News by E-mail

Alto Clef, Is it possible?

Teaching: Please, any tips on learning alto clef after treble, thx!

From Justin S
Posted February 26, 2005 at 06:06 AM

Hello, I just happened to stumble across this site while searching for tips on working with alto clef. I play at my school Orchestra, a School Quartet and an after school chamber group on Fridays through my private teacher. We would like to play a particular song in our group and need a violist and I offered to work on the song (we do have a member, including the teacher, who has played viola but they would rather not) I have always been interested in broadening my knowledge of other intruments and would like to start with viola (BTW I play violin) I have heard that it is not as difficult as others because of the fact that middle C is smack-dab in the middle. I would like any tips anyone can offer before I go on with my trek, thank you very much and happu music making!

From James Ray
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 06:27 AM

Way to go for braving new worlds! Trying to decipher alto clef in the beginning gave was rather frustrating--I was so used to the good ol' treble clef from violin and had only recently begun to get the hang of the bass clef from piano. Some things I've found most helpful things to think about when learning new clef's (tenor's a kick too--look into it!) are...

First, pick some landmark notes. As you're aware, Middle C--i.e., 3rd finger on the G string in 1st pos. is in the middle of the staff--good to know. Another thing I'd to is know what the open strings look like--as you know from violin, those are invaluable as quick references. After this, it becomes a fill-in-the-blanks game.

Second, DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT try to learn a clef by transposition. I tried it that way, many people I know do. It works as a temporary crutch, sure, but it doesn't ensure permanence, and your response time will be delayed in practice; when you see a quarter note on line 3, you'll think "on violin it's a B; viola is one note up, so it's a C..." that's not even considering the octave difference. It'll be much simpler to avoid this two-step (3 with figuring out the octave difference) process but just learning each pitch for what it is. Middle line. It's a C, on the G string, of course. End of story. It's rather painful at first, but it'll get easier, almost as 2nd-nature-like as treble.

I hope this helps! And, again, kudos for challenging yourself!

From Kelsey Z.
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 06:50 AM

When playing in first position on the viola, you can read the notes as if they were in third position on the violin! That helped me tons when I first started playing the viola. Also, the notes are just one note above what the actual note is (what looks like a C in treble is a B in the alto clef - one octave difference) and that helped me a lot. Just read it as much as you can, and you'll get it!

From Preston Hawes
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 08:06 AM

Kelsey, that is NOT a good approach. I did this for one summer and it did not stick. If you are reading a clef by transposing you are not reading the clef.

Just learn to read the clef. Take the time and effort and it'll become ingrained in your mind just like the treble clef.

Preston

From Wenhao Sun
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 08:56 AM

I use kelsey's approach, and I think it works very very well. There's nothing wrong with it, just a lot of practicing in it gets it ingrained in your memory. Also, I believe there is another post on this topic from a while ago... check around, there should be some more stuff there if you're interested.

From Tommy Atkinson
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 11:40 AM

do a lot of sightreading! i learned alto clef really well one summer in sort of a "sink or swim" sightreading situation with an orchestra... it really works!

From Katie Bailey Waller
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 02:17 PM

You're very smart to take up the viola, Justin! Orchestras.. and quartets... AND colleges are always looking for good violists!
I used Kelsey's method of learning to play the viola when I switched in jr. high school (100 years ago :) And it worked... for a time. However... at some point (sooner is better) you need to really LEARN the alto clef at it relates to the viola. So... might as well start right off learning the notes. You're right... the middle C center between staffs helps! Go for it!
Katie

From Christopher C
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 03:55 PM

Good violists? What're those?

From Inge S
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 04:46 PM

I can introduce you to one. Why do violists get that reputation, anyway?

From Sara Bull
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 04:52 PM

It helps to remember that your brain is forming new chemical pathways, and that the pathways for immediate memory are different from those for long-term memory. If you just read the clef once a day or so, it will take longer to learn it. To learn alto clef efficiently, keep some music with you throughout the day, and say the notes for a couple of minutes every few hours when you get a chance--it will prod your brain to start transferring information over from an immediate memory pathway to a long-term pathway. You don't have to play your instrument while you do this. When you do play, say the notes out loud, at least the first time through. Don't be suprised when your brain suddenly switches to treble in the middle of a piece, just mentally shake it off and go back to alto clef. It also helps to read alto clef for a minute or so before you fall asleep at night. Good luck!

From Kelsey Z.
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 05:01 PM

Preston,

I only used this approach to become familiar with the clef. When I started viola I was thrown in the same day with chamber ensembles and an orchestra (it was at a music camp) and I found it helped to get me be able to actually play and after that I started playing viola quite seriously and started getting together with a chamber group once or twice a month, as well as I did some solo performing. The third position trick is good if you get frustrated, but I wasn't meaning it was a way to always read the notes. I can read alto clef fine now, and that method for starting out (which was reccomended to me by another violist) saved my butt when it came to the end of the week and we had concerts to do.

Nothing makes up for being able to read the clef as it is. I'm able to play fine in alto clef (no transposing or anything), it's as natural for me as the treble clef.

From Preston Hawes
Posted on February 26, 2005 at 08:25 PM

LOL! I had the same experience, but I know that the next time I pick up the viola, I'm going to have to retrain myself (since I can solfedge the clef I can play it fine on violin, but it'll be difficult playing it on the viola with the different string set up).

Yes, the transposition thing does get you out of a bind (and as such should only be used in emergency situations), but it's not a good thing to continue reading in transposition as you will have more difficulty learning the clef.

Kudos on playing both! I admire that.

Preston

From Justin S
Posted on February 27, 2005 at 01:11 AM

Well, I appreciate all of your help, tips and input! I have a friend of mine at school who said she will aid me in learning the clef in the mornings but if I ever get the chance to get a viola home, your tips will be a major factor in my success! Thanks again and happy music making!

From Jamie Lee
Posted on September 11, 2007 at 09:21 PM

Make sure you dont learn how to read the treble clef by playing a piece that you've played with the violin. I used to try to learn that way. And later, when u try to learn a new piece, it doesn't work. Kelsey's way should b just the beginning. But as others have stated already, learn it so that it comes natural like treble clef.

From Sue Bechler
Posted on September 12, 2007 at 02:01 PM

I would suggest you just buy one of the method books and walk through it. Everything you know except which line and space=what transfers, so it doesn't take that long. All for Strings or Essentials for Strings would be fine. There's also an interesting little book called Treble Clef for Violists that my viola kids enjoy. It has a measure in alto followed by the same thing in treble, so the mind is "switching" all the time, but you also mentally attach what you hear to what you see and feel. Sue

From Michael Schallock
Posted on September 12, 2007 at 06:38 PM

You can tell when you are starting to master alto clef when you switch back to the violin and suddenly realize that you don't know what note to play in treble clef.

From Daniel Stone
Posted on September 12, 2007 at 09:19 PM

Compared to treble and bass clef (these are pretty similar), alto clef is not interchangable, doesn't make use of the viola's range, and publishers tend to switch (or not switch) from alto to treble at seemingly the worst times possible. If only the alto clef had middle c placed on the second line (where the treble clef g is for a bass/tenor clef-like relationship), there wouldn't be any problem. Of course this isn't going to happen so we're pretty much stuck with it. If you're learning to read for viola I'd suggest making sure you know open c (where low b is on treble cleff) and then practicing ascending scales very slowly while looking at the corresponding notes on the staff. It might also help to learn the other open strings as more reference points.

From Patricia Baser
Posted on September 12, 2007 at 11:05 PM

Don't do the just read it as if it were third position. You have to just do it one note at a time with viola in hand. If you really want to fry your brain, play viola and try to read tenor clef. If you need to read multiple clefs at once, you need to really read them. Cheater methods only can go so far.

From Rebecca Appert
Posted on September 13, 2007 at 05:21 PM

there is a fabulous book put out this past year which I heard has gotten good response- the violin to viola conversion kit- it gives really good excercises and practical advice with little daily lessons to build up your alto clef skills!

From Mendy Smith
Posted on September 14, 2007 at 04:50 AM

Start with being able to identify the open strings without having to think about it. Then start working in the other notes through scales. Also, start with a simple piece that you already know by heart (twinkle, Eine Kleina, any piece from the early Suzuki books through # 3 or # 4) will help lay the ground-work you need to learn a new clef. I used this method learning treble clef (for playing my viola), and learning cello (bass and tenor clefs).

From Patricia McCarty
Posted on September 19, 2007 at 07:47 PM

While various transposition schemes can quickly help a violinist play viola parts, actually learning to read the clef aids in passages with accidentals and facilitates choice of positions higher than first. At Meadowmount, a number of violinists try viola each summer, and these interval exercises by Hans Sitt as well as Rolla's Harmonic Labyrinth have proven helpful for learning alto clef:
http://www.ashmontmusic.com/mccarty/Alto_Clef_for_Violinists.pdf

From Jodi B
Posted on September 20, 2007 at 02:07 PM

My daughter just started viola for school orchestra and she has been a violin player for years.

I will tell you what others have told her: Learn the C string.. the notes, where they are on paper and on the string itself.

Next, make sure that you are on a viola if that is possible, not a violin with viola strings. That way you can actually "feel" the size difference and the fact that you have a viola in your hands.

Get a good viola book.. one that Sue mentioned is really good, that will help you with the notes.

My daughter took it up fast and the clef didn't seem to bother her. However, when I play the note on the piano and read the clef it is really hard for me to see a third line b and play it middle c. I don't know why.

From Andrew Victor
Posted on September 20, 2007 at 03:08 PM

If you have used the Suzuki violin books for violin playing then starting viola can be easier than you would ever imagine.

If you can read violin at the level of Suzuki book 4, just buy the Suzuki viola books starting at that level and you can play the same pieces you already know, reading them in the alto clef.

Bu getting used to playing these notes and seeing them on the pages you will be reading alto clef before your next meal.

As far as reading alto clef on viola by transposition (reading violin 3rd position for viola 1st position AND violin 1st position for viola 3rd position, etc.), I have found these work just fine and can be used as an intro to reading directly from alto clef.

I know some very good violists who are primarily violiniists and they say they still have a problem reading alto clef - although I would never know that, having played chamber music with them.

Personally, I have performed publically on viola about 7 times and probably only played (including praticing) viola for about 70 hours lifetime total, Reading alto clef on it doess not come naturally to me (as does reading all the cello clefs - or playing violin - after thousands of hours on both of these instuments), but I can tell you that although I started viola by "transposition", as i sit here and think about it, I visualize the viola in terms of the alto clef directly.

It should not be a problem if you concentrate and apply yourself.

From Dana Beattie
Posted on September 20, 2007 at 09:00 PM

The best thing I did when I picked up the viola was to immerse myself completely. I became principal viola of my university's symphony, and basically forced myself to read alto. Write in any fingerings you want, but just do it! You'll catch on in no time!

From S Dunlop
Posted on October 19, 2007 at 04:20 AM

I think everyone learns differently. I started on viola as an adult beginner after playing piano and organ for many years.

I learned alto clef at first by visualizing the center line of the staff as the line between the treble and bass clef on a grandstaff. Then I would imagine notes while driving up and down the freeway during my long commute to work. Then I played through the Wolfhart exercises, treating them as reading exercises.

From howard vandersluis
Posted on October 19, 2007 at 04:49 AM

I vote for James' approach. If you do a lot of reading, you'll pick it up quicky provided you choose those "anchor notes" that he talks about. I learned it well enough to do some simple wedding gigs by the end of the first day because...I had to.

Strange thing is, it screwed up my bass clef reading for a short while!

From Alain Lefebure
Posted on October 19, 2007 at 04:06 PM

It's not strange at all: treble clef and bass clef have both the lowest C note written on the line while alto clef has it between the lines so all the process is reversed. That is why reading alto clef is upsetting.This difficulty doesn't occur in playing viola if we adhere to the old method that consists to use the first and third fingers for the notes written on line and the second-fourth fingers for notes between the line. This method is useful for a start but does'nt replace the methodic reading of all clefs (which is part of french teaching)

From Roelof Bijkerk
Posted on October 19, 2007 at 03:27 PM

I have still difficulty with the clefs and when in the B minor adagio it changes as well (although for piano).

You just get used to it somehow: that "somehow" can be different ways.
1) you read one step up from treble cleff but know it's an octave lower.
2) i haven't tried any other's sorry

From Alain Lefebure
Posted on October 19, 2007 at 04:11 PM

Sorry I mixed up the words keys and clefs which make my post incomprehensible .I edit my message right away

From Julie Slama
Posted on October 21, 2007 at 04:40 PM

If you have a performance coming up, you'll have to mark note names, etc., and lots of fingerings. Long term, I'd recommend just getting something very basic like "I Can Read Music' by Joanne Martin, vol 1 for VIOLA, and go through it every day. After a month or two, you should be comfortable with the clef, and have worked in some finger-recognition.

From Juergen L. Hemm
Posted on October 22, 2007 at 12:06 PM

Hi,

years ago, I received some very helpful sheets of music from my teacher concerning shifts. For each finger on each string, it would show the beginning and end note (1st position to 3rd position, 1st position to 5th position) of each shift.

For example, you would go from a flat on the G-String to c', from e' flat on the D-String to g', from b' flat on the A-String to d'' and from f'' on the E-String to a'' for the first finger.

For the 3rd finger, this would be c' sharp to g' sharp (1st to 5th on the G-String) etc. etc.

Over time, this made it easy for me to recognize which position to use. I've still not managed to transcribe this to alto clef, but I'm sure it would be very, very helpful to improve my reading of the alto clef.

Another stumbling block is the natural sign. As many more pieces are in the keys of G, D or A major than in a key containing an f flat, as a violinist you're probably thinking "half a step down" if you see a natural sign in front of an f' in treble clef. As a violist reading alto clef, the same "picture" will mean "half a step up" since a b flat is converted to a b. If you're routinely playing (and reading) music using b sharp in the key signature, you must have solved all those little problems already.

Enjoy playing the viola - it'll improve you're playing a lot!

Bye, Juergen

From Kenneth Kensek
Posted on October 22, 2007 at 12:44 PM

There really isn't any simple shortcuts but to spend the time necessary to think in the alto clef as you read it. You will need a viola and beginner viola studies. Immerse yourself until you are able to read the clef without resorting to gimmicks which have a good chance of failing you in actual performance. Nearly every major violin etude book have been transcribed to alto clef. The Kayser Etudes may be a good place to start.

Search

Editor's Blogs

Laurie Niles
Violinist.com's editor is a professional symphony violinist and former newspaper reporter who interviews top violin performers and pedagogues, as well as reports on her experience in violin music and education.

Plus: The Weekend Vote

Interviews

Indianapolis Symphony concertmaster Zach DePue explores jazz, folk and other genres as part of the trio "Time for the Three."

Hilary Hahn talks about the development of her new recording, "Bach: Violin and Voice."

Sarah Chang talks of her perspective on life as a prodigy, and how that's prepared her for her current career.

More interviews...

Blogs Post Blog Discussion Violin Tips Violinists Instruments For Sale Festivals Register Log In