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Sight Reading!Practicing: How is the best way to learn the notes I am playing in upper positions.From Taylor Perry
From Jim W. Miller
The main thing is not to give up after 15 minutes. I would get a book that has some exercises in 3rd, 5th, and 7th position without changing position and read and play them until they were right, being careful to not just play them by ear after a while. I think the Schradieck book has them but I can't remember for sure. First I might draw a chart of the notes in 3rd, 5th, and 7th position on a piece of paper, just to help my memory till I transfered it over to the exercises. You wouldn't want to refer to the chart, but writing helps your memory. Later you would want to learn 4th and 6th, but those three will get you up and back down. Posted on March 31, 2005 at 06:05 AM Then for advanced sight reading even in 1st position being in an orchestra is good practice because you always have some new challenge to sight read. In the orchestra if you can't read some part, take it home and practice it till you can read and play it. You can do it without an orchestra too. Just read everything you can find and for the upper positions transpose everything up an octave in your head if you have to. From Inge S
One of the first things I figured out when confronting reading is that fingering and the fingerboard are two distinct things. I.e. when you put your third finger down on the A string in 1st position, the note your playing will be D. So you might associate "3rd finger = D" and that's fine .... until you're in a different position. But when you put your finger down, you put it down on a SPOT. Consider that the "address" where "D" lives. No matter what finger you use to press on that spot, you'll always get a D. It seems so obviou and it should be obvious, but it's easy to miss the point. If you shift your attention from which finger is playing which note, and focus on the SPOT on the fingerboard that note is located, then you have made a huge change in your entire outlook. Then, when you are shifting into third position, you haven't done anything dramatically new. You haven't changed anything, because D still lives on that same spot but you're touching that spot, the "D-address" with a different finger. And since our notes are alphabetically, you know your fingers on the string will now give you DEFG, or DEF#G etc.Posted on March 31, 2005 at 08:22 AM So that's one problem out of the way. But it sounds like you've done something to in a different way I've been guilty of - not really knowing what notes you are playing. That simply takes stubborn discipline. Train yourself to start knowing the names. Give yourself 15 minutes at the start of every practice session and maybe 15 minutes at the end again, and during that time name every note you are playing. Challenge yourself to find every G on every string in any position you can think of. If you have a good ear (and if you've been playing without knowing the name of the notes you're playing then something has to be guiding you) then you will be able to recognize that note in all its octaves. You're trying to train your mind to perceive things in a new way, and new perceptions tire the mind very quickly. There is actually a physical reason for this which is why I'm suggesting 15 minutes. Your ability to recognize notes will be cumulative. In a week or two you might start noticing a difference. I've actually resorted to pencil and paper and worked away from the violin to get myself to start recognizing notes and note names. On the violin the mind simply jumps too quickly to the tone it hears and the connection simply isn't made. There is a parallel thread to this one that is also discussing reading and note recognition. A few ideas have been bandied about over there as well. By the way - what do you mean by "black note"? From James Kim
I'm told that I'm a good sight-reader, and I can tell you that I did no special exercises. However, I do have a tremendous curiosity for learning new music, which leads to reading through a lot of music. This will be very helpful in recognizing patterns- this is critical. So while it sounds very simple, in this case, the answer is to get your hands on as much music as possible and PLAY. More specifically, start with music which is slightly below what you could play after serious study, then work your way up.
Posted on March 31, 2005 at 03:09 PM From Preston Hawes
Bring your entire hand along for the shift, and don't change it's shape. So for a very simple example that applies to all shifting motions up to the body of the violin (approx 5th pos): If your 1st finger is on a B in first position on the A string and you sift to 3rd postion and need to play an F#, bring your 1st finger along to D on the A string and plunk down your 3rd finger onto F#. Posted on March 31, 2005 at 04:28 PM Always shift with the finger you used last. For example, if in first position like in the situation above but you are playing a D with your third finger, and want to play an E in 3rd position with your 2nd finger, practice shifting with your 3rd finger to an F# (sound it lightly), and then play the E with your 2nd finger all the while fingering the old D with your first finger (see, it needs to come along for the shift too). For positions that are higher, bring along your first finger too (even if your hand shape changes because your hand can't go beyond the body of the violin). Know what note your first finger is on in upper positions. All this to say that if you organize your shift in such a way, it will organize you knowledge of where you are on the fingerboard and it will become much easier to memorize what note is what on all those leger lines. And even if you forget what note you are playing, you will have practiced the shift properly so that your hand "knows" the note and knows the notes under it (if your first finger came along with the shift). This way your sight reading will vastly improve and your knowledge of what note you are playing will become easier as you can relate it to your first finger. This also will improve intonation. Preston From Inge S
"Always shift with the finger you used last."Posted on March 31, 2005 at 04:51 PM When you get into the mechanics, Preston, you are moving into my weak area. I'm doing a lot more pieces and studies involving a variety of shifting patterns. And the above always sets up a certain confusion in me between what seems to work and what is supposed to happen. The scenario is this. I'm in third position, and I'm playing something descending like G F# E D C#. The D is played with the first finger in 3rd position. For whatever reason in this imaginary series of notes, my C# is to be played in 1st position with the 3rd finger. The last finger I used was my 1st. According to the rule, "Always shift with the finger you used last." I would take the weight off my first finger, shift down to first position while (doing what with my first finger? It's my hand that's doing the moving and the first finger is what, the 'note feeling thingy'? What does "shifting on" a finger mean anyway?) and I guess do a quick feel of the E that I am NOT going to play in order to bring my 3rd finger down onto the C#. But I'm not playing the E. I have no interest in the E. What exactly am I doing with that first finger when I'm "shifting on it"? My perception while playing brings me into an entirely different direction. I've just played D with the first finger. My next note is C# with the third finger in 1st position. That C# is a next door neighbour to the D, only a half step away the width of my fingertip more or less. I know exactly where that C# lives because it's so close to the D I'm playing while I'm anticipating going to the C#. So the mechanism that happens with me is that my hand does the smooth slide along the side of the neck while my third finger, keeping the hand shape during the slide, is aiming for the moment that it will be hovering over that spot beside the D that I have just left with the memory very fresh from the millisecond that my first finger abandoned the spot, and then my third finger presses the desired C#. My first finger is nowhere in the picture. At the moment of playing my C# I settle my hand by finding my way to the first finger's E. And what I'm doing is creating the hand distance from 1st to 3rd finger that I will need for playing any other notes in that position. I suppose that's what the "last finger used" rule is about. Or is it? So what is the "last finger used" rule about? What does it give you and how do you use it? There has to be a mechanism there that I'm missing. To me the whole feeling of settling on the first finger before playing the third in the scenario I described has the feeling of driving to my house, past my house, and then doubling back again so I can go up my driveway. Why pass the house? From Christina C.
James (& anyone else who sight-reads well):Posted on March 31, 2005 at 08:47 PM How much does reading ahead factor into Do you read ahead less when the music is more familiar? Sight-reading is something that I really want to improve so I try to incorporate sight-reading practice into each & every practice session. Reading ahead seems to be the aspect that’s hardest to develop. From Owen Sutter
obviously you have to read ahead a bit, but sight reading is really just raeding the pattern rather than the individual notes. much like you read a sentence, you dont look at each letter and spell out the word. you dont even look at individual words really, you see? you see patterns you recognize and your brain sorts it into a coherent (sometimes) sentence. Its much the same with sight reading, and while practice does help, especially learning odd patterns (dont opus 35 is good for this), i think it really just comes with time and lots of playing experience.
Posted on March 31, 2005 at 08:57 PM From Rick Basil
I aggree with Owen. Much of the sight reading excerpts(and really all pieces in general) are based upon scales and arpeggios. That is why I think it's SO very important to memorize and practice them everyday, this will help your sight reading very much. Also try doing some of the Sitt etudes, in the upper positions, this will help gain left hand facility.
Posted on April 2, 2005 at 10:26 PM From Inge S
I disagree with the idea of patterns if that's ALL you do. I fooled myself for a year thinking that I was sight reading when for a large amount of the time I was "pattern reading". There is a poing where you need to know that that note over there is an F, and where that F will be located for your fingers. Or at least to recognize intervals and know how the intervals figure on the fingerboard across the strings (along a string is easy). I've "memorized" arpeggios and scales. That is to say I can play a whole pile of them. I can even play them in a position that I've never done before and never miss a beat, and that's very handy. But also realizing that when I've shifted into third position it's a really handy thing to know that my first finger will be hitting (and you see - I still have to stop and think about it) an A or its semitone neighbours up or down. I can't imagine, though that one can do that for ALL the positions. I mean, does one, way up on the fingerboard?
Posted on April 3, 2005 at 12:07 AM From Owen Sutter
i'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, maybe im just too tired.
Posted on April 3, 2005 at 07:01 PM From Inge S
Never mind, Owen, maybe I was equally tired when I wrote it. Just pointing out that patterns alone are not enough for reading music. You obviously don't name every note as you go along, and that's where the patterns come in, but you also need to make sure you are READING the music. As a person who naturally plays by ear and sight reads in the manner of a vocalist, it's all too easy to go along thinking I'm reading when I haven't a clue about the notes I'm playing. Yet to all and sundry, they sound correct ... as long as there isn't a sudden deviation to something unexpected where you DO need to know and find the note. Note recognition is also important both on the page and the fingerboard, isn't it?
Posted on April 3, 2005 at 10:33 PM From Rita Livs
I'd suggest sight singing. And practice singing different intervals, diatonic and chromatic, down and up, in a cerain key and just from any note. And name notes while singing. Ask somebody to play intervals on the piano and try to name them. Posted on April 3, 2005 at 10:46 PM Play scales and arpeggios (with inversions) in one position looking through music and listen how each note (finger!) sounds. Train yourself until you are able to open any music on any page and it "sounds" for you while you are just looking at this page. From Inge S
Name them solmized or note-named, Rita? My sight singing is too strong. I was caught out during my lesson again a few weeks ago where I sight read and played together with my teacher. The piece "sang" itself for me. I knew exactly what it should sound like but I was in umpteenth position and had no idea of a sudden where to find the sounds I was hearing, and it was PRECISELY at the point where the melody was playing itself the most spontaneously in my ear. I had to turn off the spontaneity, look at the notes as notes, stop, become analytical, tell myself "you're in x position over here and in y position over here" and then reading started to work for me again. I am on purpose slowing myself down and dropping spontaneity in order to gain some extra control in the long run. Does anyone else have that reverse problem?
Posted on April 3, 2005 at 11:18 PM From Rita Livs
Inge, It is just perfect. So you know HOW your music should be sounded. Now the only what you need is sharpening your feeling of position. If you play something, for example, in 3rd position, set your goal on hitting without mistake some note (every practice time choose a different note); for example, say yourself, "all F#s (1st octave) I meet in music, I play with my 4th finger on G string". So, in two weeks maximum you sight read in 3rd position without any problem ('maximum' is because while you will think about this one note to hit it ontime with right finger, you will play another notes, even making mistakes, your fingers will soon remember their place).Posted on April 4, 2005 at 01:57 AM About singing, if you know 'fixed do' system, it doesn't matter, you name notes, or use solmisation. From Preston Hawes
Inge,Posted on April 4, 2005 at 03:22 AM In your scenario, why are you playing C# with your third finger? If you are playing (in 3rd position on the A string where you play G =4th finger, then F# =third finger, then E=2nd finger, then D=1st finger) you want to play the next note (the C#) in first position, which means you would be using your 2nd finger, NOT your third finger. Yes, you should shift with the last finger you used. In this case, your first finger. It will seem like "driving past the house" but what it is doing is maintaining the shape of your hand. In practice, you should audibly shift down with your first finger, sound the B (1st finger on A string) and then play the C# with your 2nd finger. Say you wanted to shift to first position ealier so you could play the D with your 3rd finger in 1st position. You would shift with the last finger you used (the 2nd finger playing the E in third position). Shift down with your 2nd finger to a C# in first position and then plunk down your 3rd finger to play the D. This is the concept of shifting with the last finger you used. Hope this makes sense, Preston From Inge S
Rita, I think that maybe I'm expecting that everybody always knows the name of the note they're playing at any given time, and so should I .... and maybe I don't have to after all. I've had the "feeling of position" for quite some time - it's just the odd stray note I'm missing. That little trick of the "F#" or any other note you mentioned should do it. Probably just doing a lot of sight reading and other practice in the various positions should help. That's what I'm doing now and the notes are "just there" after a while.Posted on April 4, 2005 at 04:57 AM Preston, thanks for the explanation. So the purpose is to maintain hand shape? But when I shift down, my hand keeps its shape - I can't think of why I would change its shape while I'm shifting up or down, except for positions above 3rd ... but I think I get what you're saying. (The fact that I wrote the wrong note name just prooves how much I'm still into movable do solfege.) I seem to remember quite a while back that there was a bit of a debate going on about the question of shifting on the last finger played - not everybody did so and it depended on the circumstance. But everyone was in agreement, I think, that in the beginning that's how it's taught. I have a better understanding of why now. This week I looked at two versions of the same Wohlfahrt study. The shifting was indicated at different points in the two versions. When I looked at the versions, I saw that in one of the versions it seemed to be a bit easier "physically" because the shift was onto the first finger, but the shift occurred in the middle of a slur which I think could not have been done without the shift being at least a bit audible. The other version's shift occurred on other fingers but always at the beginning of a bow change and I guess that the whole point was for the shift to be inaudible. After tonight's practice I think I'm back into the shoulder rest controversy. The greatest detriment to my shifting and half a dozen other things lies in having become glued to the rest again. One flat pillow and no rest, and shifting, intonation, and tone quality, especially tone quality, are back. From James Kim
Christina, I believe there are a few sight-reading books out there which have passages which are commonly-used. A good exercise is to listen to a recording of a work, such as Mozart and Beethoven, enough times to know the tunes and the general length of the notes. That way you can get the sight-"counting" part and the general unfamiliarity of new melodies, and focus more on the notes.Posted on April 22, 2005 at 05:38 PM Of course, I know plenty of incredible players who don't read very well, but compensate by having excellent memories (which I completely lack) due to their discipline in learning pieces thoroughly. |
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