Violinist.com - Because you can't say enough about the violin

News by E-mail

Printer-friendly version

If I were a first grader....

Teaching: Overcoming that first hurdle of using the head weight/jaw to support the violin...trying to preclude that "it's hard/tense up!" reflex

From Kathryn Woodby
Posted October 4, 2009 at 08:16 AM

My weekend project is to think like a first grader--this happens somewhat regularly, as my fridays are almost exclusively beginner lessons this year and Friday morning is my first grade bloc at the school I teach at.  Today was "playing position day" for this year's batch, and in fact, most of them established their violin balance fairly naturally for the first time...but there always seem to be a few who just can't bring themselves to put any head weight into the violin and consequently, it won't stay up. 

How do you all work with this?  I have several different teaching approaches I've used; modeling, imagery of "resting" on the chinrest, adjusting how I teach the playing position so that it falls more naturally for most; checking the chinrest setup, adding softness, etc.  But I'm looking for more ideas on how to overcome that chinrest-phobia, and also how to help them really find where that jaw weight need to rest and balance.

From Marina Fragoulis
Posted on October 6, 2009 at 04:30 PM

While I think teaching kids the right way is of utmost importance, I always take the time to stand back and see what kids can teach me.  Children are incredibly natural in their motions, and their instincts can sometimes be trusted more than our own.  I think a child has a natural aversion to pressing their head down on the chinrest because it is an unnatural expectation of our bodies to do so.  I would take a different approach and really listen when the kid says "that doesn't feel good" because really, playing the violin should not feel like that.

I have actually been experimenting with lifting my chin from the chinrest myself and finding it a lot more comfortable in so many ways. 

From Helen Martin
Posted on October 27, 2009 at 02:36 PM

 Greetings Kathryn-

Are you aware of THE TEACHING OF ACTION IN STRING PLAYING, by Paul Rolland and Marla Mutschler? or of the DVDs that relate to this book? I believe that there is a link to the DVDs at my web site, reached by clicking my name.

 

From Stephen Brivati
Posted on October 28, 2009 at 11:20 PM

Greetings,

I second all the comments above.  I think this kind of thing can be approached in reverse sometimes.  that is,   enocurage experimentation playing without the head on the chinrest at all. Turning the head to the right and left.  Incidentally,  there is a beautiful exercise for warming up bowing and lossening neck vertabrea in Menuhins book on violin tehcnique.  Will scribe it later for you.

Another technique I use is when shifting up,  have the student actually look at the ceiling.  Its a wonderfully freeing little exercise.

Incidentally, if the studnet is holding the violin (supporting it actually) with the left hand that`s very healthy.   It`s how I play and teach.

Cheers,

Buri

From Sue Bechler
Posted on October 28, 2009 at 11:43 PM

 

If you look at the childrens' physiques, you may find that a  number of the ones who struggle with this have almost no "shelf" at the collarbone area, so though they may be trying to use their head weight as you describe, there's little or nothing underneath for the violin to rest on.  It is not generally good to pull the shoulder forward & up trying to form a suitable foundation area. You could try tiny shoulder rests or sponge rests. Also, some children who struggle with this have a very strong dominant eye, so they are wanting to get their heads situated such that that eye can look down the strings.

From Stephen Brivati
Posted on October 29, 2009 at 01:10 AM

Greetings,

Sue`s comment about eyes is reallybimportnat and I try to incorporate this somewhat esoteric aspect into my teaching at times.  Its something I learnt from Alexander Technique.

Basically,  very whole body coordinated people lead with their opposite eye when turning the body. IE If you are going to turn right lead with your left eye.  The klutzes will lead with the same side eye.   You can pracitcve this with studnets simpy by walking back and forth across a room with a turn done both ways. Discuss with the studnet the differnec ein feeling accoridng to which eye lead.

The implication for violin playig is thta any action involving turing the head should take this into account.

Cheers,

Buri

From Kathryn Woodby
Posted on October 29, 2009 at 08:33 PM

Thanks all, for your feedback!  I do use a lot of the Rolland principles and the Alexander principles I'm familiar with.  I think one of the keys is what Marina and Buri mentioned, only I wouldn't have dreamed it until I started experimenting with my own position again this summer--the freedom to lift the head a bit.  I have always come from the approach that that the head weight is the main balance factor, and I'm just starting to realize how the balance does shift between the head/collarbone, and support from the hand and arm.  And I have started using that in my teaching this year with about a 90% success rate so far on getting my students relatively  comfortable with their positions (still some solidifying to do but they're getting it!)  I still have a couple though...actually, I was thinking after reading Buri's remark, about coming from that opposite directon this week with the ones that just still are very awkward: finding where the violin rests with proper collarbone and arm support, freeing the head, and eventually letting it come to rest when it's comfy.  We'll see how it goes!!....

From Kathryn Woodby
Posted on November 2, 2009 at 10:23 PM

Thanks again all, tentative success so far applying your principles plus a fun moment of spur-of-the moment creativity:  We pretended their heads were balloons, floating in the air, while I helped them place their violin balance--and when the heads came down, they came down naturally and the balance is starting to distribute between shoulder and arm and counterbalance of the head.   Discovered another problem though which I'll post separately to get a fresh wave of ideas.  By the way Buri, I would love references to the Menuhin you're talking about, maybe i'll pick it up somewhere if I can find it.  Thanks!

From Stephen Brivati
Posted on November 5, 2009 at 05:08 AM

Greetings,

Kathryn, sorry for the delay.  Here is the whole quote:

>`Take the matter of string crossings.  Draw at the tip a down-bow on the g string and an up bow on the e string.  Do this in fairly rapid succession,  allowing the head to adjust and move freely.   You will notice that,  on the up bow,  the head does in fact  move to the left and,  on the down bow,  to the right.  If,  however,  you do the anti-clockwise rotation,  which is down-bow on the e string and up-bow on the g,  you will notice  that the natural motion induces the head to go to the left on the down-bow and to fall to the right on the up-bow.  This is,  in fact,  a veyr good exericse to loosen the neck and to allow the head to balance freely without tension on the vertebrae.<

Violin and Viola (Yehudi Menuhin and William Primrose) Pp. 38.

Some of the book is a tad off the planet but this section which is an extensive discussion of body rotation is just awesome.  To see it perfectly in acton there is no better model than David Oistrakh.  Study his whole body movement on DVD veyr carefully.  The energy of his playing orinates in his toes,  is propelled by the knees and hips in a whole body spiral that expresses itself in the delicay of his hands and majesty of his playing.   Truly unique.  Must be all the vodka and borscht.

Ironically,  Menuhin really wanted to study with Oistrakh....

Cheers,

Buri

From Sara McDowell
Posted on November 8, 2009 at 03:10 AM

"Also, some children who struggle with this have a very strong dominant eye, so they are wanting to get their heads situated such that that eye can look down the strings."

And this is quite interesting to me, as well, as an adult beginner with an amblyopic (lazy) left eye.  The best way of describing what an amblyope sees through that eye is:  it is like trying to see through a very black, very opaque shower curtain.  So there is very little vision in that eye.  

Although my left eye has, obviously, been this way since I was very, very young, and it is not something I even think much about, I presume that it does, in fact, present some sort of weirdness in how things line up through my field of vision looking down at my strings.

Oh, and plus the fact that I wear a bifocal contact in my "good" eye :-)

~Sara

(New to posting but not new to reading violinist.com) 

Music Giveaway

Mark O'Connor Mark O'Connor's method books -- released this week -- teach students using many styles of American music. Enter to win a set of the books this week, on Violinist.com. Photo: Deanna Rose

Search

Discussion Topics

Instruments
3173 threads

Repertoire
1741 threads

Life in general
1161 threads

Technique
1077 threads

Violinists
850 threads

Practicing
809 threads

Schools
684 threads

Teaching
650 threads

Performing
557 threads

CD reviews
321 threads

Health
297 threads

Auditions
241 threads

Orchestra
216 threads

Concert review
157 threads

News
92 threads

DVD reviews
69 threads

For sale
60 threads

Recordings
24 threads