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If the Jay Haide anccient model violin a good violin?

Instruments: I was looking for this violin in the web but I din't find many describtion about it. Have you tried it? How it sound? How is the external appereance?

From keren Ocasio
Posted April 8, 2005 at 07:09 AM

Keren: A student of mine bought a Guarneri model Haide. Appearance wise, it's fine with Ebony fittings. But, it is a really nice fiddle with a good full rich sound. It was better then violin 3 to 4 times the prices, so I told her to get it. Don't pay more for less sound I told her. I think that with any violins, the quality can vary greatly, so it is best to try the instrument out. I heard there is also a Strad model, but I don't know anything about that one.

Cheers!

< a href="http://www.yourwebsitehere.com">what you want to call the site goes here< /a >

Get rid of the spaces near the letter 'a' but leave the one space before href.

Who took my frog? Who found my frog?

P.S. No, don't leave anything off.

AHA! Thanks.

Good antiquing - very good value. Better than many at 3 or 4 times the price.

gc

But, the luthier that explained this to me said the net result is the instrument loses tone quality after a few years.

So, I am staying away from the Jay Haide for now.

I ended up buying the strad version which had the darkest sound, but that's just my preference. All of the Haide's made the dozen other violins I tried under $6,000 sound shrill and weak.

The idea that the top is thinner and weaker is completely unsubstantiated, especially given how easy it is for a luthier to measure thickness. If someone wants to actually measure one and compare it to a survey of more expensive violins *then* I would believe it.

 I had the great opportunity to play at least 70 Jay Haide instruments at Robert Cauer Violins last week.  This was done due to my search for an inexpensive instrument that sounded similar to my venerable Cappa and/or S. Klotz violins because I wanted something less expensive that I could feel safe with doing outdoor playing etc.  After a few days of going back and forth and actually playing some really nice Italian instruments at the shop, I was amazed at the tone and consistency of the Haide violins there.  I took a couple of them home to try out along with a few nice older German and Italian instruments.  I asked my musician friends to listen to the sound when I played and it was an amazing thing that all of them preferred the Haide to ANYTHING in my collection!  It played very strong and quite loud with great projection.  But better still was that I could play really soft passages letting the bow's weight alone control the tone and it never sounded washed out or "fuzzy".  

Anyone reading this should know that I'm SUPER picky where sound quality is concerned, and I have to say that the Haide I picked out was a "have to have" instrument!  Amazing what's going on in the Chinese instruments today vs. 5 or so years ago!

Hi,

i'm Luca, from Rome and play violin. This is really a fantastic instrument! Time ago I buy a Jay Haide instrument , a l'acienne, Guadagnini model. The sound of this violin is great!  I think in this range of price (and more....) the Jay Haide l'acienne is the "king"...!

I tried a Jay Haide instrument yesterday.  I don't know which model it was, but this thread is making me think I should try again.  I thought it was the best-sounding one in the price range I was looking for (under $2500), but at least the one I tried was not visually appealing to me at all. 

The salesperson told me that the makers had studied the wear patterns on good, old violins, and were replicating those patterns with the antiquing and the way they applied the varnish.  In principle, I like and respect that approach.  It's a nice blend of art and science.  And with the way the instrument sounded, they seem to be doing something right.  

And yet, unfortunately, that particular violin at least looked like it had spent the last 50 years in the back of someone's garage.  I've been sitting here debating internally whether to type the word "ugly" or not, because the sound is anything but.  It's a surprisingly vexing dilemma.

Karen, I have had the same dilemma.  I was trying some instruments awhile ago and found one I really liked the sound and playability of, it's price was $8,000.00.  However, even if I had been willing to spend that kind of cash I wouldn't have bought that violin because it was plain ugly.  The maker, imho, had ruined the instrument by 'antiquing' it.  It was a shame because my teacher even favored it but a musician has to retain their self respect and who wants to be seen playing an ugly instrument let alone paying that kind of money for one.   I do know the violin is still unsold so other buyers must have the same feelings towards its appearance.

I don't like the antiqueing that makers of new instruments feel is necessary to make an instrument sell.  

I don't really get the point of antiqueing string instruments.  After all, Strads and del Gesus would have looked spanking new when they were made.  I've seen a few ghastly modern antiqued violins too and in one particular case it was obvious the instrument would have been absolutely stunning if only the maker had left it "unsullied".   Obviously there must be a consumer demand for antiqued instruments but I think if I was a luthier I'd feel a bit unhappy about doing that type of work.

This thread has piqued my interest in these violins.  Can anyone give information on the difference between the Jay Haide models and the 'special models' made with european woods?

I've been playing a J-H (a Guarnerius model) for about a year now and really like the instrument, which stood out from many others I tried in this price range in terms of projection, tone quality, and predictable, even response. I share Tess's and Karen's misgivings about antiquing violins, which simply seems silly to me, and I had to overcome my aversion in order to give the J-H a fair trial. They really take the process to the extreme with these instruments: mine, for example, in addition to the "wear" on the varnish, has a small plug of wood glued into an edge, as if a major ding had been fixed, and deliberate rounding of the sharp edges of the scroll. Happily, it appears they put the same care into all other aspects of the construction of these instruments: mine, for example, has nice touches like a half-dozen rectangular "buttons" reinforcing the back seam inside and a lower rib that is either one piece, or cunningly finished to look like one piece, all around the bottom of the instrument. The varnish is notable, too, for its resistance to nicks.

If you're not buying one of these fiddles solely because of an aversion to "ugly" antiquing, you might ask yourself how  you'd feel about a nice instrument that was ugly in some other way -- a color you don't like, a clunky scroll, or genuine varnish wear from being old. Most string players prioritize tonal and playing characteristics over appearance; it seems inconsistent to single out fake antiquing as a special form of deal-killing ugliness. It's not that I have come to like the antiquing on my J-H. I've just learned to ignore it, 'cuz the thing plays better than I have any right to expect from a shop-made fiddle.

Violinists saying they don't like antiquing will warm the hearts of many makers who themselves prefer that a new violin be allowed to 'speak', visually, for itself without a costume.

But it is rash to make blanket judgments about antiquing.  Good antiquing is a fine craft with its own set of values.  It is a valid response to the widely valued appearance of old instruments, whether one likes it or not.

Not so good antiquing, well, that's just unfortunate.  :-| 

Oh, and plenty of players have not purchased new instruments they liked because they looked too new.  Being affected by the appearance of something you use as a daily tool is surely also valid even if it is not quite perfectly practical.  ;-)

Matt, that's exactly what I mean by "maybe I should try again."  Maybe I can get over my aversion to the looks of the instrument because its sound was impressive.  Or maybe I can find another Jay Haide that looks better, to me, than the one I tried.  

But I will say that I don't single out fake antiquing as a unique harbinger of deal-breaking ugliness.  When I was buying my viola, I also had the option of buying my rental viola, which would have been very cost-effective because I could have doubled my rental credit.  And its sound was pretty nice, when I closed my eyes.  But it was dinged up because it was a rental viola--no fake antiquing there, just garden-variety rental dinginess.  And I decided to spend more to get something new that sounded to me just as nice, but in addition was also beautiful (which meant to me, among other things, shiny and smooth and symmetrical, and a nice color).  Something that I would enjoy looking at when I got it out of the case.  Like Andres said, I'm affected by the appearance of something I use daily.  If it's ugly, I won't practice it as much.  I'm not defending that at all, just noting it.

Which is not to say you don't have valid points.  As I said, very vexing.

The unfortunate fact is that it's very hard to sell a new, un-antiqued violin. It can be done, but many makers wonder why they should sell "uphill" by selling new-looking violins when so few people want them, and  antiqued ones sell better.

I rented a Jay Haide viola for a few months. I would like to buy one. The sound was outstanding for the price. I personally like the appearance of the instruments as well.

My Jay Haide à l'ancienne guarneri model looks okay IMO. But I still prefer the look for a flamed no showing of wear on the instrument like on my Eastman VL305. THe Jay Haide sounds fantastic. I had the instrument for about 1 1/2 years now. Visually I wouldn't buy another one since those Ebony fittings and all those scratches especially on the back like the half the body. But it sounds good so that's all that matters for now. With pernambuco fittings my violin looks more visually appealing now then with plain ebony.

I agree that there is good antiquing and bad.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  But I have not seen a newly made-antiqued-to-appear-old violin have the same sense of beauty about it as an instrument that is say 75 years old and has varnish wear and some dings.

It's the overly done/badly done antiquing such as was the case with the $8k violin.  It was just plain tacky.  The back of the instrument was beautiful even with the cosmetic alterations.  I assumed the maker antiqued the top first, and then got better when he did the back.  ;-)

For the past 10 months I have been playing a Jay Haide, La'annciene Tomaso Balestrieri model.  I purchased the instrument on a trial basis, and when I first removed it from its shipping box, I was a little disappointed with its appearance.  Then I played it.

Perhaps because it has such a nice tone (even and clear), and is so responsive, I even think it looks better. 

Not that it really matters, but mine is a 7/8ths size, which is how it got my attention initially.

The a l'ancienne (I have a Tomasso Balestrieri version made in 08) was a tough buy for me too -- for a lot of the reasons stated here and here.  I finally settled on it because it was simply the best all around sounding violin I could get in my budget.

I think that had I not been able to go to Ifshin and immerse myself in dozens of a l'ancienne models, I would probably have skipped it for a violin with a more traditional "new" appearance.  I couldn't buy one with what I will affectionately refer  to as a trashed back.  Some of them look like they'd been dragged behind a mule for a few miles prior to being finished at the luthier's...

Once I found a few (only four in the collection that I could find) that didn't have that trashy back, I found the one with the best sound.  I clicked with one violin right away and bought it after a 5 day trial.

My experience at Ifshin was awesome.  They knew they were selling over my budget and they really helped me out -- gave me an almost-new Bobelock case for free (had been used for rentals in their shop), Haide Lin himself rehaired my favorite bow while I waited (during my lunch hour).  Sat and watched some of his students making a cello.  It was really a pleasant day and I couldn't be happier with the purchase.

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