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How does dyslexia effect music reading?Teaching and Pedagogy: How does dyslexia effect peoples ability to sight read music?From bob leebman
From Gennady Filimonov
(: edrgorter ni gnidaer yrt - try reading in retrograde :)
Posted on May 9, 2006 at 04:26 AM From Jen Gray
This is a more serious answer than Gennady's (I hope) Dyslexia can affect many aspects of reading including perception of relative pitch, rhythm, interpretation of symbols, ability to follow the line of music. Some students have trouble with all these things, some with only a few of these at a time. The most important thing appears to be avoiding an overload of information that cannot be processed as quickly or as efficiently by dyslexic students. They need to have opportunities to prepare rather than be hit with everything in sightreading all at once. Many things can help: here are some suggestions (courtesy of an ASTA session by Judy Bossuat)Posted on May 9, 2006 at 05:08 AM 1) Enlarge the music 2) Put corresponding colours at beginning and end of lines (ie green at end of one line and beginning of next line, then blue, then green etc) to facilitate the eye finding the next line 3) Darken the middle line of the stave, and the first ledger lines above and below 4) Rewrite the music so that all the stems go the same direction 5) Make sure that the music is written in proportional notation (ie that half notes occupy twice as much space as quarter notes) to facilitate rhythm reading. 6) Keep similar fingerings in similar passages I'm sure there are more ideas that I have forgotten. Some people suggest having one colour at the top line of the staff and another consistently at the bottom to help the eye distinguish between notes going up and those going down. There are a number of articles and even a few books written about the subject which you could look up on the net. From Marianne Devos
to addd to the above dyslexic musicians have great difficulty in recongnising patterns (invaluable for sight reading unfortunately)
Posted on May 9, 2006 at 07:29 AM From Gennady Filimonov
I know a great many professional musicians who have had very succesful careers, and they had dyslexia which never really got in the way. And practicing retrograde helped them a great deal.Posted on May 9, 2006 at 02:19 PM It is a myth that dyslexic musicians have a great difficulty recognizing patterns. For example, we (in Seattle Symphony) had a fantastic principal oboist (now retired) who had dyslexia, it never hindered his performances. It is a matter of mind over body. From Peter Wilson
Thank you for your clarification Gennady.Posted on May 9, 2006 at 05:14 PM I have suffered from Dyslexia most of my life, but it really only has affected me when I read printed text in large quantities (e.g., when reading a novel). As a result, I have to read every word, deliberately, which naturally slows me down considerably (particularly frustrating when reading a thriller like "The DaVinci Code!") On the other hand, my music reading abilities are quite strong and have NOT been affected by the Dyslexia. In fact, sight-reading is probably my strongest ability as a player. When I auditioned for the White House Marine Orchestra, after the Concerto round, the remainder of the audition was entirely sight-reading (due to the nature of our job). This included orchestral and string quartet literature. Again, this is an area in which I seem to excel, in spite of the Dyslexia. My theory (and it is only a theory--I am NOT an expert in this area) is that reading words is more of a left-brain activity while music is inherently right-brained (although notation has mathematical qualities for sure). Perhaps there are simply different areas of the brain that are stimulated during these activities and Dyslexia only occurs in under specific conditions. Anyone else have a theory? Any doctors or scientists out there? Best, From Sander Marcus
Good discussion and recommendations all. Just let me add a couple of thoughts.Posted on May 9, 2006 at 07:20 PM First of all, this is not an intelligence problem. It is a problem of how information gets into the brain, is interpreted by the brain, and is expressed (if there is a motoric component). It is not a problem of a person's basic ability to reason. It's like a link broken in a chain, rather than something wrong with what's at the end of the chain. If the information gets to your brain in the proper orientation, your brain can process it. Ultimately, dyslexia and learning disability and similar problems are general terms. The specifics of an individual's dyslexia can be very different from the specifics of other individuals. These problems can affect incredibly subtle and specific perceptual-motor skills that are unique in each individual. One person can have an easy time reading words but not numbers, or music but not words, or certain letters but not others. The variations are endless. I once testing a kid whose brain simply did not recognize the number 4, but could read any other single digit number. It gets that specific. Therefore, what you have to do, as much as is humanly possible, is to figure out (or get help figuring out) what the specific deficits are. Trial and error is sometimes the only way. Sometimes a good neuropsych exam is in order; sometimes a good evaluation by an LD specialist. But once you get a line on the specifics, you can design a way of reading or learning or reading music (or whatever) that fits your particular pattern of strengths and weaknesses. Hope that helps. From Peter Wilson
Sandy:Posted on May 9, 2006 at 09:16 PM Fantastic explanation--thank you. It is really fascinating to me how these things occur--and how easily they go undetected. I was pegged as a slacker or underachiever for a very long time because, apparently I tested very high on whatever early testing is done, but then my performance was very poor--particularly where reading was required. Of course, I studied violin and piano from very early ages, so teachers (and my parents) simply were disappointed in me all the time. Finally, a caring teacher (trained in LD) had a hunch about me, and with a little help and understanding, I was able to get above average grades in my later years of high school. I still struggled a bit in college, but at least I could identify with what was going on. Again, thanks for your accessment. -Peter From Sander Marcus
Peter: You are most welcome. Your experience is typical for people with undetected LDs. The fact that it isn't identified properly causes all kinds of problems and misunderstandings. Glad you got a line on it, and look at the difference that makes. Way to go.Posted on May 9, 2006 at 09:34 PM Sandy From Gennady Filimonov
very good points.........Posted on May 9, 2006 at 11:56 PM I would like to add that what helps is a passion for achieving ones goals/dreams. Figuring out the cause and looking for solution(s), is ofcourse useful, but working on making ones dreams a reality should always be the priority #1. Otherwise one becomes a victim of their disorder for the rest of their lives. BTW Bravo and way to go Peter! From Alain Lefebure
Dyslexia (litteraly Dys=difficulty lexia=reading)is frequently related to inhomogeneous brain dominance and abnormal spacial perception. Posted on May 12, 2006 at 01:29 PM A right handed child ,normally kicks a ball with his right foot,aims with his right eye and uses his right ear to listen a soft sound. In dyslexia he would use right hand ,right foot , left eyes,right ear or any such combinations.Futhermore he often mixes up right and left hand.Since the "two brains" are differently involved, time of reaction is slow down and more energy is required; that's why tiredness gets troubles worse. Such pupils need shorter time of intensive work. Sticker on the bow and metronome use are specially useful here.Reading the score from right to left then diagonally from bottom to top ,changing line at each bar , then the score upside down is often useful to detect an associated bad eyes convergence and is a valuable exercice From Kathryn Keyes
Big thanks to Peter, Sandy and Alain. I found this website discussion when searching for dyslexia and music. While I've never been diagnosed with dyslexia (I'm 47) I tried 3 times as a child to take piano lessons and gave up within months because I couldn't read the music (of course everyone thought I was lazy). If I have dyslexia (I think I do in specific forms) it's most pronounced with music, I've gotten by with other minor problems (people think I'm ditsy because I don't know right and left, sometimes misread symbols/signs and sometimes mix up numbers, various other stuff). I'm six weeks into cello lessons (yes I know this is violinist.com but I was desperate because I am already having trouble reading the music. I realized I was reading the numbers (noting fingering in this beginning music book) not the notes. My instructor suggested I white them out and it was like I was back at square one. I relearned the notes but now that we have added two more strings it's getting harder and I'm getting confused easily and can't figure out the notes; with the sudden addition of "slurs, hooks and ties" this last week it was like my brain just stopped. I was progressing nicely and now I look at the page and am utterly confused and wondered what the heck is wrong with me. Your discussion here made me realize I can get through this but I may have to come up with coping mechanisms and elbow grease (i.e., just keep at it). I will continue my search for information but if you have any suggestions that can help me out I would appreciate it. Also any suggestions for getting over the tendonitis (elbow) and severe muscle cramps (forearm) I'm getting in my bow-arm would help. I finally have gotten over the sciatica in both legs from sitting on the edge of a chair... This must be the suffering one must do for their art! :-D Kathryn
Posted on May 24, 2006 at 01:06 AM From Maura Gerety
All this reminds me of is the time my teacher made me play a passage backwards to get it in tune.
Posted on May 24, 2006 at 02:04 AM From Peter Wilson
Keep it up Kathryn!!!Posted on May 24, 2006 at 04:03 AM Best, Peter From Mister Brucie
Kathryn - have you found the Internet Cello Society yet?Posted on May 24, 2006 at 05:15 AM Their "cello chat" forum http://p078.ezboard.com/fcellofuncellochat looks like a good place to ask about this... From Kathryn Keyes
Thanks for the Cello link, I didn't know about that site. I'm still very new to the cello and the strings world so thank you for pointing that out for me. I also see this site has a link to injuries and problems so I will peruse that one too, to pick up help form my muscle woes. Thanks again to you all! Kathryn
Posted on May 24, 2006 at 04:55 PM From Frank Gallagher
I am a semi-professional jazz musician (retired from a career in High Tech). I've suspected that I have dyslexia for some time now, and my experiences on improvising over chord changes seems to confirm that.Posted on October 23, 2007 at 05:14 PM When improvising, I just look at the chords and play something approporate to each chord or set of chords. Ths problem is that I sometimes lose my place in the progression. The music we use shows just the basic melody with chord names above, and no orchestration whatever. When I play along with Band-In-A-Box I never get lost because the curson on the screen moves along with the music, so I always know exactly which chord I'm playing over. When I play just form a chart, however, without the helpful cursor, I seem to get distracted and lose my place. Has anyone had this problem. Comments, solutions, etc., gratefully accepted. It may come down to seeing my physician and going through the full medical route to a specialist, and possibly getting a prescription. Many thanks, Frank
Karen.... where are you?
I did it! It IS possible. It's highly confusing though. Musically, music has been very easy for me, and very natural to interpret, and make music beautiful. All my scales are musical- I can't;really physically I cannot play something 'straight,' it just comes out with some sort of phrasing- half the time I don't realize I'm doing it at all. It comes Dyslexics are given a beautiful and highly unique gift than few others have, but with this unique gift(s) come many curses. Few people can understand us, or relate to us, and this genetic disease is often misunderstood as only a reading disorder. I hated being dyslexic, but now I am glad, and even proud to be one of those who never gave up, but pushed through the hard times, to gain from the never-ending challenge a new sense of passion, persistance, patience, and pride. :)
Dyslexia sucks though! I still have so much trouble reading music .... it may sound stupid, but i get very confused for example, if you have a long repetition of 1/16 notes of the same pitch... it is so frustrating. i find the best way to read music is to print the score big ( no, i don't have any eyes issue). helps a lot. Charles Cook posted this link regarding recent research: It will take you to a documentary about British researchers who feel that there is a "dyslexia myth." Thank you for the link. Dyslexia means different things to different people and sometimes various communication disorders, sensory integration issues, visual convergence issues and visual spatial issues are lumped under the broader use of the term dyslexia. I read a recent study that said dyslexia in reading manifests quite differently in different countries and the severity is based more upon the demands of the language than with a particular persons "dyslexia". So we could both have “dyslexia” but our basic language maps could make mine seem more severe than yours. Add to that the learned helplessness associated with many disabilities and you have a very debilitating situation for some people. This is an excellent document on Dyslexia and the pseudo science that constantly bombards this learning disability. The more I read about dyslexia ,the more confuse I get.I finally found an unbias article that makes a lot of sense. http://thedyslexiacenter.com/Documents/ |
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