Putting the Bow Before the Violin

Instruments: I don't have a lot of expertise, but I feel as if the bow I am using is not that great a tool.

From Krista Moyer
Posted June 15, 2012 at 05:07 AM

I recently began violin lessons, and have been loaned a violin to play by my teacher until I can afford one of my own. It's a 3/4 German model from about the mid 1980's, and it came with a fiberglass Glasser bow.

Granted, after only a month of lessons, I don't have a lot of expertise, but I feel as if the bow I am using is not that great a tool. Since a bow is a smaller investment than the violin, would it make any sense to purchase a better bow now, while I am saving the money for a violin of my own, or am I getting ahead of myself?

I am lucky to have the loan of an instrument, but am eager to have my own. Is this perhaps coloring my perception of need versus want?

From Roland Garrison
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 06:28 AM

I would take your violin to some local violin shops, and try different bows they have in your price range. Then you will find if this is the issue.
NOTE: The bow may be adequate, but may need a rehair. As you try different bows, you will get the feel of how a well-haired bow feels, so you will then know if this is the case.

From steven su
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 06:35 AM

to me, bow is equally as important. Ideally, you should get one that you can play with comfortably. but good ones cost quite a bit. For myself, I still play on my crappy bow and student violin after 10 years cause I am broke. I do catch a break when my friends lend me their bows!
If you do decide to buy a new bow, you should ask someone you trust to help you pick because there are a lot of unethical dealers so you don't waste your money.
Otherwise, Good luck!

From Carlo Ballara
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 07:10 AM

Krista, I would buy the cheapest model of the Codabows or similar carbon fibre. This won't set you back much and would make a useful spare in the future. You can check prices online.

Steven, I agree about dealers, but in the price range Krista will be looking in, there is not much to worry about.

Cheers Carlo

From Lyndon Taylor
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 07:30 AM

vitali imports(whittier, california) sells a really good nickel mount pernambuco bow for 200usd or a bit less, its the two star model and its made by the german company doerfler or seifert, i forget which, we did a sound comparison to my customers 800usd coda classic? bow and this one blew it away in tone, so much so the customer decided to buy it, it has a much more pleasant "woody" sound in the midrange, without some obnoxious very high frequency noise the carbon fiber bow puts out, the carbon fibre just doesnt sound warm, it has a mechanical plasticy sound, of course the playabilty of the carbon fibre is excellent, that seems to be why so many people like them

From Brian Kelly
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 08:49 AM

I have just found out myself how important a good bow is to the sound. Buy the best bow that you can afford. That is what I will be doing. Even a cheap violin can sound pretty amazing with decent strings and a good bow.

From Carlo Ballara
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 12:35 PM

@Lyndon. That sounds like a very good buy. I suspect it is a Chinese bow rebranded as a German bow.

Many of the new low end European labelled instruments are made in China. As long as more than 50% of the final price is European they can be labelled us such.

In the case of a bow probably the hair is enough. For a violin the varnish, or maybe just the set up.

Cheers Carlo

From Lisa Van Sickle
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 03:38 PM

If this is the low-end Glasser fiberglass it would cost more to rehair it than to replace it, and you would still have a pretty lousy bow. They're made for school programs where minimum cost and maximum durability are what counts. A new bow is the best investment you could make right now. Any idea what you are looking to spend?

From Krista Moyer
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 05:17 PM

Thanks for all of the replies!

It sounds as if a bow purchase would not be out of line at this point. I will look into the Vitali Imports option, and will check with some of the other shops in the area. I have a used carbon fiber out on spec right now from one shop (brand name Arcos?). It draws a better sound for sure, but is harder to control. I'm not in love with it.

My plan is to purchase a violin (not including bow)in the $800-$1200 range within the next year. How much should I consider spending on the bow? I was thinking around $150-$200?

From Carlo Ballara
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 08:58 PM

The general rule is the bow should be 25% of the value of the violin as a minimum. A great bow on a good violin is better than the other way around.

Cheers Carlo

From Lisa Van Sickle
Posted on June 15, 2012 at 09:20 PM

Maybe look up to $400 or so. A couple hundred dollars extra goes a LOT further in a bow than an instrument in this price range. There's a bunch of nice bows out there in the $300 - $400 range.

From Brian Kelly
Posted on June 16, 2012 at 03:40 AM

I think that you should spend more than that. I intend to spend about $200 on a bow and my violins are only worth about $300-$400 each.

From Lyndon Taylor
Posted on June 16, 2012 at 08:09 PM

carlo you might be right about the bow being made in china but its not a chinese bow rebranded as german, its a german company that orders and has its bows made in china to their specs, big difference, obviously when this bow was first offered years ago, which is stamped vitali, they were german and they did switch companies from seifert to doerfler or vs versa, im not sure which,

i know its a bit cynical but its hard to believe theyre still being made for that price in germany today, when the german company can contract to make them in china much cheaper, either way theyre still a good bow at a good price

From Nicky Paxton
Posted on June 18, 2012 at 02:00 PM

There remains an unresolved question as to whether the cheaper end of stamped German bows are in fact German, or simply Chinese bows rebranded as German, or else bows made in China but commissioned by German firms and made according to the German firms' specifications. I'm rather concerned at Carlo's comment that Chinese bows can be rebranded as European if at least half of the asking price is imposed on the bow in Europe (if I understand him correctly).

Does anyone have further information on this question? I'm not trying to 'stir things up'. Instead, the reason why I'm asking is that, if I want a German bow, perhaps I'd better go for older ones in the event of needing another.

From Lyndon Taylor
Posted on June 18, 2012 at 03:06 PM

if you want a german or french anything, you should go for an older one, almost all the new ones are made in china

From Bart Meijer
Posted on June 18, 2012 at 05:15 PM

It could be very important to ask your teacher before you buy a new bow.

From Krista Moyer
Posted on June 18, 2012 at 06:10 PM

Bart, that's a good point. I did speak with him, and he is on board.

From Carlo Ballara
Posted on June 18, 2012 at 07:07 PM

@Nicky, you are correct. That is how the law stands. It doesn't just apply to instruments. Cheap chicken, in the UK, is sold as British but in fact is grown and killed in Thailand in dubious conditions. The whole carcass is imported and butchered here. British chicken anyone?

Regarding instruments, it is the cheaper violins and bows. There are, of course, top quality handmade German bows and violins. Even French and Italian ones too...

Chinese instruments are handmade too. Choose a violin or bow based on how it plays, but don't pay a premium because you think it may be European. Do your homework first and if the price seems too good it probably is. I don't see how a $200 German bow adds up.

Cheers Carlo

From Lyndon Taylor
Posted on June 19, 2012 at 08:34 AM

you dont see how a 200usd german bow adds up?? most good german bows are worth 1000usd or more, 200s cheap, playable chinese bows start at about 100usd, i dont see what the distinction is carlo, the 200usd "german" bow is quite a bit better than the best 100usd chinese bow, maybe because the german one is designed by a company that knows a thing or two about bows

From Carlo Ballara
Posted on June 19, 2012 at 09:57 AM

@Lyndon, Please follow the thread and read all the words in a post before you write your response.

It is clear that I meant, at $200, I very much doubt that the bow was made in Germany. This would have to be made in a low wage economy.

Neither the price nor the quality of the student bow is in question.

Cheers Carlo

From Lyndon Taylor
Posted on June 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM

10 years ago the same bow was made in germany and sold for 200usd or less, it might still be made in germany, contact vitali

From Carlo Ballara
Posted on June 19, 2012 at 04:05 PM

10 years ago the world was not flooded with Chinese made instruments. Contact Shanghai.

Cheers Carlo

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Putting the Bow Before the Violin

On the scene: Montreal International Musical Competition

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