Ball or Loop EndInstruments: I am buying strings and do not know if I should be buying a certain end for the string...
From Klaus Kroenen
However, I do not know whether I should be buying ball or loop ends. Do you have to have a certain type, or does any end work? I think my violin has loop ends, so should I buy loop ends? I am not sure on this point and need some help, I don't want to buy the wrong kind.
From marjory langeDepends on the type of tailpiece your violin has. your teacher should be able to tell you which you need.
Posted on July 27, 2013 at 04:18 PM
From Bohdan WarchalLoop end sounds better, so try to choose loop end type fine tuner whenever it is possible.
Posted on July 27, 2013 at 04:32 PM
From Aditya ChanderLoop end/ball end is only relevant for the E string. If you have a Wittner tailpiece with built in tuners or a fine tuner that has two prongs on it, you will need a ball end E string. The ball sits behind the prongs on the individual tuner and the string passes through the gap. On the Wittner, just look at the other strings to see how the E string should sit in the tuner.
Posted on July 27, 2013 at 06:46 PM
For a fine tuner with just one prong, you will need a loop end E string. The loop will loop around the prong on the tuner.
From Rocky MilankovFor a fine tuner with just one prong, get the high quality one, otherwise you will end up breaking the strings on the loop often. Some shops also provide a loop protector to prevent this.
Posted on July 27, 2013 at 10:06 PM
From Katherine DunhamBohdan, why would ball-end strings sound less well? I don't like the Hill style fine tuners; they're fussy and strings can break on the hook... I have a Bois d'Harmonie style tuner which I like a lot, and have just purchased two of your Amber E-strings (with Ball-ends)which haven't arrived yet. They won't sound as good as loop-end strings?
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 05:22 AM
From Darrett SmithGötz fine tuner
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 06:00 AM
I use this fine tuner on all my violins and violas to good effect - I find that they don't have a problem with the threads jamming like on regular hill-style fine tuners, and the hook that you loop the string around has never broken a string for me (or for any of my friends who use these fine tuners). Also, the tuning hook has a lower profile so that the string will make contact with the saddle on the tailpiece, equalizing the afterlength of the E string with that of the other four strings (unless you have a very thin tailpiece).
Back when I used a steel A string, I used a custom Harmonie tailpiece with two integrated fine tuners, but later switched to a normal tailpiece with two Götz tuners instead (on my particular Harmonie tailpiece, the E and A strings did not make contact with the saddle), which I preferred, using steel A strings with removable ball ends that I'd convert into loop end strings, which I believed sounded better.
From Bohdan WarchalKarherine, if you use an integrated fine tuners tailpiece type, you will need the 701 B IFT version, which is not in sale yet. Our new generation E strings (shaped E strings) are not easily interchangeable due to the precise position of the spiral. So the spiral on 701 B will get over the bridge, what is not ideal. However, you will be able to install the string, if you stretch it before at least a bit (to be able to move the tube type bridge protector to its place)
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 09:01 AM
Back to the topic, yes you are right, loop version E strings sound better then ball type ones. There is a good news for you, the sound quality of ball end E combined with integrated fine tuners tailpiece is better than the ball E is attached to the metal tuning fork mounted additionally.
There are two reasons of the sound difference:
1. It is well known that strings do vibrate not only between the bridge and nut, but also between bridge and button, including strings afterlength and tailpiece. The lighter and farther from the bridge the tailpiece is, the better. Normal ball end tuner is protruded from the tailpiece towards the bridge, moreover it use to cause quite significant extra mass of the tailpiece.
2. Afterlength pitch. There are a lot of discussion threads about ideal afterlength pitches, you can find many different theories about it. However, as for the E string, the lower pitch the better. Since a normal ball end type fine tuner (additionally mounted) makes the afterlength shorter, the pitch gets higher.
Applying the first principle (less mass as possible) makes your instrument sounding louder, applying the second one (longer E string afterlength) makes the violin sounding mellower. It even applies for the sound of another three strings, since all vibrations are interconnected by bridge and instrument body.
The sound difference is much less significant than the differences between various instruments use to be of course. However it is noticeable at least by trained ear and it is well measurable.
We have done quite a lot of research about E strings recently. As a result, we are going to add some new texts on our website soon and include loop end fine tuner on warchalshop for nonprofit price in order to encourage our customers to switch. As for integrated fine tuner tailpiece, the sound result of may be good provided the tailpiece is not heavy.
From Raphael KlaymanThat's very interesting. But I must say that I haven't found a difference in sound favoring a loop-end E. What I HAVE found is that E strings usually break at the loop, and using ball-end E's has extended my E-strings lives enormously. In fact, since switching to ball-end E's a long time ago, I don't remember an E ever breaking. I change them when they get false or a bit dull. And you can use a ball-end E with a Hill-style tuner. The "balls" - at least on the several brands that I've tended to use - are actually like donuts, with a hole in the middle. With some care, the hole can go over - and stay - on a single-pronged Hill-type tuner.
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 12:21 PM
From Patrick TinneyRaphael Klayman wrote: “With some care, the hole can go over - and stay - on a single-pronged Hill-type tuner”
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 02:11 PM
When I purchased my UCWV (Unlabeled Chinese Workshop Violin) last August 27 it was presented with a fine tuner for ball end strings. Before it went home I had the shop put a Hill Style tuner on it.
I know this shop normally puts a string protector on these fine tuners, but since the string on the violin had a ball end he just slipped the ball (doughnut) over the hook. Since my teacher sometimes does this I did not take notice and I buy those string protectors eight to the tree (This is a link to loop protectors, though I bought mine from Southwest Strings (link)).
After wards I began to wonder about something. Is placing the “ball” over the fine tuner hook such a common practice that the manufactures concern themselves with the the possibility that the “ball” might indent the hook or raise a burr on the hook? Anyone have a “bad” experience with this?
Darrett Smith I will try the Conrad Götz Violin Adjuster. Now that my violin is almost out of warranty I will probably be following my every-little-bit makes a difference policy. And I put the Hill adjuster on my Knilling so I know its not that hard, just put a piece of cloth under it.
Oh, if you've never put a loop protector on the hook I found it easier to leave it on the tree. Any Luthiers know a good technique. I have fat squishy finger tips, unfortunately. I've lost a couple trying to use tweezers.
From Darrett SmithI don't like the look of a ball-end E string on a Hill-style fine tuner (which also changes the angle of the tailpiece), and I found it to be a huge hassle to use the E-string protectors (I eventually just had the fine tuners on my violin filed smooth, before buying my Harmonie tailpiece) - the Götz fine tuners were a life saver, and I've never had a problem with the threads jamming like on other Hill-style fine tuners (which I would have to lubricate with machine oil once every couple months). Apparently Rene Morel recommended the Götz tuners not so much because they equalized the afterlength of all four strings between the bridge and tailpiece, but more so because they never break E strings at the loop.
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 03:04 PM
Here is a link where you can buy the Götz tuners at a more reasonable price than directly from their brand store. I personally feel that it makes a big enough difference that your wallet will thank you for it in the end!
From Trevor JenningsAnother possibility is to dispense with the tailpiece tuner for the metal E and tune from the peg. Manual tuning is quite feasible if the peg is set up well and the E isn't heavy gauge; or use a geared peg.
Posted on July 28, 2013 at 04:37 PM
If you use a gut E you'll be tuning from the peg anyway.
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