January 31, 2007 at 05:13 AM ·
January 31, 2007 at 05:19 AM · Milstein's has been the definitive recording (Live Performance).
I'm sure I will like Josh Bell's as well, as I do like his playing very much.
January 31, 2007 at 06:22 AM · Gennady - I have both Milstein's live and studio recordings. They are both equally good in my opinion, the audio on the studio recording is a bit better. It's a shame Heifetz only recorded the 2nd movement.
January 31, 2007 at 05:11 PM · Bronislav Gimpel
January 31, 2007 at 05:33 PM · I own the Bell recording--the Sibelius on the same cd is very interesting. The Goldmark that he and Salonen recorded is a recording of the notes on paper no more no less. Clearly --to me--Bell and Salonen do not think too much of the piece and they were not going to invest very much energy in it. Rather than make the piece sound as well as it might they played it with all of Goldmark's limitations and none of their own considerable musicianship were they going to waste on investing this piece with a great performance. The playing is in tune and has good ensemble and nothing more. Gimpel who does not play with the spot on intonation of Bell clearly thinks the piece is worth some investment--yes, he makes cuts and they tighten the piece considerably. Moreover he invest the piece with a lot of heartfelt playing and makes the piece with its rather overlong cadenza sound like a piece you might also want to play. Bell made me wish it were already over. I have little respect for such a sanctimonious approach to the making of music. If you don't believe in the piece--let someone else play it.
January 31, 2007 at 05:56 PM · ...nothing in my modest point of view is definitive...there are still new interpretations to come, and probably very soon a recording of Hilary Hahn performing the Goldmark. I love the recordings of Milstein playing that concerto. It seems that the entire work was written for him...Great aristocratic sound!
January 31, 2007 at 06:02 PM ·
January 31, 2007 at 06:11 PM · Whatever you might think of Bell's recording, Jay, your assumptions about his intentions are incorrect. Joshua Bell has frequently spoken of the Goldmark concerto with respect, and you need only to consider his most recent projects---transcriptions of favorite melodies for violin---to realize that he has some of the least "sanctimonious" attitudes among classical musicians today. In fact, in almost every interview he emphasizes the need for music to be alive and not treated as some sort of museum piece.
January 31, 2007 at 06:18 PM · Sorry Karin I calls 'em as I sense them and I've hated this GOldmark since the first hearing. The Sibelius on the otherhand is a triumph. Of course, it's just possible that the idiom of the concerto is completely beyond Bell. Some of his salon pieces sound played at one remove from his emotions. Then again I hate Heifetz for the same reason--it feels like an ice cube on my neck.
January 31, 2007 at 08:01 PM · Jay, you don't have to apologize to me. I don't object to you hating Josh's Goldmark recording---to each his own. I just think it's inappropriate to claim you understand an artist's motivations based on what you hear. To say "I find this recording unemotional" is valid; to say "Bell didn't think it was worth spending time on this concerto" is conjecture.
January 31, 2007 at 08:00 PM · Ice cube on your neck Jay? That's very interesting....
January 31, 2007 at 08:00 PM · One point to Karin on that one...it's usually impossible (and slightly arrogant) to presume to know what a musician is thinking while playing.
January 31, 2007 at 09:34 PM · I have Sarah Chang and Perlman. Will be buying the Milstein version very soon - it has been on my wish-list and I shall be acquiring it soon because of this thread.
January 31, 2007 at 11:44 PM · Marc V,
Milstein owned the piece throughout his career. It is the same reason why not too many collegues of his generation recorded it (like Heifetz and others).
Hence my post stating that it was the definitive recording.
February 1, 2007 at 12:29 AM · I absolutely adore Joshua Bell's recording of the Goldmark. In fact, the first time I heard the third movement was the first time I realy loved classical music.
February 1, 2007 at 02:34 AM · Gennady has it absolutely right. Milstein owned the Goldmark. I had the distict privilege to hear him play this with the Long Beach Phil when I was a young lad. My teacher was the concert master, so I think that was why my mother and I attended. I have heard his recording over the years and its wonderful. I could never figure out why the Goldmark never became as popular as I think it should have. It is a very beautiful concerto with wonderful melodies etc.
February 1, 2007 at 01:19 PM · I've been chuckling over the comments that my displeasure with Bell and my perception of his approach hve engendered. Clearly some of you are forgetting that the moment you step out and perform you become the object of both adulation and contempt. You will have your playing judged as much by the perceptions about your playing as it will be judged by the simple notes you play. And once you play solo performance you will discover that they will review your dress and perceived demeanor as often as they do your actual playing. If you don't like that--tuff. It's the way it works and opinions are cheap--everyone has at least one.
February 1, 2007 at 01:36 PM · jay, i think you are definitely entitled to your opinion because it is how you interpret bell's interpretation. but i do see why some have objected to the length of your thinking as to what bell might have in mind,,to take the piece seriously or not. to some that is more like speculation.
if a teacher knows a glassy eyed student v well, then i can see the teacher say: I THINK YOU'D RATHER BE PLAYING MORE VIDEO GAME AT HOME INSTEAD OF PLAYING VIOLIN RIGHT HERE, AM I RIGHT?!:)
if you have prescribed meds to a patient and found out later he did not take it, it may be jumping on the gun assuming he is not compliant. for one, maybe he does not have the money to fill it.
February 1, 2007 at 01:47 PM · Charles:
I love the Goldmark concerto, but like many others in the repertoire, it is not a masterpiece.It deserves to be played...Hilary Hahn is taking the flambeau and she can sure play it very well and in the "grand" style ...
February 1, 2007 at 03:43 PM · Nate--
I agree that the concerto is a wonderful piece with great tunes and some lovely fiddle writing but there are places in that cadenza which just churn away winding throught the circle of fifths that make me want to scream bloody murder. It's as though he had written himself into a corner and didn't know how to get out of it any faster. Some of it is just funny.
February 1, 2007 at 03:47 PM · Edit: argh, interrupted again--I'm referring to Jay's earlier post about opinions, reviewers etc.
Yes, well spoken! The same applies to those with whom you disagree!
Everyone is entitled to speak their mind here, those who adore Joshua Bell, those who can't stand him and everyone in between. The objection to which you, in turn, object, was not your dislike of Bell's recording but the presumption that you knew everything that was going on in his mind. Opinions are one thing, pretensions quite another, my good colleague.
February 1, 2007 at 03:56 PM · As I said Maura--
People will impugn all matter of things to your performance once you put it out there. Some will be true and some won't. Tuff!! Once you're out there you are fair game.
February 1, 2007 at 06:42 PM · Yes, I got that. This is reminding me somewhat of one of my "general rules of democracy" that I come up with from time to time:
"Freedom of speech does not equal carte blanche to act like a jerk."
I am not calling you a jerk, but the general principle still stands. Like I said, opinions are fine, pretensions and/or ordinary rudeness something else again.
February 1, 2007 at 06:19 PM · Oh great and glorious wizard I missed the edict in which it was declared that you would issue""general rules of democracy"" for the rest of us. IN any event I will try not to pay any attention to the little person behind the curtain.
February 1, 2007 at 06:40 PM · There was no "edict", sir, and my "principles of democracy" were not created for the members of violinist.com. I am a politics junkie and theorize about things like democracy in my spare time. I, for my part, will apologize for any offense caused, instead of just saying "Tuff!".
February 1, 2007 at 07:36 PM · I just love the piece. It's one of the my all time favorites. Have the 2 Milstein's plus Perlman, Ricci and old (and forgotten) Peter Rybar. The last
3 are very good, but,as have been said, Milstein owns the piece. Anybody knows if the second Goldmark's v.c.has been published?
February 1, 2007 at 11:53 PM · sta bene
August 8, 2007 at 10:46 PM · All of the recommendations of the Goldmark on this discussion board are very good. But the one that REALLY stands out for me is with Dylana Jenson, recorded with her husband David Lockington and the Grand Rapids Symphony Orchestra (recorded from their Carnegie Hall concert). I've always loved Ms. Jenson's performances and recordings -- especially her famous recording of the Sibelius Concerto with Ormandy and Brahms Violin Sonatas. She always had an "herculian" intensity as well as thought-provoking artistry. But this recent recording of the Goldmark really helped me realize why I am learning the violin. Every note in that recording was so breathtaking that it left me emotionally exhausted after hearing it. (I say this in a good way).
If you are interested, you can buy the recording by calling the Grand Rapids Symphony Office.
August 8, 2007 at 11:01 PM · Nate, I had the exact same experience with this recording of the Goldmark! I think I was even driving down 95. =)
August 9, 2007 at 01:19 AM · If you think the Bell recording is good,listen to Nai-Yuan Hu play this concerto (won the 1985 Queen Elizabeth Competition). Also a Gingold pupil, but much better (not nearly as much publicity)
August 9, 2007 at 01:35 AM · The Milstein is by far the best.
August 9, 2007 at 11:09 PM · Yes you are right this was Mr. Milstein's piece.
August 9, 2007 at 11:29 PM · Another vote for Milstein's Testament version. It tops Perlman & Sarah Chang versions.
August 10, 2007 at 12:03 AM · Bell's recordings are patched and doctored obscene amounts.
September 17, 2010 at 06:47 PM ·
I don't know.
Back to the thread... I am impressed with the concertos played by the Guarnieri quartet.
September 17, 2010 at 07:33 PM ·
"Is there a way to check with a computer how many splices there are?"
If it is a digital modern recording the answer is most probably "no" unless you have access to the same hardware and software that the recording studio used, and even then I'd have my doubts. With the older analog tape recordings it may be more likely you could detect the splices, but even then you'll probably have to be using forensic standard audio editing software.
Slightly off topic (again!), but I've got a 1968 LP of Beethoven's quartets Opp. 74 and 95 recorded by the Prague Quartet on the Supraphon label (SUA ST 50916). Every time I listened to it I thought there was something slightly odd but I couldn't put my finger on it, but then I realised - the recording was about a semitone sharp and the speed was up accordingly. The clue was the unnatural vibrato as a result of the increased recording speed. Why did the studio do this? I can only guess that it was in order get those two works on one LP more comfortably and to avoid distortion - but at a cost. In those days they didn't have a computer to do a neat job. Anyway, I copied it on to my PC and reduced the speed to the correct pitch and now it sounds natural and doubtless as the Prague Quartet intended. This LP is now a prized possession - but rather for the wrong reason!
Another LP, which I bought during my schooldays when pocket money was tight, was of the Emperor Concerto, and was dirt cheap. I don't remember the soloist, conductor or orchestra, but it was on a label I'd never heard of. What was glaringly obvious on the second side, in the transition to the last movement, was a sudden downward shift in pitch accompanied by an equally obvious change in the acoustic and what was evidently a different piano (for all I knew it could well have been a different set of performers). The killer was when I let the needle go past the end, and then I thought I could hear a voice on the recording. I wound the volume up to 11 and heard the immortal words "right lads, we'll print that". I've always regretted getting rid of that utterly crap recording; it would have held pride of place in my Black Museum.
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