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The strads and del Gesus of tomorrow?

Instruments: In 100 years or 200 years, which of our makers will be best known?

From John Platen
Posted October 26, 2009 at 08:48 PM

Strads and del Gesus are the violins that stood the test of time from that period of makers. What maker, say 100 or 200 years from now, will be best known from the makers making violins now?

I will thow in my opinion right from the start:

1. Sam Zyg

2. Joseph Curtin

3. Howard Needham

4. Griener

5, Burgess 

6. Who knows?

I think the gap from # 1 and everyone else will be huge. 

I would throw in Croen, probably at the same place as Burgess 

I think that the market in 100 yeas will be more regionalized. That is happening already with some non contemporary North American makers such as Becker, Peresson and, why not, old Roths. These makers are more sought after in the USA than in Europe, for instance.  The same may be occurring in other places.

The violin world that saw the supremacy of Stradivari and Del Gesu was much smaller. It began in France in Vuillaume`s time than moved to England, in a trade with very few players. In the future the market will be much more dispersed, with much more players in many more places of the world.

Just my two cents.

www.manfio.com

100-200 years is quite a long time. I sincerely hope and pray that the planet will still be alive by then. But meanwhile back at the the ranch...it's hard to predict even 20 years from now. Talent and skill aside there's an "X" factor for fame - especially lasting fame. Sometimes a maker, player, actor, whatever will be hot, and then not. Not very long ago Sergio Peresson was all the rage. Now, not so much - which is not to put down his work.

As for lasting fame, as Luis says, the market is so much more crowdwd now - so many more makers and players. It will be harder to stand head and shoulders above the rest in a permanent way - but who knows? I don't know if it will become more reginal with favorite sons, as with Berger in NY and Becker in Chicago, because there is such increased globalization. Our own v.com site is a part of that process. I'm about to recommend a couple of names that many people 'tuning-in' here might not otherwise come across - but now they will. We're busy virtual bees, pollinating and cross-fertilizing far and wide! 

I'm a big believer in and supporter of fine contemporary instrument and bow making, and would not disagree with anyone's list. I'd just like to add a couple of names to it, based on my own  very satisfied personal ownership: Edward Maday of Long  Island (NY), and Vittorio Villa of Cremona, Italy.

Wait and see.

Ah, the growth-stock analyst at work.   Dangerous game. 

I can think of a few names that are attractive as value plays, or maybe short-term growth opportunities--guys priced under $15K who may well make it big--but permanent P&G, Standard Oil or DuPont type of status?  What few ideas I have for that bucket are still rolling around in my head, waiting for a check to be written.

If any of us "insiders" knew the the answer to that question, we'd be "buying and holding". A fair number of collectors take a stab at it, and have accumulated good numbers of contemporary instruments. These are selected sometimes based on current name recognition, and sometimes from recommendations from violin making peers. The two methods can yield different results, but have some overlap. I suspect that the latter is a better strategy. All of these modern collectors I've run into did some playing too, so sound would have been a consideration.

A lot depends on how violins are valued in the future. Will they be strictly art objects and collectibles? Will they be art objects with utilitarian value? Will value shift in the direction of how well they work and endure in the rain during an outdoor performance?

Yes, there can certainly be different perspectives. I'm a professional violinist first, and a collector second - less for monetary investment purposes, than because I just love these things. So for me, my priorities are sound, workmanship/appearance, condition, personal appeal - and because I'm not made of money, bang for the buck.

There's one component to this question that almost no one talks about, and that is production. Let's say, for a humorous example, that I make the best violins in the world. The only problem is that to attain this level of excellence on each violin, I can only make one a year. If my career lasts fifty years, I will have made 50 violins (man, I must be getting a pretty good price for them :-)). Now compare this to someone like Stradivari who made well over a thousand violins that are almost-but-not-quite as good as mine (let's remember this is a joke) and just to add interest, let's also assume that Strad and I are (or were) contemporaries. Which one of us gets the nod as the greatest violin maker? We assume that half of Strad's violins have not survived. If half of mine survive, I enter the contest with 25 opposed to 600 of a top-flight maker. No contest.

I think it's also worth remembering that the Stradivari instruments, although beautiful and well-respected, were at one time less esteemed than the instruments of Jacob Stainer.

The level of craftsmanship and tonal qualities of contemporary violins is very high.  There are quite a few makers who have the ability to produce violins that that when compared to the old master violins can fool the finest ears.  One can assume that these skills will be passed on and since there are no secret recipes as to how to make a fine violin the luthiers of the future will continue the tradition.  There may never be the mystique or demand that has caused Strads and their ilk to command so much money.   

 If Strad were alive today he'd be getting 5 figures, not 7 or 8, for one of his instruments.

He'd also be getting pretty "long in the tooth."

This might sound really silly, but it got me thinking about the questions raised in this thread.

I was watching tv and there was a fascinating programme showing how manufacturers test their products to see how they will stand up to years of normal (and sometimes abnormal) use.  For example - a machine which could inflict 20 years of wear and tear on a carpet in less than an hour or so...

With all the technology and scientific genius out in the world today, would it not be possible to somehow develop a way - don't ask me how - in which a new violin could be subjected in laboratory conditions to the equivalent of 100 or so years of "existence" and "use" within a much shorter time scale - say a month or year?    If we can build something like the CERN - is it so beyond our capabilities?  http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/LHC-en.html

For our luthiers on here, do you find it useful to go back to an instrument you made perhaps 20 or more years ago and which has been played by a good violinist in that time, listen to it and note how certain aspects of the instrument have matured - or not, as the case may be - and then utilise these discoveries in your current work?

I know one maker (at least-- there might be others) who, as part of his "antiquing" process submits his instruments to humidity cycles that mimic the change of seasons for about 20 years.  Not quite the same, but on that path.

Send them into space.  The atmospheric changes will take their toll.

today's violins sound as good as the strads, including the good chinese brands like Jay Haide and Eastman strings. If you compare them just judging by the tone you wouldn't know what's the strad and what's the chinese one. Why we can consider ourselves lucky today? Because we've become very good at copying the strads so well!

Well, I wouldn't quite go that far, as a broad statement. But it is my considered opinion that the top 10% of todays violins compare very well to all except the top 10% of the classics - and that's pretty darn good!

If I'm more or less correct, then even accounting for condition issues of many old instruments, etc., I must conclude that even Stradivari and del Gesu did not bat every one of their instruments right out of the park. As to the magic cream at the top - such as the "Soil" Strad and "ex Kohanski/ex Rosand" del Gesu - these are no illusions. Their power, richness, their complex mix of overtones - that extra bit of magic that they and a small number of their 'siblings' posess, is real, and special. But playing on an instrument for a long time makes a significant difference. Will today's top instruments, with time and use, ever match the very finest classics? Only time will tell.

No doubt we could figure out even more ways to artificially age a new violin, but speaking as a violin maker, I would not recommend it. As I mentioned in another thread, the effects of all the artificial aging I've seen have been temporary. Faking the varnish to look old and worn is something I don't get into. Other makers can use little chains or whatever to emulate the look of a worn violin, but, like wrinkles on my face, life's little dents and dings are going to come along anyway and you might as well collect them naturally. It's a much better fit.

I've been in the craft long enough now to see instruments I made 20 or 30 years ago come back for adjustments, minor repairs, and so forth. I think of them like kids that deserve the chance to grow up in a loving family. For me, it's a really enjoyable experience.

To the list of future Strads I would definitely add Marcello Ive. I have never seen work like his. His sculpted heads are nothing short of genius, his attention to detail gifted and exceptional.

Of course his extremely limited output means that few even know the name, and that should tell us something!    

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