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Vuillaume Guarneri vs Strad models

From Samuel Mann
Posted March 5, 2006 at 11:37 PM

There are also other excellent resource books:
Doring's Vuillaume (tabulation)
Millant's Vuillaume book
Stefan-Peter Greiner Vuillaume book
Vuillaume catalogue from the 1998 exhibit in Paris (very informative).

The prices for the "best" examples of such instruments are the same for Strad model and Guarneri models.
He made a little over 3000 instruments.
His third period, the Golden Period, took place during the 1860s.

The violins are generally known for being fairly powerful. The less good ones are maybe on the strident side. The good ones have a big, juicy tone that is good for concerts. A lot of people like them. I'll leave it to others to say if there is really any difference between the Strads ad the Guarneris.

Vuillaume also made some Magini copies that seem to sell for somewhat less than the other two (like $75k or so). Some of these are rather bulky, though I once saw one that was "normal" size.

I should add that I think these are probably pretty good investments. At least they have been over the past few years.

On the amusing side, a year plus ago I saw a Strad model in a West Coast city for $100k. Not long after, I was in NYC and stopped by a dealer and saw a Strad model for $140k. There were (so far as I know) no structural issues with either. So I guess the thing to do is to make an arbitrage profit by buying in CA and selling in NYC.

Jim, Ms. Hahn actually has always used that Vuillaume as her regularly concert instrument, and plans on continuing to do so as far as I know.

As for Vuillaume Strad vs Del Gésu models, I think that the difference is in the playing style required for each instrument, in a similar way to the difference between playing a real Strad and Del Gésu. The Del Gésu models require and will take more bow pressure to sound than the Strad models, and on this continent, where people like to dig in, it makes it more appealing, I think.

The Vuillaumes are good investments, and the good ones are actually a bargain compared to the price one is likely to pay for a comparable Italian instrument. Perhaps there increased popularity will push prices further up, but I think that for now the price/quality ratio is where the appeal is, at least from the player's standpoint.

My own very humble opinion...

Cheers!

You can't possibly be more humble than me. Everyone knows I'm the most humble person ever. I tell myself so daily!

Incidentally, when one tries a superb example of Vuillaume in a Strad model or Del Gesu model, there is hardly any difference (in sound production and quality). His best fiddles in both models sound full bodied and dark sounding with a brilliant E string.

My Vuillaume is the Ex-Garcin "Le Messie" copy and it sounds just as dark if not even a bit darker than Hillary's Del Gesu copy.
And I can dig in as much as I want.

And as for popularity of Vuillaume fiddles, they have been popular since the days of Vuillaume.
Many great artists played and owned Vuillaume instruments including Joseph Joachim, Eugène Ysaÿe, Fritz Kreisler, Isaac Stern, Louis Kauffman, Charles de Bériot, Alard, Sivori played the one Paganini gave him as a present, not to mention the many chamber musicians and orchestral players.

I am glad to see that Vuillaume is much aprreciated and celebrated. He is undoubtedly one of the great masters and major influences in violin history.
Provenance, condition etc. also has much to do with price no matter if it is a Strad or Del Gesu model.
These instruments are absolutely a great investment and they have tripled in price in the last 15 years.

You talked about trading a Fagnola for it... well, you came out with a super deal.

The only thing I don't like about it is that the E isn't as brilliant as I think it can be (needs some adjusting and experimentation on strings.)

I've played numerous other Vuillaumes and consistently enjoyed playing the Guarneri copies/models better, though most of them were quite nice (save a few).

Preston

So the owners are laughing all the way to the bank.

"As the friend and son-in-law of Vuillaume it follows that the violinist assured himself that the instrument should posses qualities commensurate to serve the artistic requirements of his protege, and as one who had first choice of his father-in-law's products, he chose the finest available instrument in his stock. As a token for his regard for Miss Humler, there exists a photograph of Delphin Alard by Moulin of Paris which bears the dedication "Souvenir affectueux a Son elev Humler, par Son Professeur, D. Alard." by Ernest Doring
............................

It is widely known that Vuillaumes favorite instrument ever was the "Le Messie" (Messiah) Strad, which he treasured ever since he bought it from L. Tarisio.
He never parted with it. The Messiah Stradivari was sold only after his death.
His favorite model for making bench copies was the Messiah Strad and then everything else.

I agree. This is more true for Vuillaumes than most other great instruments. Not necessarily a bad thing but jus something you have to be prepared for or get used to.

Preston

What strings do people like to put on Vuillaumes? I've been using Obligato with a Hill E--the complete package might almost be too dark. Recommendations?

-Owen

p.s. Preston, I would love to play your JBV sometime. What year is it?

.............................

BTW, I also meant to mention that Louis Kaufman, among the many recordings that he made, recorded a splendid premier performance of the Barber concerto which he performed on his J.B. Vuillaume Strad copy of the "La Pucelle".

Here is a fascinating article about Kaufman:
"A Fiddler's Tale"
How Hollywood and Vivaldi Discovered Me

this is a cool website

.............................
Among other notable owners of Vuillaume fiddles was Toscha Seidel who owned the copy of Alard Strad 1860. Eugene Ysaye owned two strad copies of J.B. Vuillaume 1827 #49 & 1828 #120.
B. Huberman owned a Strad copy Vuillaume #2209 1856
Isaac Stern owned two Vuillaumes:
the very well known Tzar Nicholas de Russie Strad copy 1840 (decorated with coat of Arms)and a copy of "Stern, Ex-Panette" Del Gesu (Vuillaume 1850).

Yah, for sure! I've liked the sound of your fiddle ever since I heard you guys perform Pierrot Lunaire. I use Dominants on mine (silver D) and a Crystal Corelli E string. I'm trying to find something that brightens up the E string.

Gimme a call or email sometime and we'll swap violins.

Jim, I don't know why it won't play. Sorry, I have no idea what would make it play.

Preston

I'll try it. Thanks for the idea!

Preston

.............................
Anyway, as for examples of the best Vuillaumes, one can see that both models in Strad & Guarneri alike were very popular with the major soloists. In fact in many cases it was the "Le Messie" copies that were more popular among the great artists of the past.

For the most part, Vuillaume numbered his instruments, but the very special instruments which were bench copies, he did not (and left them without number).

For the most part, Vuillaume numbered his instruments, but the very special instruments which were bench copies, he did not (and left them without number).

Gennady, I did not know that about the bench copies. I always wondered why mine did not have a number.

Preston

I misspoke last post. It downloads and plays on both Macs and PCs. I just downloaded it now and it worked. Must be a glitch in your software Jim.

Preston

P.

Neil

Renaming it to *.mp4 causes Quicktime to play it here since that's associated with that extension on my computer. I presume you have a later version of wmp that supports mp4. I had trouble with the newest version so I went back to an earlier one.

What you should do: rename the file to *.mp4 and upload it again to avoid this problem. Better yet, convert it to a genuine mp3 to allow any hardware or software to play it.

NB: The download is hardly worth it. Very out of tune. Don't know why I put it up, I think I intended to put up Shostakovich instead.

I hope no one is suggesting that Vuillaume made all these instruments himself! He may have been busy... administratively........

Regarding the "mini ice age", the same quality wood is available in warmer times. One just harvests a little higher up the mountain.

David Burgess
http://www.burgessviolins.com

In 1828, he set his own business at 46 rue des Petits-Champs and began creating his own models.
His workshop then became the most important in the capital. Within barely twenty years, it became the leading workshop in Europe. A major factor in his success was doubtless his purchase of 144 instruments made by the most celebrated Italian masters, including 24 Stradivari and the famous "Messiah" presently kept at the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford (England), from the heirs of an Italian tradesman named Tarisio, for 80,000 francs in 1855.

Nestor Audinot, a pupil of Sébastien Vuillaume, himself Jean-Baptiste's nephew, succeeded him in his workshop in 1875.

Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume a fine tradesman, maker, restorer, was also a gifted inventor as is demonstrated by his research in collaboration with the acoustics expert Savart. He also invented a viola which he called a "contralto", the "Octobasse", bows with fixed nut and interchangeable hair, and hollow steel bows, particularly appreciated by Charles de Bériot, among others. Other innovations include the insertion of microfilms (!) in the eye of the frogs of his bows, a kind of mute (the "pédale sourdine") and several machines, including one for manufacturing gut strings of perfectly equal thickness.

There is a definitive iconography of Vuillaume due for release this fall, by Sylvette Milliot
"L'histoire de la lutherie parisienne du 18e siècle à 1960" Tom 3 Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume.

...............................................

I am sure everyone is aware that Vuillaume had the greatest makers (of 19th cent.) working & or collaborating in/with his shop including:
Persois, Dominique Peccatte, Guillaume Maline, François-Nicolas Voirin and Joseph Fonclause are among the most celebrated.
In addition to the above-mentioned bow makers, most 19th century Parisian violin makers worked in his workshop, including Hippolyte Silvestre, Jean-Joseph Honoré Derazey, Charles Buthod, Charles-Adolphe Maucotel, Télesphore Barbé and Paul Bailly. The shop turned out over 3,000 instruments during its lifetime.
Vuillaume (for sure) made the best ones himself, and kept his varnish recipe a secret as told by David Laurie in his book "Reminiscences of a Fiddle Dealer".

In 1828, he set his own business at 46 rue des Petits-Champs and began creating his own models.
His workshop then became the most important in the capital. Within barely twenty years, it became the leading workshop in Europe. A major factor in his success was doubtless his purchase of 144 instruments made by the most celebrated Italian masters, including 24 Stradivari and the famous "Messiah" presently kept at the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford (England), from the heirs of an Italian tradesman named Tarisio, for 80,000 francs in 1855.

Nestor Audinot, a pupil of Sébastien Vuillaume, himself Jean-Baptiste's nephew, succeeded him in his workshop in 1875.

Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume a fine tradesman, maker, restorer, was also a gifted inventor as is demonstrated by his research in collaboration with the acoustics expert Savart. He also invented a viola which he called a "contralto", the "Octobasse", bows with fixed nut and interchangeable hair, and hollow steel bows, particularly appreciated by Charles de Bériot, among others. Other innovations include the insertion of microfilms (!) in the eye of the frogs of his bows, a kind of mute (the "pédale sourdine") and several machines, including one for manufacturing gut strings of perfectly equal thickness.

There is a definitive iconography of Vuillaume due for release this fall, by Sylvette Milliot
"L'histoire de la lutherie parisienne du 18e siècle à 1960" Tom 3 Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume.

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