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Advice on fine bow shopping

Instruments: A little helpless situation

From Casey Jefferson
Posted October 6, 2009 at 06:19 PM

Ok, after some enlightening bow comparison recently, I decided to purchase a fine violin bow.

However, shopping for fine violin bow seems near impossible for me in my country (Malaysia), unless there's an exhibition on bows. I'm not sure where I can find shops with selections of fine violin bows, new or old, here in my country.

I might travel down to singapore and search for violin bows, anyone know where I can have more choices in singapore? Upon some googling it seems that it's also hard to find large selections for fine bows in singapore too but I could be wrong. And I can imagine fine bows are so rare in SEA region they're going to be much more expensive - lots of fine violins here in my country are priced even higher than regular dealer price in US/EU.

I'm thinking of ordering online, though it'll be very risky (even more than violin shopping) as bows are even more personal than violins. If i'm going to shop online, I'll look for the best and most detailed descriptions as possible, and buy from those who offer money back guarantee. I only have so much money to afford something up to $5000 (or stretch a little more if I manage to sell off my older violins), travelling to US or EU will basically reduce the budget to $3000 or even less including flight expenses and accomodations.

Or, stick to my good old $300 china bow, selling things that I don't need and hold the money until I have the chance to travel. However I feel that I'm ready to appreciate a fine violin bow. I'm learning some paganinis and other advanced bowing techniques, I find my Arcus isn't doing well for me for what I wanted to learn (and I'm getting tired of the clean and soul-less sound it draw). I even find I can do some advanced techniques on my $300 bow better than the much (MUCH) more expensive Arcus. Although the china bow I have doesn't draw a refined and powerful sound, but it's so much more expressive. I DO have another better german bow but after being advanced on bowing techniques I find I don't like its handling and sound anymore.

Basically, the china bow is doing many things for me - sautille is effortless up and down on all strings and on various speed, ricochet and saltandos are possible although require lots of effort to get the bow kicking. Upbow staccato is also OK but I'm doing the stiff bow way - the bow is bouncing resulting short and not so clear articulation. Down bow staccato is also OK but only certain area from middle point and up. I find doing lots of techniques are possible, but very tiring to execute them continously.

Anyway I came across an online deal on a very fine Claude Thomassin. I'm basically clueless about the characteristic of different makers can give, and upon researches show that his bows seems to be on the light side, and very flexible/refined instead of strong/powerful. I'd prefer flexible and refined sound with lots of controls, and this bow seems to match my preference. I'd really like to know more about this maker and his bows - playing characteristics, and your opinions on his bows.

I have a good feeling that I'll be keeping my china bow and use it for long time before I have a chance to purchase a fine violin bow. Nevertheless, any opinions are welcomed, and very sorry for the extra long post.

Cheers!

Forgot to add that I'm particulary not happy with the continous ricochet, I can't seems to do it without using the bow like a whip - which resulted very sloppy passages and there's nothing else I can do about it. Though, saltandos seems to be easier, but I've seen some players that they can slow it down and become seperate bowings, which I can't seems to do.

And the last bit of my initial post, should be "bad feeling" instead of "good feeling"...

 Casey,

I have a Claude Thomassin, which is actually for sale at Prier & Son in Salt Lake. It's selling for $15k, so it may be beyond your price range. As you mentioned, it is a flexible and refined bow. 

Scott

I appreciate your dilemma about the geography - I've bought bows while living in both Auckland, NZ then Paris so I can say it's nice to have a big selection. There's been more and more bow makers at Musicora in Paris in recent years (usually March or April), but combined with what you might see there with what's available at local luthiers you should be able to pick up something very nice indeed in the €2300 - €2600 range. A few days in Paris would allow you to check out quite a few possibilities. You could take a direct flight KL-Paris. I know that tickets right through to NZ can be got for 800 or 900 + taxes, so from halfway they must be a bit less than that.

Thanks for the inputs!

Scott - Thanks for your informations! $15k, that'll be waaay beyond my range. Regarding the online deal, I was told that it's worth $12k but due to special reason (a valid one) the seller is willing to let it go for so much less. I still can afford it if I'm able to gather enough funds asap. But that said, buying bows online is really quite a risk, although great chances that it might suits me, it's a fine bow anyway. It's tempting, and yet helpless.

Nigel - Guess I'll have to save up more for the travels. It's not that I can't do anything with my current bows, but this time I really feel that I'm stucked and needed something to help on my learning progress. :-(

Hi Casey,

If you are looking for advice on what's in Singapore, you may want to get in touch with the Yong Siew Toh Conservatory at NUS or members of the Singapore Symphony.  They could probably advise you on what's in Singapore and where to look if there is anything there.  If there is nothing there, your closest next best bet geographically could be Hong Kong.  

With bows, you really need to try them in person since each bow reacts differently to each violin.

Cheers and best of luck!

Hi Christian,

Thanks for your informations! Hong Kong, that's a great idea! Travelling to Hong Kong is so much cheaper and there're low cost airlines will do the job pretty nicely. I've been there before, I speak their language well too (in fact, it's one of my mother tongue)!

And you mentioned about orchestra players, there's actually a fantastic Malaysian Philharmonic over here, and I happened to know one of the player! However, the player, although a fantastic violinist (Julliard School graduate) but funny that he's got more like a chinese way of thinking - I spend a lot of money on instrument/bow, I still get the same pay as if I'm using cheaper instrument/bow. Don't get me wrong, he absolutely know how to appreciate fine instruments and bows, but it seems to everything is expensive to him lol! He likes the idea of no-name violin and bow that plays/sounds fantastic, which will be so much cheaper (he plays on bow/violin that not exceeding $10k in total, I think a lot less than that).

Thanks again for reminding me that same bow doesn't suit all violins. I'm getting more convinced that I should shop the bow in person than gambling online (online casino is never a good idea)!

I took the plunge and ordered a fine old french bow online - they offer a return guarantee so I don't feel like I'm gambling except to pay the shipping fee which is not too much compared to travelling abroad.

Long story short - it's such a surprise of what a fine bow can do! It feels nothing in the hand, neither it's frog or tip heavy, in a way that it feels like I can do many things from the frog right up to the tip and it won't choke the sound, pretty much like the extension of my arm.

The stick feel strong and yet not stiff, though I wouldn't place it in the "soft" catagory. It does everything from basic to intermediate so much easier than ever, it just make me sound better and at the same time less effort. For some unknown reason, it seems to helped my intonations too.

It's still the early stage of getting used to this bow, still struggle a little to pull off some advanced bowing techniques. It feels rather different from what I played before, I will report back of my findings after a few days of trying out this bow.

All in all, it was eye opening. The expressiveness and general feel I got from this bow is quite different, and the sound character is pretty different from what I would get from new pernambuco bow or carbon fiber. I wish I could tell who made the bow - it's an unstamp bow without any certificates, hence a lower price than what I expected. If there's a famous maker's name on it with certificate accompanied, it would fetch much more that it might be well above my budget.

Congratulations on finding a bow! It's harder to find a good bow that matches with your playing than it is to find a good violin. If you ordered it online, I'd have it checked by a luthier (if at all possible) to make sure there is nothing fundamentally wrong with it (such as the bow is prone to breaking at the tip, or something... I came across one of these when I was looking for mine). Go through the normal checks (warp, see if it's been repaired, the frog is loose).

But, yea.. It took me weeks to find a bow I fell in love with, and I couldn't be happier with it; I know how you feel.  So congratulations :).

Just a little update on the bow.

I'm still impressed by the bow after playing for a month, it feels really great. My paganini caprice #1 had a break through and suddenly it feels like the caprice (in fact, any piece of music I've learned so far) isn't that difficult at all - because I have less things to take care (bow arm).

Not just the playability, the sound it produced really amaze everyone. In a small room, the sound it draw doesn't make any impression except a very clean articulations. But when playing in the showroom of a bigger space, it really open up like a blooming flower and will cut through the noisy crowds and clash of piano testing noises without being harsh or loud.

It complement my violin so well in many ways, I can't believe I got the right bow in a single shot without even the need to travel. Although I never try enough bows to prove I made a correct purchase (though there's one and only nice bow by J.P. Bernard from Pierre Guillaume's workshop, but not as good in both sound and playability), but it satisfy me in many ways and I don't think there's anymore need to try another one.

I think this bow will last me for a very, very long time, unless I so good enough to outgrow it.

PS: Mark, thanks for your words, congratulation on your purchase too!

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