know that much more. I was in Ohio to play at Encore, needed an emergency rehair and asked around for who would do a same-day job on a Friday or Saturday or whatever inconvenient day it was. Andrew Sords recommended Mohr (and Howard Needham seconded the recommendation when I spoke with him that same day). Just my luck that the guy who did a great rehair also makes wonderful bows...
I think the price tag on those bows was very reasonable, though I don't think it my place to announce other people's price tags in a public forum. What if, for instance, his prices have gone up? But I'm pretty sure that you can locate him in Cleveland or ask HN for his contact info. As for investment, again I hesitate to offer an opinion that may end up being biased or misguided. I just speak as someone who played with Mohr's bows and liked them a lot, for all the reasons enumerated above.
Wish I could be more helpful, Raymond...
Bigot won Silver medal in Concours Etienne Vatelot 1999 when he was only in his early 20's.
He was Raffin's shop manager for almost 10 years.
LeCanu (winner of 3 Gold Medals from VSA as well as 2 Silver Medals from Concours Etienne Vatelot), makes bows in his personal model.
Bigot prefers to make copies. He loves the old bows of the classic 19th century makers.
Neverteless, there are similarities in their bows.
They are "on top of their game".
In their field, choice of wood is critical, as well as superb craftsmanship.
ps: they have some fantastic wood, and their craftsmanship has been recognized worldwide.
But you should also try our Port Townsend makers, and see what you think.
Robert Morrow is the new kid on the block with 3 Gold VSA medals. Also Paul Siefried and Charles Espey mind you...
BTW,
One of the great American bowmakers people should respect and remember is Keith Peck. He died in 1998 (age 45).
as well as
http://www.stringsmagazine.com/instruments/Back_Issues/ST65/AmberBow65.html
5 or 10 bows! Man your a player Gennady! I do not think I could do that! LOL
Honestly, I do not think I could go from one bow to the other like that all the time. I know many do it, but at my age I have enough trouble playing well! I really do not know how many of you go from one bow to the other so easily, wish i could.
Ray
Oh and forget Espy. I know many think he is the best bow maker in the world, and he may very well be. But I cannot tell you how many are still waiting on his waiting list, or to even hear from him. The man is sought after like few are, and many who would like to get a bow from him never will.
Fuchs makes incredible bows.
A great bowmaker whose work you can try is Francois Malo. He has bows in the hands of some very well reputed players and teachers, and he makes top notch examples.
Obviously I like Gilles Nehr as well since that's one of the bows in my growing collection.
However, I must say that I like older french bows. I have a beautiful Millant in gold and tortoiseshell, that I decided is too stiff and am now selling it. It's a shame because the wood is so beautiful, but it's just not the right bow for me.
But anyways, I think all the makers mentioned are very good. There's so much quality available with bowmakers that it's hard to buy a bad bow these days.
You should have gotten a round stick Millant not octagonal.
Octagonal will always be stiffer by any maker.
My G/T Millant is round, and it plays great (like an old classic).
Well I tend to like octagonal bows, but this one was even stiffer than my Ouchard. It sounded nice, but just too stiff. I took some crude pictures so I could always remember how pretty it was, but this one is out the door and once it sells, there's a few that I already have my eye on.
This bow this truly is a disease...
For what it's worth, my limited experience in looking for bows to go with my daughter's new Borman violin makes me think: old bow / new violin is a good combination and more or less allows one to be at that 1:3 ratio of bow cost to violin cost. I understand it's all rather personal -- my daughter likes a pretty light (58-59 gram) bow. After trying many modern and older bows, she chose a Claude Thomassin and is very happy with it. The tone colors it draws from the violin seem limitless.
So, don't neglect to check out older "second tier" French makers.
Though known more as a violin maker and dealer, Christophe Landon makes excellent bows. Being french, I think he takes special pride in his bows. I am playing on one of his Peccatte copies currently. Also consider him for your other violin.
My wife is French, does that make her an archetier as well?
Or the "Chanel 5" spokeswoman.....LOL :)
BTW, if one is in NYC, do check out Isaac Salchow. I saw Jaime Laredo's bow, and it was excellent.
Sounds like you have quite a nice collection, Mr. Filimonov! I was wondering, how do the modern bows you own differ from the older ones? I find the topic of bows fascinating, it's amazing how they make such a difference for each violin.
I am currently playing/performing on a bow by Roger Zabinsky. It's fantastic. It's around stick, fully silver mounted, not sure exactly of the weight. It is a light bow, i will tell you that, but not excessively light, but it is too light for some peoples touch, but that may all be based on their technique as well as the bow. I find it perfect, it really sinks itself into the string well. The spiccato is superior to any other bow i own, even and doesnt bounce too high and uncontrollably. The sound is round and full, with some contemporary "bite" i liek to call it. it is realllybeautifully crafted bow; a work of art. It did cost me a pretty penny tho. I havn't tried any of his gold mounted bows, but i am extremely happy with this bow. It's like an extension of my arm.
Ill suggest that u do try out some of his bows. He is fairly easy to contact as well.
ian
Julia,
Finding the right bow for ones violin is realy finding a partnership between the two.
It could be an old bow or it could be a new one that suits your instrument.
I find that today, there are makers making superb bows, many are copies of old, some are based on personal models (inspired by the classics).
Generally, when we are looking to upgrade, we are searching for better tone production and most likely better handling. The sound of 19th century French bows is supreme for a good reason.
Choice of materials, strength, weight, model and flexibility.
The best of todays makers, try to emulate the past with that criteria.
The ones who are most succesful, start out with the best choice of wood to begin with.
BTW,
If it helps , in my violin case I carry a D. Peccatte, Maline, Y. LeCanu and S. Bigot. I use them interchangeably.
I honestly love my "modern" bows as much as my old ones. It does depend on what I am playing.
Anone play on a Matthew Wehling? He's another guy who is hot right now having won many competitions of late. And yes, as Gennady said, R. Morrow. Any one play any of these bows?
Raymond,
A lot has to do with what kind of instrument one plays, the kind of model the bow is made and what is ones criteria for getting a new stick that is very different from the old one.
In my mind, what sets some makers apart is the special design etc.
For me, there is also the investment in bows, and you know the rest as far as French bows go etc.
LeCanu and Bigot have a secret ingredient in their design, which makes for a very lush big sound, excellent balance and lots of reserve power yet supple as well, something Keith Peck was also doing in his personal model.
Are Bigot and LeCanu the only ones with the secret ingredient?
with this particular ingredient....so far yes.
Wow that's cool. So Espy, Thomachot, Rolland, Nehr, Kanestrom, Quade, Vann, Fuchs, Clement, and others like them don't know this secret?
Vive la Difference!
I did say earlier in the thread, that there are a lot of good makers out there....
All are individual in following their own vision, and designs.
"Are Bigot and LeCanu the only ones with the secret ingredient?..."with this particular ingredient....so far yes."
Pieter, you'll never know till you try.
I love my Clement bow and I am waiting with exitement for my next one!
I have tried a couple of Charles Espey's bows and they are great as well.
Just remember that bows are a very personal choice much more so than violins. At the end of the day the only thing is to try as many as you can.
Like I have stated earlier:
"Finding the right bow for ones violin is realy finding a partnership between the two.
It could be an old bow or it could be a new one that suits your instrument.
I find that today, there are makers making superb bows, many are copies of old, some are based on personal models (inspired by the classics)."
BTW Kristian, I love Clement's bows too.
Hi folks. Just back for a brief visit. At this point I've heard - and heard fine things - about most of the bow makers that have been mentioned here. I haven't heard of this violin maker, Needham. I'm intrigued!
I'd like to throw another bow maker's name into the ring, without implying any put-down at all of any other maker: D. WILLIAM HALSEY. I bought a bow of his last Spring, and the honeymoon is far from over. From 1992-2004 Halsey won 2 gold medals, 7 certificates of merit, and the Moller award at VSA competitions. He made my bow in 2005, and as far as I'm concerned this one would deserve a platinum medal, if there were such a thing. I'm not alone. I personally know 3 dealers in the NY area who are crazy about his work. Two of them have never had a bow of his for sale, and had nothing to gain from expressing their views. One of them is a bow maker, himself. He commissioned a matched quartet of bows from Halsey for his own private collection. High praise, inded, from one bow maker to another!
My particular bow (-he sent me 4 to choose from-) is extremely strong and focused. But it also has resilliance, spring, and a beautiful balance. I can play fortissimo, and still feel a reserve of power. But it's also fine for pianissimo, and every dynamic inbetween. It goes particularly well with my favorite violin, and draws out a broad spectrum of overtones, and has color and presence. It's penetrating, crisp, and very steady, with good bite and edge, which I like. It's a bow more typical for conceros than Bach chordal movements. It's excellent for all "technical" bowings as well as for long sustained bows and various nuances. My own collection includes an exquisite FR Simone, and I've tried many bows by top makers such as Tourte, Pecatte (admittedly not the best Pecattes), Sartory, Voirin, etc. I still like my Halsey best. The only bows, for my particular taste and style, that I've found to be on this level, each in its own way, was a gold fleurs-de-lis Hill in the Library of Congress that had belonged to Kreisler, and a superb Ouchard, belonging to a colleague.
It's visually very beautiful as well. This particular bow is gold-and-ebony mounted with gorgeous, highly-figured, 'ringed' pernambuco (-his bows aren't all like that-) and a most elegantly conceived head, frog and shaft.
If anyone would like to contact him, he's at billbows@midmaine.com You can mention my name - but he still won't give me a finder's fee :(
As has been mentioned before, there's a symbiosis of player, violin, and bow that's always unique. Good luck to all in their search!
BTW all,
Gilles Nehr is being featured in this months STRINGS magazine:
"Thinking Outside the Bow" - Gilles Nehr’s innovative tête-bêche sticks it to hundreds of years of tradition. By Patrick Sullivan.
He is an excellent maker with whom I've had a good longstanding business relationship.
Does anyone have contact information for Fuchs? or Morgan Anderson?
Thanks, Ray
Despite your antics on some other threads here is the info:
Morgan Anderson has moved to Rosalia, in eastern Washington
(509) 523-3628
Johnson String carries Fuchs's bows : sales@johnsonstring.com
800 359-9351
Ifshin Violins in Berkeley, CA typically has many bows by Morgan Andersen. Usually a wide range of silver mounted bows and a few gold bows.
I believe Ifshin's is the only shop that Morgan works with.
- Ray
Ah, yes, Ifshins has quite a few Anderson bows.
I remember trying a few last time I was in Berkeley...the ones I tried were very fine bows, and I found the handling to be very precise and smooth. I also tried a Peccatte and Sartory while there, and couldn't really find anything to seperate them from the Anderson bows....
Though I did like a Thomassin there more than the Anderson.
Wee bit higher of a price tag, though.
If you want to contact Morgan A. directly, I'm sure he would not hang up on you.
Morgan Anderson (509) 523-3628
PLEASE consider bows from brazil......I have two bows and both are interchangable as primary bow. They are excellent and very inexpensive and a luthier who i showed them two commented on ust how GOOD they were.
I can't recommend more
Yung Chin in New York City makes excellent bows. Also does wonderful repairs - I like him he's an honest guy.
For information : Mr Sylvain BIGOT was never the manager of our workshop (Atelier RAFFIN) but the 1st assistant of Mr. Jean-François RAFFIN, my father.
Mr. BIGOT learned his trade in our workshop which I currently direct.
We manufacture bows signed "RAFFIN à PARIS" in the pure tradition of the Great Masters of the French bowmaking, entirely hand manufactured , in the most beautiful wood of pernambouc dried in our cellars since 20 years.
I think Florian's comment is worth noting; a player I know bought a Brazilian bow which I had the chance to try, and it was very nice, he also had a Louis Bazin.....
Two excellent contemporary bowmakers that you may consider are Rolland Benoit and Thomas Dignan both based out of Boston.
Here the bowmakers who we formed in our workshop :
Sylvain BIGOT (France)
Jeong Bong LEE (Korea)
Tibor KOVACS (Italia and Slovaquia)
Louis BEGIN, André LAVOIE, Richard COMPARTINO and Hubert CHAGNON (Canada)
Jean-Luc TAUZIEDE (France)
I just heard from Mr. Filimonov that Yannick Le Canu has won the Meilleur Ouvrier de France / Best Artisan of France Concours (October 2007).
incidentally, I also heard that one of the bright stars of France ANTOINE TAMESTIT (VIOLIST), plays a Sylvain Bigot bow.
A bit funny.
I confirm that Yannick LE CANU is the new "Meilleur Ouvrier de France" for this year.
But Mr Jeong Bong LEE, from our workshop (since 3 years), have a good notation at this "concours" ;-)
hello sandrine !
i am new in this board!
i would like to say that, me also, i took part at this prestigious competition of " meilleur ouvrier de france", i have a very good place,with 18/20 with my copy and restauration...
Pardon Sandrine, but trying to belittle LeCanu's Gold (medal) is not a smart thing to do.
As I understand, the "Meilleur Ouvrier de France" competition occurs every 5 years. I don't think that there is such a thing as the best Silver medalist :)
How was Sandrine "belittling" LeCanu Carol(or Gennady)?
Peter,
Just scroll up, and read her post.
If you wish to address Gennady, you can email him.
Just because I am in Seattle...
As I said ""Meilleur Ouvrier de France" competition occurs every 5 years. I don't think that there is such a thing as the best Silver medalist".
Your writing styles are identical...
really?! I'll take that as a compliment, thanks.
I doubt he can breast-feed :)
You know, from reading some of your posts Pieter, you kinda sound like him.
BTW, for many v.commies abroad, it is a fantastic time for bargain hunting in the US (for American makers). The Dollar has fallen so much and will be going even further according to the FEDS.
We're great friends so it doesn't suprise me.
Well Carol,your writing style is just like like Gennadys',but I'll play along with you...
I'm not in a position to recommend any bows, but I did hear that Roger Zabinski bows are good and priced around maybe $4,000. Zabinski won a Violin Society of America Competition Gold Medal for violin bows. Just passing on info...
So what really happened to Gennady here??
Nobody has mentioned David Samuels yet. One of my sons has one of his bows and it is unusually smooth and capable of pulling a very full sound.
I had a chance to see and hear quite a number of Quade bows, each one very different from another. One of his bows, a silver medal winner, was probably the best bow my son ever tried (although we felt too expensive for a modern bow). It was highly responsive and live. One of the Quade bows felt uncontrollable and one was especially gritty.
Raphael,
I have noticed he has been busy.
You can see what he is up to at www.myspace.com/gennadyfilimonov or www.filimonovfineviolins.tk
or www.classicallounge.com
We miss his comments here.
I'll second that!!
Carol., errrrrrrrrr, Gennady...
since you're posting anyway, why don't you just make it official and re-register with your real name?
what do you mean?
My name is Carol.
Too funny. :)
I never realized you had such a great sense of humor, Gennady! Great to see! :)
like I said to Pieter, I don't think he can breast-feed :)
From Raphael Klayman;
"So what really happened to Gennady here??"
-----------
Uhm....... let's just say that he no longer appears to be a registered member of the forum.
My impression was that his disappearance loosely coincided with the appearance of Carol, but it's probably just coincidence. ;)
well, like Lazarus, he has come back... except as a woman; Gennaria, if you will.
"breast-feed."
Ah....so that's what the punctuation after Carol represents... lol
'My name is Anton Karidian (but I might be Kodos, the Executioner).'
Where did I take that from?
I only see one "dot" after the name. I hope some child isn't under-nourished.
Oops, I'll be good.
easy way to find out if Carol really is Gennady: somebody make a disparaging remark about Heifetz.
;-)
H3lfe72 sux0rz. Pwned.
I'm reminded of an excellent book called "Author Unknown : On the Trail of Anonymous" by Don Foster. He's the linguistic equivalent of a forensic medical examiner, (or, indeed, a violin or Art expert), and has proven the authorship of a number of 'anonymous' or 'pen name' texts. I must say I second (or is it 4th or 5th by this point?) the motion re Carol=Gennady. Does anyone remember that French lady a while back who seemed intent on doing nothing but attacking American bow makers? She must have been flagged, and removed from v.com, as none of that thread remained. I seem to recollect that Gennady disappeared from v.com around the same time. But I sincerely hope that it was no more than coincidence. I could be wrong about all of this, and if so, I apologize. I'm no Don Foster. For all I know there might be some breast-feeding lady in Brooklyn who writes a lot like I do!
Raphael,
There are new members on v.com joining everyday.
I am quite flattered with your comments, but I have only stated the obvious.
I have followed the many threads for a long time (and learned a lot), and decided to pay him a visit and see for myself.
Gennady was very generous with his time.
He spent quite a while telling me about the many makers he has met and worked with as well as telling me about the great old French makers.
The thread you are talking about is still there:
http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=11365
strangely the person who started it, is no longer a member? Natalie Palina
gennady.
???????
you know, I also notice that Emil Chudnovsky has been silent for a long time too?
What is that all about?
He left deliberately, and I doubt he'll be returning.
Carol - you're right. I did find that thread and forgot that I actually wrote the last post on it. But the querrelsome lady I was thinking of was not Natalie Palina, who began the thread, but "Celine P".
Anyway, since you're so close with Gennady - kind of like Clark Kent to Kal-el (Superman) - maybe you could ask him what he thought of that thread re Gerard Schwartz and the Seattle Symphony.
Yes Carol! What has Gennady offered to you on this topic?
From people I know (some who are in the Symphony) others are freelancers, all of the things discussed in the NY Times are true.
Gennady actually did not want to talk about it and changed the subject.
Raphael, thank you for the cute remark, but I don't run into him that often. I have heard him with his quartet (really enjoyed it), and have visited him to see his collection and have ordered a bow. He has some very nice samples of his group on his quartet website www.myspace.com/gennadyfilimonov
Other than that, I have my own life to live and tend to my husband and son.
Ok, if you are not Gennady (which of course you are) please state your real name- as demanded by the rules of registration of this site, Gennady.
Or, just fess up and come back! :)
"Other than that, I have my own life to live and tend to my husband and son."
Folks, you decide.
William,
I really don't see your point.
Is my statement not clear enough, or do you want to be invited for dinner to meet my husband and son?!
There are many people on this site who prefer not to reveal their last names, or their real names. Some have fake made up "logos". Just scroll up. there are a few people without last names. I am not the only one. I prefer it this way.
I don't presume to judge one way or the other whether Carol is Gennady, but I just feel like throwing this out there: I have perhaps a bit too much experience identifying reincarnated "trolls" on various other websites (disclaimer: no, I did NOT just call Gena a troll.) You look for typical turns of phrase, habitual spelling errors, characteristic grammatical tics. I don't remember Gennady's writing style all that well but I notice a few slight idiosyncracies here that might indicate a native speaker of Russian.
On the other hand, it's one in the morning and I haven't eaten since before lunch, so take my sleuthing with a grain of salt.
Folks,once or twice is funny.
It's not funny any more.
Please knock it off.
It is now wearing thin.
Thanks!
Mara, didn't you used to be Maura?
Mara,
Here's something you forgot.
Gennady always formats all his posts like this.
He also likes to list bowmakers in a certain order, and of course, plaster his websites everywhere.
Privet Gena.
"once or twice is funny.
It's not funny any more.
Please knock it off."
It is now in the realm of harassment.
Thanks!
other websites I enjoy visiting are: www.joshuabell.com, HilaryHahn.com and www.vanzandtviolins.com
David Van Zandt is a very talented Seattle Violin Maker who is popular with the locals.
ps: you folks sure know how to make a (recent) member feel welcome.
He also likes to repost things he already wrote in quotations.
(thanks Gennady for the correction!!)
Hi Gena!!!
ya tak silno skuchal pa tibe!!!!
Zhelayu vsevo khoroshego.
S uvazheniem,
Petichka
quotions? is that a word?
?????????????????????????
Interesting analogy, as if there is only one person in the world using quotation marks.
Can you move off the subject.
Why does Gena always return in the guise of...women?
Muara I mean Mara, if you miss him so much, drop him a line. You can get his contact information on his website (www.filimonovfineviolins.tk)
Folks, please drop this charade, it's not funny anymore.
OK so if you really aren't Gena, why is it soooo important that your disguise hold up?
Don't you have bows to discuss?
Anyone try a Robert Morrow or Isaac Salchow?
I have plenty to say about bows, but it's more fun to bother Gena. :)
I want a gold mounted Gennady Filimonov. 69 grams. Strong, octagonal stick. Double parisian eyes.
Gena, Angel moy;
Ya ischu devushku, kotoraya khochet lyubit i bit luybimoy.
Ti takaya neobichnaya.
Ti takaya krasivaya.
Ya mechtayu o tom dne kogda mee stanem odnoy semyoy.
Ya blagadaryu boga chto vstretil tebya.
Zhdu vashego otveta.
Petichka.
OK, I'm calling you Petichka from now on...
I can see why some people decide to leave this place.
Oh and since you miss him so much, you should drop him a line and let him know how much you miss him.
so much for Q & A on bows.
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February 28, 2007 at 06:13 AM · I play on a whole lot of them.
And they are wonderful. But I still love my old bows as well!!!
That is why I have more the two dozen bows.
There are many fine makers today.
I deal with LeCanu and Bigot which are superb (and they happen to be French).
Again as in the previous thread, it is a question of affordability.
If one is on a budget of under 5K, go for a new bow. There are many who also look into English and German bows in that price category.
There are options.
I always look at the investment aspect....(but we've had this discussion before, never mind).
BTW Raymond,
since you know what you want and you were specific (as you stated:I want something that is very well balanced, bounces well, puts out a lot of sound, is reasonably light, and has a full sound -not overly bright) - you should consider just commissioning a bow with your criteria. Just pick a maker. And since it is not like buying a violin, you can commission top 5 (or 10)makers, this way you can enjoy and be polygamous with your bows.