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Beethoven Violin Concerto Favorites...PART II

CD reviews: It seems the previous thread has been archived.

From Brandon C
Posted June 7, 2005 at 04:58 AM

It seems the previous thread has been archived. I would just like to declare Thomas Zehetmair's Beethoven as one of my favorites. I am not sure how you guys feel about period performances, but I would encourage you to pick it up. Beautiful sound, beautiful phrasing. The Romances (on same disc) are equally good.

From D Kurganov
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 06:33 AM

i heard this recording of Mutter playing beethoven violin concerto live back in the 80's and it was out of this world. absolutly perfect

From Phil Houghton
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 08:19 AM

I have a wonderful recording on LP, made in the 1920's by Isolde Menges. I think it may have been the first commercial recording of the piece, but even through all the surface noise it is a great performance. Anyone know if it has ever been reissued on CD?

From Amy F.
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 11:29 AM

Frank Peter Zimmermann's recording is my favorite :)

It's flawless, and beautiful.

From AMADEU SALLES
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 04:00 PM

The most technically and musically accurate performance of the Beethoven violin concerto is without a doubt the ones (more than 6 versions available on the market,most of them live) with David Oistrakh.
Pick anyone and learn!

From Tom Holzman
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 04:07 PM

I agree with Amadeu about Oistrakh.

From Scott 68
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 04:20 PM

I like kyung wha chung's live recording best

From Milstein DeusEst
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 06:19 PM

There are three recordings that I really like:
Milstein, Menuhin/Furtwangler (live), Heifetz.

From Joseph Franke
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 09:54 PM

I like Francescatti/Walter.

From Kevin Jang
Posted on June 7, 2005 at 11:21 PM

I really enjoy the Francescatti recording. I feel that his temperment and bow technique really suit him well. He consistantly keeps the line moving and at the right time, he makes room for nice rubato. For example, the second movement, the decending melodic line to the main theme, is played with such suaveness and style and even puts a small "Kreisler"slide at the end. He never plays too schaltzy but his tone is never bland. I find the recording by F.P. Zimmerman to be too square in style and sound.

I also love the Oistrakh rendition. He adds an element of spirituality that makes him so unique which suits Beethoven's music.

There is a really classy recording by Christian Ferras which I really like too. His tempi are a little slower but he still plays the line without break. His vibrato is very vocal and has a lot of character.

Henryk Szeryng's version is really excellent. He plays with such grace and intellgence. The DVD version from VAI is great.

From Patrick Harris
Posted on June 8, 2005 at 11:08 AM

Hi AMADEU SALLES,

The most "musically accurate" you say?? Would you care to give an explanation of "musical accuracy"?

From AMADEU SALLES
Posted on June 8, 2005 at 04:45 PM

Hi Patrick Harris:
Musical accuracy = Analysis

From Bram Heemskerk
Posted on June 8, 2005 at 09:35 PM

Beethoven is played too often and it is not his best work. I have played it twice as a second violinist in an amateurorchesrta and that's one time or even 2 times too much. His stringkwartetes are much better like op.18.6 Why this silly discussion about a bad piece of a good all round composers, who wrote one bad piece, his violinconcerto. I will never again shall go to a concerthall to listen to it, because there are far more better pieces. When Maxim Vengerov says that: The violinconcerto of Beethoven is the best violinconcerto he knows,then he don't know many violinconcerto's. So I have no favorite. Sorry.

From Tom Holzman
Posted on June 8, 2005 at 09:54 PM

Bram -- I am sorry you do not like the Beethoven concerto, but I do not think it is appropriate to call it a bad piece. Beethoven did write some bad pieces (e.g., Wellington's Victory), but not the concerto. I do not think you will find many others on this site who will agree. It is a great piece. Even concerti I do not particularly like by other famous composers, I would not call bad pieces. Nor do I think you can say that Vengerov does not know any concerti. You may not agree with his views, but he knows a lot, probably more than most people who post here.

From Christina Wilke
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 12:17 AM

I read a fantastic book about the Beethoven Violin Concerto for a music history project I had this last semester. When you start to look at the piece as a whole, it becomes even more incredible. The whole piece, esp. the first movement, could be looked at as being based upon the first four timpani notes. It's simplistic and beautiful, and while I know that many may not like it, I love it.
I just bought Mutter's original recording with von Karajan and Berlin. I also love Perlman's live recording with Berlin from 1986 (correct me if that's wrong).

From Enosh Kofler
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 12:23 AM

I love the Beethoven Violin Concerto and he definitely wrote some stuff that's bad in my opinion and the concerto is definitely not one of them.

From Linus Liu
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 12:41 AM

I beg your pardon. The Beethoven violin concerto is to me the best violin concerto ever written. It could be just bad performance, which I heard, and played with, couple not-so-good out-of-tune soloists. The only thing that can be bad about this concerto is maybe the cadenza I gather. I really open my eyes here. It was the first piece ever I tried to play when I got my first violin!

From Ole Borneman Bull
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 01:43 AM

Whether it's a good or bad concerto is off-topic.
The question was: What performance one likes.

I've heard several good performances of the Beethoven Concerto but prefer, not necessarily in this order:

Kreisler (1936)- Milstein - Francescatti.

Of the several cadenzas, I think the Kreisler's cadenzas best sum up the musical motives. They
are masterpieces in polyphony.

From Keith Loke
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 05:11 AM

I heard the 1955 Oistrakh recording of Beethoven, with the French National Orchestra, on the radio last night. Awesome, breathtaking stuff! You can always count on the likes of Oistrakh for a good showing.

From Adam Wasiel
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 05:24 AM

Kogan did a beautiful version in the mid 50's. Very nice indeed...

From ilya gringolts
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 08:41 AM

I wouldn't start an argument on historic accuracy...people are likely to get all hot and bothered and start pitching things (darting bows) at each other...However, the only musically accurate and valid recording of Beethoven concerto to date is Zehetmair/Brueggen, which also happens to be supremely beautiful. It also happens to be the only one that doesn't put me to sleep by the middle of 1st movement. While it's not perfect by any means, it incorporates some of the tightest and most homogeneous orchestral playing in history, and Zehetmair's phrasing is most sensitive and sensible. Three thunbs up.

From Tom Holzman
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 12:46 PM

Ilya -- do you know whether Zehetmair follows the urtext without deviation? thanks.

From Charlie Caldwell
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 04:45 PM

I have a recording of Heifetz playing the Beethoven Violin Concerto from 1940, which, I really like.

From Scott Hawthorn
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 07:00 PM

From AMADEU SALLES
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 9:33 AM (MST)
>Regarding Bram's post on Beethoven's violin concerto.
I didn't think I would live to read such sad,hopeless and irresponsible words on Beethoven's violin concerto. The concerto that set the standards for all violin concertos,and beyond. The piece of music that inspired (and freightened) all great artists and composers. The most important and outstanding violin concerto ever writen, like it or not. The father of all children.
My guess is: either Bram is way too young or he needs serious counseling.<

While I disagreed with Bram's characterization of the Beethoven Concerto, I want to say two things to you, sir:
1. It is certainly not my favorite (mine is the Brahms). "Greatest," "most oustanding, "most important, "or even "good" is not an objective judgement.
2. I object to your tone and have flagged your post. You have no business saying those personal things about a poster.

Thank You.

From Mike Burrows
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 07:49 PM

This got added to the first string, now archived, so I am repeating it here.

I would appreciate views on the first recording David Oistrakh made for EMI, with Sixten Ehrling and the Stockholm Festival Orchestra - EMI Classics have just issued this as part of a 4CD set "Les Introuvables de David Oistrakh", including sonatas by Beethoven, Franck and Szymanowski, the first concerto by Shostakovich (with Maxim conducting), and Lalo's Symphonie Espagnole. How does this version compare to the ORTF/Cluytens recording, for example? I saw Oistrakh perform this work on British TV around 1964-65 (from the Royal Albert Hall, I think), and have always wanted a CD version by him. However, in the absence of the Cluytens recording it would seem to me that the asking price for this set (£14 on amazon.co.uk) is worth it for the Beethoven and Shostakovich alone.

Incidentally, I think most would agree this is a sublime work, as is the Brahms; however let's hear it for the Triple Concerto, which I think is greatly underated. I have the Oistrakh, Richter & Rostropovitch recording with Karajan - real music-making!

From Scott Hawthorn
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 07:57 PM

From AMADEU SALLES
>1)In this subject,"Beethoven violin concerto", it doesn't really make any difference what you think in the whole context.<

=PLONK=

>2)I respect your musical taste. You are entitled to enjoy and love the violin concertos you choose. Your disregard for the history and the literature behind Beethoven's violin concerto only shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.<

I did not disregard anything. Your superlatives in regards to this concerto were entirely subjective opinion, notwithstanding any historical facts. And again, the reason I objected to, and flagged your post, were the extremely rude and uncalled for comments towards the original poster. I will do it again for your unkind remarks to me. I have lots of patience; shall we keep it up?

From ilya gringolts
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 08:35 PM

Tom - the answer is no. As regards notes on the pages he doesn't deviate. However, as in many other pieces of the period, the bowing marking is rather scarce, and in many instances Beethoven clearly means certain passages to be bowed freely. Zehetmair does just that and the variety of bowings he brings into it helps immensely.

From Scott Hawthorn
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 10:05 PM

From AMADEU SALLES
>Some interesting people who used to visit this site have dropped it altogether. Only now I realize why.<

To set the record straight, "Some interesting people who used to visit this site" were dropped for rudeness. I was not among them.

From Jim W. Miller
Posted on June 9, 2005 at 10:24 PM

They weren't so interesting.

Gringolts has three thumbs! Now that's interesting.

From Kannan Mahadevan
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 02:56 AM

I have heard Oistrakh's live recording of the Beethoven with Kondrashin with the BBC orchestra. It is paired with Mozart's 4th concerto. While I do really respect this recording, his intonation is slightly off in places in the 1st movement, and he takes the 2nd movement surprisingly fast, even moreso than Heifetz. I think Kogan' s recording of this piece with Vandernoot is amazing, but I wish he played the Kreisler cadenzas. Milstein/Steinberg, Francescatti/Walter, Perlman/Giulini and any Menuhin recording are the best for this piece I think.

From Phil Houghton
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 07:43 AM

Ilya, I was wondering if you knew the recording by Viktoria Mullova with John Eliot Gardiner, and if so what you think of it, particularly compared with Zehetmair?

Cheers

From Mattias Eklund
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 08:16 AM

I like the Mullova better. Zehetmair is really good, but I've got a thing for Mullova :)
Nils-Erik Sparf plays it Authentic to. Very interesting recording to say the least. Huggett did a recording too, a nice one but not up to the comparison of the others mentioned.

From ilya gringolts
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 08:24 AM

Mattias, I agree with you on Huggett. As to Mullova's recording, I haven't heard it...The thing is, that after having mounted a pile of various Beethoven concerto recordings, I have finally come across Zehetmair's and "found peace" as it were...I have not the slightest desire to give shots to any others, however narrow-minded my decision might seem:)

From Mattias Eklund
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 10:10 AM

Well, it is your loss :)

I understand that you will play it in Italy next month, any recording plans?

From ilya gringolts
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 10:36 AM

No plans so far...Incidentally, it is precisely because I am reviving the concerto now after not having played it for some 3 years, that I abstain from listening to any recordings however interesting they might be...

From Mattias Eklund
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 10:56 AM

Seems like a good idea.
I presume that you will play it a bit more historically informed than most.
I have listened to your Bach now, and it didn't let me down. perhaps a bit more bite than I thought, and perhaps a bit faster, but I like the overall feel. I believe that this is the future way of playing Bach that you are learning. Did you discover it yourself or did you have a mentor?

I believe that it is great that more and more are getting aware of more historically way of playing, the music really blooms that way, but I hope that you don't play the Beethoven with the violin upside down :)

From Alexandra Soumm
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 01:28 PM

Hello everyone ! i like the Beethoven from Camilla Wicks, a girl that unfortunately not too meny people know... i also also like it from Perlman,but not everything. there is actually no CD where i can definitely say: THIS is IT´. its a pitty.
I'm playing it in the moment, and I dont understand how someone can say that this is a "bad piece"... perhaps thelikings are different,but still...

From Violin T
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 01:49 PM

For me the best is Huberman and Milstein in this concerto.

From Sander Marcus
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 09:26 PM

Having been absolutely captivated by the BVC for over 50 years, I have to say that I have never gotten tired of it. I certainly have my favorites as far as performances, and I like the fact that there are so many different ways to approach it. However, I especially love the Francescatti-Ormandy, which to me is in a class by itself.

But as to the piece itself, it has always seemed to me that the analyses I have read over the years miss the essential "micro-structure" of the first movement.

The 5 drum taps that begin the concerto are indeed 5, not 4. It is that 5th beat that is key. If you consider beats 1-4 as gradually inhaling and increasing tension, the 5th beat releases the tension, such as exhaling.

There is then an overlap, where the 5th beat of one motif becomes simultaneously the 1st beat of the next motif. And if you look at the actual melodies, each part of the melody comes to "rest" on a 5th beat. Therefore, you are constantly juxtaposing the feeling of inhaling and exhaling, which, I believe, is what gives this first movement an endlessly serene quality. Even the passage in which there is dead silence for a measure contains the 5-beat motif. No?

That 5-beat idea is then elongated in some passages and rapid in others, so one is almost always hearing everything in units of 5 beats. The violin provides the ultimate contrast, for there are many passages (such as the solo violin's first introduction) in which you don't really pick up the beat at all. It's almost rhythm-less.

Add to this Beethoven's use of scales and broken chords as melodies, and you get a feeling of endless simplicity, elegance, and complexity at the same time.

Therefore, it is the 5-beat rhythmic motif that gives this movement its iron-clad sense of connectedness, in addition to the over-arching sonata form and so forth. I may be wrong, but that's what I think. I'd like to hear what others think.

Thanks for your attention to this (admittedly) long-winded explanation.

From Bram Heemskerk
Posted on June 10, 2005 at 10:16 PM

I played Beethoven as an amateur second violinist with soloist Frederieke Saeys (second on a national competition) from Holland 1 and ½ year ago for the second time in my life. She played the second part very very slow (and beautiful) and the concert was longer than 45 minutes, because the cassette next to my chair, while playing, was not long enough during the recording. This was the story in the booklet near the concert:
“The violinconcerto of Beethoven was played at its first time by Franz Clement on 23 december 1806. It was composed under timepressure and the soloist had to read it nearly prima visa. Between the first and the second part Clement played a Sonate on one string with his violin turned around. Beethoven didn’t like that and he dedicated his violinconcerto to his youthfriend Stephan von Breuning. In the beginning the violinconconcerto was not a great success. Violinists complained that it was unplayable, because of the artistic curiosities (often high positions and short bowing). Music reviewers said that the piece was too long. Johann Möser (you are a great guy Möser, I also have your opinion today, BH), a big reviewer of that time wrote: ‘… the opinion of all specialists is the same. While they admit that the piece has some beautiful parts, the cohesion is often complete disturbed, and the endless repeats of some every- day-passages easily can lead to boredom.’
Beethoven violinconcerto has been played only 6!! times in the first 20 years of its existence. This changed after 1844 when Joseph Joachim played it with Mendelssohn as conductor in London.”
By the way, Joseph Joachim also wrote 3 violinconcerto’s. The first has never been recorded, the third by Takako Nishizaki for Naxos, and the beautiful second (I thinks a better piece than Beethoven violinconcerto) op.11 “in Hungarian style” has been played by Aaron Rosand, Rachel Barton and Elmar Oliveira.
3 hours ago I played with Pei Pei Zhu violinconcerto ‘Symfonie Espagnole’ from Eduourd Lalo with a amateurorchestra. Again I made a recoding on a cassetterecorder next to my chair. I played it back home on my autoradio: GREAT PIECE, GREAT SOLOIST!!. E. Lalo also wrote violinconcerto op.20 in F major and (violin)Concerto Russe op.29 (both pieces recorded by Olivier Charlier for Chandos), also big pieces, you seldom hear unfortunately.

From Rosalind Porter
Posted on July 25, 2008 at 08:15 PM

Apologies for digging up an old thread - but probably better than starting a new one! Couple of questions now that I've just got this amazing concerto as my new study assignment...

On the first archived Beethoven Violin Concerto thread, several posters mention a second recording by Huberman with Leo Bazin(?) conducting from 1944. I've got the 1934 recording with Szell and love it to bits and would love to get this later version too. Is it available on CD anywhere? I've done a quick search and it doesn't show up, though that could just be me being inefficient!

Second question: Anyone want to suggest their favourite DVD performance of Beethoven's Violin Concerto?

From Joe Pasillas
Posted on July 25, 2008 at 09:14 PM

CD: The Itzhak Perlman (Violin); Conductor: Carlo Giulini version from the early 1980's on ANGEL or remastered (CD) on EMI. I actually like the remasterd version better. I came to be with this Beethoven. I wore out 3 vinyl copies and 3 CDs (later on) until the current CD I have for my traveling and the remastered I have for home. (can you say OCD?)

DVD: Anne Sophie Mutter Herbert Von Karajan

From Sander Marcus
Posted on July 26, 2008 at 11:33 PM

I've said this elsewhere, but I saw Oistrakh perform the Beethoven on 3 separate occasions in the 1960's. As I recall, all of the performances were a little different, but all outstandingly beautiful and moving, from every point of view. The Ehrling recording is, I think, the best from a number of great, great Oistrakh recordings (especially the early one in Russia, the one with the bad sound, but I forgot who the conductor was)

But my favorite is still the Francescatti/Ormandy. It's got something special, and I understand it was recorded in one take, which is one of the things that may give it it's special quality. The orchestra is great, too.

As I indicated on a previous post on this discussion: If you like breathing, and if you like music, and if you like the violin, then you love the Beethoven Violin Concerto. Period.

From Daniel Orenstein
Posted on July 27, 2008 at 09:16 AM

Rosalind: the Huberman-Barzin 1944 recording has been issued by Arbiter in 98, should be easy to get in the US.

Best DVD: hard to make a choice, you can get Kogan, Oistrach, Szeryng, Francescatti and a lot more... I like the Kogan a lot, though!!

Sander: Oistrach recordings: do you know the one under Abendroth (live in Berlin)? comes close to the ideal conductor (Furtwängler)in Oistrach's opinion.

From Sander Marcus
Posted on July 27, 2008 at 04:00 PM

Daniel: I;'ve heard most of them, but am not familiar with the Abendroth. By the way, Oistrakh's voluminous tone on his recordings was not just an engineering trick. That's the way he actually sounded in the concert hall.
Regards, Sandy

From Alan Wittert
Posted on July 29, 2008 at 06:47 PM

I have the Huberman/Barzin recording and find it far more a spontaneous and enjoyable than the Huberman/Szell recording. Huberman and Szell did not get along and to me...it shows.

From oliviu dorian constantinescu
Posted on January 29, 2010 at 10:53 PM

Try Szeryng with the "George Enescu" philharmonic orchestra back in the 60's at the "Enescu" festival in Bucharest.

Or you might as well try the London version of him.

From Sander Marcus
Posted on January 30, 2010 at 11:03 PM

I'm looking back on this discussion that began years ago, and I think that I stand by my own comments made years ago, both about the piece and about the performances. Some things just don't change. I'd go so far as to say that the Beethoven Violin Concerto is one of the great artistic achievements of Western civilization.
Sandy

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