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Is rosin dust bad for you?

Health: forget allergies. what about long-term health issues?

From Allan Speers
Posted February 10, 2005 at 07:58 PM

as a beginning violinist, I am amazed at how much powder comes off the bow and into my lungs. Yes, I had a re-hair done, and have found certain rosins that powder less, but I am still concerned.

Has this ever been studied scientifically? Has anyone ever proven that rosin dust is 100% safe?

I don't mind the smell (I kind of like it) nor a bit of sneezing. However, there are several possible negative effect:

1: It could clog the cillia, much like asbestos and burning candle wax. (yes, candles are seriously bad for your lungs)

2: It could simply be toxic, causing subtle, hard to notice symptoms such as mild drowsiness, or a weakened immune system

-Or it could be completely benign.

But I need to know for sure!

I asked a violinist firend, who looked at me with a most puzzled expression. Obviously, the thought had never crossed her mind. "But it's all-natural," she said.
Well, yeah. So is arsenic.

Does anyone know, I mean know absolutely?

I am especially interested in the Clarity supersensitive rosin. Many have recommended it to allergy sufferers, as it supposedly creates "no" powder.
Well, it must put SOME powder in the air. Otherwise, you would apply it once and never take it out again.

It is made from "a synthetic hydrocarbon resin compound." -That sounds petroleum-based to me. Petroleum is a known carcinogen.

You see my point.

I have been serching the internet, but surprisingly I can find no info on this at all.
Perhaps (and hopefully) normal rosin is completely benign, but it would be good to know for sure.

I have also been using Tartini solo. I like the tone it draws, and the lack of powder is an added bonus. Still, it does leave SOME smell in the air. (The Tartini green, btw, is powder city.)

Less powder is certainly better than more powder. HOWEVER, that is not the question at hand.

Surely, at some point in recent history, there must have been some scientific or medical research on this subject. No?

thanks for the thoughtful response. i can't believe we have a toxicologist on these forums! PLEASE let me know if you find any data at all. I agree with the several points you make, but I think the toxicity issue is probably more worrisome than the asbestos analogy. I say this because rosin can be washed out of bow hair with soapy water. Therefore, it PROBABLY breaks down in the cilia.

However, I really can't think of any substance at all that is completely safe when inhaled.

Erika, Alan, Adela, & Emily: Please save the silliness for some other thread. This is a serious discussion about a possibly serious issue.

Many, many substances once thought to be completely safe are now recognized to be dangerous. Some cause effects mild enough to be attributed to other things, such as the flu. Some weaken the immune system, and so it is very hard to recognize the source toxin. Some cause birth defects years later, and so are similarly not recognized for a long time.

One might also consider the effect on babies. Perhaps a little rosin dust can be tolerated by adults, but is bad for a baby's developing nervous system. In a home where someone practices regularly, where does all that rosin dust fall? And where do babies play?

Do you still think it's a matter for jokes?

Perhaps (just perhaps) violinists and violists have a higher-than-normal instance of liver and kidney damage, due to constant inhalation of the stuff. Probably not, but let's say they did. Would you know about it? Has anyone ever done such a study?

Has this topic really never come up before?

If I die young from cancer, we'll never know if it was the pesticides or the cleaning agents, or the soaps, deoderants, and perfumes, or the couple of packs of cloves I smoked, or telephone lines or the cell-phones. Or perhaps it'll be the rosin dust. Personally, I'll attribute it to the alternatebowing.

Don't worry, I'll leave this thread alone from now on. No hard feelings? :)

That aside, apparently for those who DO develop an allergy, it can be quite serious. And no jokes about eating the stuff. I ran into this information while reading a thread where a violin maker/restorer had the habit of tasting old varnish to determine its chemical composition and broke out in a skin condition that would recur for over a week. Rosin, or "colophony" is also used in makeup and creams, and when people allergic to it come into contact with it -- after smearing it directly onto their skin of course --- well, the article is here: http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/rosin-allergy.html Warning: the photos are not nice. But that's for people with allergies. If that were common, surely the right hands of violinists would become all mottled and splotched.

I love the smell of rosin, by the way - though if I clearly smell it, I'm probably using too much.

I read the article cited by Inge in an earlier post, and here are my thoughts about it. It was very interesting, but I wonder whether the rosin it discussed was violin bow rosin, since violin bow rosin was not on the long list of products cited. The article names the major chemical component of rosin (abietic acid), and this would be useful information if it's applicable to violin bow rosin.

The acute and chronic effects of a substance are frequently different. One may be innocuous and the other adverse. In the present case, contact dermatitis and acute worsening of asthma would be acute effects, and respiratory problems or cancer due to the accumulation of rosin dust particles in the lungs would be a chronic effect. A given person may not experience contact dermatitis or acute asthma but still may have problems caused by chronic exposure to rosin dust.

Emily, your point about early death possibly due to any of several different factors is well taken. We're all exposed to many toxic substances which may cause cancer after chronic exposure -- cigarette smoke, pesticides, food additives, and certain molds, to name a few. Epidemiologists have a hard task trying to figure out which of many possible factors are the culprits. They do studies on large numbers of people and use statistical methods to figure out which factors are related to which effects.

I am dealing with chronic unemployment. I'm applying for science writer jobs, and the ads often say they're looking for some one with the "ability to translate complex scientific information into terms that laypeople can understand." Does anyone want to give me a recommendation?

The thread discussing this in the other forum also went into the fact that some people are alergic to rosin - they were talking about violinists and violin students, but they would know it because their skin would break out. On the other hand, I know a man who almost died by eating camembert cheese, but I'm not allergic to penicillin and regular eat that cheese.

You brought up another very good point. People's sensitivities to allergens and chemicals in general can vary tremnedously.

I believe that it's possible to be both silly and serious about a subject. Scott, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

An image comes to mind of Pigpen, only with violin rosin clouds instead of dust.

Seriously. There are so many violinists and string players practicing for five hours a day and playing concerts and just walking around in a constant cloud of rosin dust and with that much exposure if there were any real adverse effects wouldn't we know it by now? News Headlines: Most Dangerous Profession: Violinist! Three more Violinists Dropped Dead Today from Rosin Overdose...story at eleven...

Emily, do you think it would be a good idea to use rosin as a low sugar substitute for maple syrup? I will put some on my oatmeal tomorrow.

This substance is known and used by certain professionals, teachers, and enthusiasts belonging to a specific demographic in the music entertainment sector. Users often report that this naturally existing compound allows them to perform with more clarity and 'edge'. With the variety of types available, some users are defensive when it comes to their chosen brand and will take any opportunity to verbally claim its superiority over others.

Tell tail signs of excessive rosin use are:
red, itchy eyes, dry mouth and throat, sticky fingers, and an incredible bite to their bow.

users often gather in public displays of intoxication... it's best to view these 'concerts' from a respectful distance and be sure to inject rounds of placating applause lest things turn ugly.

Here's a link about it. http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/rosin-allergy.html

It looks like if you have an allergy to rosin, then it shows itself as a rash of some sort... It's also in a lot of household items, and makeup. So if you were allergic to some of those things on the list in that link (makeup's an easy test), then you would probably be allergic to Violin bow rosin, or should look into it as a possiblity.

Just a thought.

Over the years, I've smelt the rosin, the strings have cut through layers of skin on my fingers, I have a large red/purple mark on my neck, my left shoulder is bent slightly forward, my hearing in the left ear has suffered through the agonising process of master high positions on the E string (a process which forced me to leave home early, but that's a story of suffering in itself finding housemates who like listening to practise in high positions), and my eyesight has suffered from squinting in orchestras when reading at a distance or in an orchestra pit. And yet, I play on.

Forget the rosin, Allan, and devote this energy towards practice until you can play scales in double harmonics. Then you can go back to thinking about the rosin!

Ben

Maple syrup comes from maple trees. Most rosin comes from pine trees. Let's see, what else comes from pine trees? That's right, kids: Turpentine.

I don't know about you, but I just LOVe a nice big helping of all natural turpentine on my pancakes. Mmmmm, nature's goodness!

Or tey this one: The berries of the apple trees (apples, that is) are quite deicious. the berries of certain other trees and shrubs will KILL you.

Searching around, I found a study on Glycerol Ester of Wood rosin used in drinks.

"From these studies, it was concluded that glycerol
ester of wood rosin has no genotoxic properties; wood rosin at doses
up to 434 mg/kg of body weight (bw) per day did not induce any
treatment-related histopathological changes in a long-term study of
toxicity and carcinogenicity in Sprague-Dawley rats; and the food-
grade material was less toxic than the non-food-grade material in
13-week studies of toxicity."

and from the US Code of Federal Regulations:

"Glycerol ester of wood rosin may be safely used in food in
accordance with the following prescribed conditions:...2)It is used to adjust the density of citrus oils used in the
preparation of beverages whereby the amount of the additive does not
exceed 100 parts per million of the finished beverage."

You missed out on a perfectly good drink.

1. According to the FDA (Food and Drug Administration, US), there are many derivatives of wood rosin (from pine trees) which can be added to food. Does that make anyone feel hungry?

2. Rosin is commonly found in solder.

3. The World Health Organization publishes International Chemical Safety Cards, and the one on rosin (colophony, gum rosin) is very interesting. It says, "PREVENT DISPERSION OF DUST! AVOID ALL CONTACT! ... Appearance: pale yellow to amber, fragments or powder, with characteristic odour. Routes of exposure: The substance can be absorbed into the body by inhalation of fumes. ... Chemical dangers: The substance decomposes on heating producing irritating fumes. [My comment: What happens when it's cooked? It is discussed as "rosin core solder." Solder gets heated, too.] Effects of long-term or repeated exposure: Repeated or prolonged contact may cause skin sensitization. Repeated or prolonged inhalation exposure may cause asthma. ... Notes: Rosin is obtained from pine trees. Rosin is available as wood rosin, gum rosin, or tall oil rosin. Anyone who has shown symptoms of asthma due to this substance should avoid all further contact with this substance." [My comment: Do you need to be an internationally recognized expert on toxicology to come up with the last sentence?]

I also got some more personal experience on the subject when I went to my local violin store yesterday. I asked the staff there about possible toxic effects of breathing rosin dust, and one fellow said, "Oh, no! Are you telling me that I'm going to die young just because I'm working here?" I asked about a low dust rosin, and he said that they had jade rosin and Clarity rosin, which is completely synthetic. I asked about the synthetic, and he didn't know much about it, but another member of the staff there said that one of their clients, who is a cellist, says it's wonderful. I was intrigued (I was a chem major in college), so I bought it. The label says that it is "super-sensitive" and "hypo-allergenic." I have no idea what it's made of. It's perfectly clear and colorless, and it feels smooth, not sticky like rosin. I tried using it on my bow, and it worked fine. I don't know whether I've increased or decreased my probable lifespan by using it.

Scary isn't it!

So the last thing you need to worry is the rosin in your bow!

Enjoy your violin, practice and live your life as if today was your last!

Regards,

Peter

:gulp!:

a. know so little about rosin, including the fact that some rosins include compounds such as gold -- to which some people are allergic.

b. waste so much internet space with frivolous reponses to serious questions.

Cheerfully,
Karin

PS. Thought I'd waste some space.

I think a lot of people have missed the point of the thread. I don't think it matters that diesel feul is more carcinogenic than rosin in the long run, but I do think that if you happen to react badly to any substance, even supposedly safe ones, then it can make you suffer greatly on a day-to-day basis.

Hopefully I can find the Clarity rosin in France?

Often when a bow is rehaired it is overly rosined with powered rosin. For some reason many luthiers are taught that each hair needs to be throughly coated with the stuff. The powdered rosin is probably overwhelming your son.

My teacher recommends unscrewing the hair at the frog and very carefully washing the hair with a bit of mild shampoo in a basin of warm water. Followed with a good rinsing, just like you would your own hair. It's easy to do, just be sure to keep the water away from the wood. After it dries reassemble the bow and put enough rosin on to grip the hairs. This really helped my bow which returned with new hair and a raspy sound.

Hope this helps your son!

Wanda

Emily might rinse her bow hair in a fine wine, then use the resulting liquid in a chicken sauté. ;)

Deglaze with beer and reduce, scraping off any stuck-on bits. Thickened rosin sauce pairs well with halibut or salmon.

I've noticed that Tartini rosins are very nearly dust-free, a good thing in my book.

I have a copy of Joy of Cooking that describes cooking potatos in a vat of hot resin, and often wondered how they tasted, and where one could get enough resin to cook potatos, and whether heating said resin on a stove would be a terrible fire hazard. No answers on this front, only questions.

I note that most of the old violin soloists, who presumably fiddled for many hours every day of their lives, don't seem to have died young. Of course in today's more polluted and toxic environment, adding rosin dust to the mix might prove to be more harmful that simple exposure to only one potentially harmful substance. But think back to Victorian England, especially London, where air pollution was the order of the day. Were violinists expiring at a greater rate than the general population? I suspect not.

I personally don't think that long-term exposure to this dust, especially if using the more dust-free rosins available, is particvularly harmful. A simple paper dust mask might be in order if extensive exposure is in the cards, but when one considers that we exist in a fairly gritty environment anyway - ever seen electron micrographs of dust mites? Snorting them might seem really disgusting, but lord knows how many have entered your lungs by the time you're old enough to read - rosin dust would have to be way low on the scale of things to worry about.

The important thing to remember is that average lifespans seem to be increasing, and we're none of us going to get out of this alive anyway.

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