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Orchestra vs Solo workTeaching: Asking for guidelines of how to balance Orchestra vs Solo progress in a Suzuki book2 Student.From Cesar Ribera Hi all. I posted about my son a while ago, now this was his orchestral debut. The video has poor quality, but I hope the sound can give you an idea of the level of the youth orchestra my son is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETHTy2ttkUc This other one was the last video I have from him playing solo, it was in April 2009, he was just begining to get used to his new Scott Cao 1/10 violin (upgraded from a cheap 1/16 violin). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBZwFDrgTy4 (perhaps is another thread of him moving too much, he has always been a dancing guy... but for violin, we sometimes grab his feet to stop him from trying to dance, if you have advice on this, they'd be welcome too). My observation was that he was advancing about 1 song per month of Suzuki Book2, but when he began to prepare for orchestra, his advance was severely slowed down. The 6th song, Handel's Bourree took him more than 3 months if I'm not wrong, and I saw the individual classes were mainly about working with orchestra material, and sharpening his reading skills..... I'm sure orchestra and reading are important to learn...that's why I ask for more experienced parents and teachers....are there some hints to help in this situation? is there a way to balance? wich is more important, orchestral work or continuing the Suzuki solo work? Thanks in advance for any help. Best Regards. Cesar
From Stephen Brivati
Posted on October 31, 2009 at 10:43 AM Greetings, I`m not sure exactly what your situation is but I thought yor son played very nicely. The point to my mind os not to call it `solo work.` In order to play the instrument well one must have systematic lessons in just that whether it is the Suzuki method or any other is irrelevent. Playing in ensembles is dependent on this. One does not leanr to play an instrument well by playing in ensembles if the nuts and bolts are not being worked on- the ensemble is the icing on the cake, albeit veyr importnat icing. If you and your son wnat to progres then the only real balance is to have a private lesson with a teacher once a week. Cheers, Buri From Cesar Ribera
Posted on October 31, 2009 at 03:15 PM Hi Buri, thanks for the answer. I know you're an expert in Alexander technique, so please let me ask, is that technique also suited for small kids starting violin? How much time in hours do you think an instructor needs to become capable of teaching it? (cause we don't have AT experts in Bolivia but perhaps some instructors in close areas could be willing to learn) From Sue Bechler
Posted on October 31, 2009 at 06:55 PM Hi, You could google the Suzuki Assocaition of the Americas and join their Xchange. Suuzki teachers & parents might be able to give you valuable & pertinent input, too. SUe From Stephen Brivati
Posted on October 31, 2009 at 10:01 PM Greetings, Cesar, in general young kids don`t need AT so much although its nice for anyone. Your son looks pretty healthy to me ;) It takes three years of intensve training minimu to produce an AT teacher and is bets done under the guidelines of a government approved organization. It`s not a simple thing that any individual can set up in and advertize after a few lessons (although that has happened on ocassion...). If you are having trouble getting a private teacher for your son that is really sad but be patient. The internet may be a helpful resource. Maybe you can get together with other parents and set up a kind of summer camp and someone could be invited ot come and teach. Thes ekind of projects sound daunting but are not impossible. Hope things work out for you, Buri From Cesar Ribera
Posted on November 1, 2009 at 07:57 PM One more question to Buri, Sue or anyone who can advice. First, he has a private teacher for violin, what we don't have in Bolivia is an AT teacher. My concern was that his private lessons were mainly about orchestral work, in detriment to advancing his Suzuki repertoire (excuse me if the terms are not correct, like the 'solo' one, and please don;t hesitate in letting me know). About repertoire, wasn't there a thread about how was not adviced to skip repertoire just to showoff the kid? I understand that skipping repertoire could be fancy in the short term, but could harm severely the development of the violinist in the long term, isn't it? What I'm afraid is that some orchestral pieces are beyond the skills of a Suzuki Book 2 student, at least now they're 2nd violin parts that seem at reach for his skill level.... Is there a risk that orchestral work could force him into a perennial 2nd violinist, because of using his individual private classes for catching up with more experienced kids in the youth orchestra? Has any of you v.commers had a similar situation in the past? how did you handle it? how did it turn out? From Stephen Brivati
Posted on November 1, 2009 at 08:03 PM Greetings, whta you say is correct. Studying diifcultorchestral parts rather than working on basics of the instrument will be detrimental. If the orchestral parts are really difficult it is usually better to have a beginners group for easy music. But neither is a sibstitute for systematic and regular private lessons and practice and if the level ofdifficulty is too high then many bad habits can settle in, Cheers, Buri From Marina Fragoulis
Posted on November 1, 2009 at 08:37 PM Your child plays very well, you must be very proud. He's very young, maybe too young for orchestra in my opinion. He will get plenty of that when he is older. Playing in an orchestra requires listening to all the other sections and blending in with them and those are skills he should build up to, not face in their entirety. Continuing private lessons is obvious, but if you want him to have ensemble experience place him in a group that won't stretch him unecessarily. How about a kiddie quartet or violin ensemble? Somewhere where the focus will still be on his instrument while giving him an opportunity to make music with others. I don't believe that playing in an orchestra will ruin him as you fear, but your concerns are real and if you doubt the necessity of orchestra then pull him out. It might suit him better to do things that are not only more appropriate for his age/skill level but it would benefit him the most as well. From Andrew Victor
Posted on November 1, 2009 at 10:17 PM Cesar, I think you are getting good inputs here. 1. Forget about AT! 2. Have your wonderful son's teacher concentrate on developing technique (what you call "repertoire" - but it's not). 3. Playing in an orchestra (or smaller ensemble) can be great fun when one has the skills to do it. In addition to the most basic ability to play notes in tone, play in multiple positions and keys, and read music, this also means learning the appropriate styles for different music. 4. After this, ensemble playing is a natural next step. I've had to teach a few of my young students orchestra "repertoire' for the youth orchestras they have been in. It's no fun!. They should not need basic or lengthy instruction on this. They still need to develop counting an reading skills first. Then the teacher can help them play in the appropriate style, but in so many beginning orchestras (at least in the US) a person playing with correct style will be submerged in a cacaphony. I find that many string students who first begin to learn in a public school setting are very hard to teach in a private setting. They learn to play OUT OF TUNE in the orchestra just so they can hear themselves. And with the short time available for orchestra practice they are often playing on out of tune instruments. By the time I get them, they don't seem to know the difference. I try hard to get the little ones to learn to read music. When they are reading music, and practicing regularly, it does not take a month to learn to play pieces at this level. I thought your son seemed to be playing very well (I agree he does need to be "tied down" when standing up), especially in the orchestra where he seemd to be the crispest player in the bunch. He needs to do that in settings where he can always hear himself - at least for now. You have not told us how old he is so there is no way to tell what is to be expected of his mental abilities at this stage. Andy
From Cesar Ribera
Posted on November 1, 2009 at 11:00 PM Hi all, thanks again for the advice. Just in case, I post this old video, from april 2008 (posted before in my very first v.com post), when he was just 4 then, it's the most clear video I have, cause it was on a TV set. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFx6XyjN-Vk the rest of the videos have far lower quality. He told me that the most difficult issue for him playing in that youth orchestra is keeping the speed of the more experienced guys while reading music. Other than that, he told me he wants to stay in the orchestra, in fact it was him who begged his teacher to get in, and he enjoys going (I hope it's not only because he plays a lot (horses around) with the other kids before and after the practice sessions...) Well, the advice have been valuable.... (Andrew...I'm not totally sure of the crispest meaning, even after looking at the dictionary...could it be fresh? ) ....thanks a lot for the input.... Best regards to all.
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