From al ku
Posted March 23, 2008 at 06:35 PM
since i have nothing to do with it,,,all i care to know is how a real one looks like...
But who knows...maybe it sounds as good, or better, than the pink Ebay violins?
If you look at the sellers history, in the last 90 days-he baught a 10-bow bow case, a brand new "light violin case", an "antique florentine" style bow, and 2 sets of Red Label strings, amongst much else.
Interesting shopping list for someone who "inherited" a violin and is a medical professional and "does not play violin".
PPS-Somebody is going to be quite sad when their wallet is $10000 lighter
I'll bet the violin was purchased through one of the sellers numerous private auction purchases in the last 90 days also-because they're private you can't see the item.
No way is it authentic. No way. It's a shame you need to be an Ebay member to report probabale fraudulent auctions-or I would.
*Hopefully* it is someone pumping the bids up-and not a legit buyer.
You are quite right and, appearance aside, I was being very generous in my assessment of the odds. I just hope and pray that nobody makes a terrible mistake with this one.
it is also a reflection on how people can sum up their creative energy to play games on Ebay, of all things they could have done instead more constructively, with just a bit more conscience.
but all in all, i find the listing very comical. it is so outrageous that i just have to crack up.
Here in Poland, there is a site called allegro which is the Polish e-bay equivalent. However, each and every purchase is a legal contract and seen as such by the law. Recently (probably last year now - time does fly when you have kids) there was a scam/joke that made the news because someone bought or had a seven seater or some such bigger vehicle and wanted to know it's worth. So for a bit of a joke, they tried to 'sell' it on allegro for below its actual value. There was a buyer. It was then that the seller informed the buyer that it wasn't a 'real' sale. Well the seller thought otherwise and took the guy to court. The court ruled that a legal contract had been entered into and the seller was obliged to 'find' a vehicle that matched the description given on allegro (he may have had to buy one at a higher price) and then sell it to the buyer for the final bid price.
Costly joke. Surely some similar legal safeguards are in place in the US?
(Except of course, Montagnanas are probably are sight harder to find than a used car of whatever description?)
1. ebay makes its share of money.
2. ebay makes its share of money.
3. seller is happier than the buyer because to ebay the seller pays the commission.
when it comes to issue resolution, many wish it is allegro paced:)
He's trying to keep his con-auction on the front page of Ebay I'd bet-and with no one other than seemingly shill bids he figures an auction JUST below reserve is a better bait.
Especially since no one yet seems dumb enough to take the bait.
Bernadette, they cannot do that when an auction is live. It is known as 'auction interference' and I think they take it fairly seriously. Otherwise, anybody could scare off bidders just to get the item themselves for a low price.
Rosalind, that person is going to get screwed either way because if you retract a bid for that reason, you have to then enter the correct bid. If they didn't bid again, they're in violation of site policy.
Anne, fortunately he only THINKS he doesn't take returns. If the buyer pays by Paypal, decides to file a 'significantly not as described' claim and wins, it must be returned.
Has anyone reported it? I'm a member (although not for long, the way things are going).
You can withdraw a bid without any penalty. It is done all the time. I do believe you are limited to three bid retractions every six months. It used to be limitless.
Note to self: start reading all the mail from eBay.
PS I looked just now, and it's stated to be 1% on items over $200, with $50 maximum, so if it doesn't sell he'll owe $50 plus regular fees. Another reason to go back to v.1.0. This is like doing taxes.
"I am very certain the item listed is being grossly misrepresented. I am also quite certain that shill bidding is taking place with respect to the item in question. I strongly urge you to contact the seller and ask some serious questions, before an innocent patron makes a huge mistake. Thank you."
Ebay sent an immediate/automatic response that said they would contact me within 24-28 hours, however they did not. If I wanted to be cynical about it, I could assume that ebay wants the listing to go through regardless, and a part of me thinks this is the case. All I know is that there are a lot of items on ebay that probably don't belong, stolen goods such as iPods, etc. (actually, this is a pretty well-known fact), but in the case of a stolen iPod ebay has no practical means of controlling the situation. However, in the case of fraudulent misrepresentation on a grand scale, supported by very strong evidence of shill bidding, they have complete control, and in this particular instance they have been given the luxury of having been informed. I do not expect the people at ebay to know any better, but I would ask them to follow through on their word, to at least make an effort.
One thing they will jump on quick is if you can provide a link that shows the pictures in the auction are lifted from some site or especially a previous auction. That proves the auction phony beyond any reasonable doubt, no item evaluation needed. It's a great resource, nothing like before in history, but you have watch out.
BTW, here's the classic parody of a phony auction :)
Is it just me, or is something missing????.....Somebody forgot to put on a Red Label G string on that obscenity :>)
All the effort on the top and ribs....and a plane shmame 2 piece maple back?????? Rip-OFF!
Keep the VSOs coming Al, they are great for brightening up the day (especially that one...)
Jim, I know where you're coming from, but I still wish ebay would have at least made an attempt at sorting this one out. I understand that the scope of what they sell is broad, and the volume huge, but if they're going to provide a means of informing them of a potentially fraudulent situation, they ought to follow through.
Ebay will constantly evolve to adapt to the need of the participants only if it improves its balance sheet to the sentiments of its investors. every move by EBay is probably supported by market research even if the buyers and sellers do not necessarily see the merit or derive benefit. Ebay probably long realizes that it is more profitable to be one-eye-open-one-eye-closed than to be a law enforcer.
the trend is Ebay's friend.
i know about ebay and paypal pretty well because i read ebay's sec filings.
what i was saying was that the business model works so well that there is basically no room for competitors. the barrier to entry is huge.
I know very little about monopoly or antitrust laws, but I do know that eBay has widened the category of sellers who must accept Paypal. They also have the authority in some cases to hold funds (again tied to the feedback issue, which will be a sham come May) until up to 21 days have passed without a complaint. It is my understanding that they collect interest on that money. Correct me if I am wrong.
I do still love eBay from a buyers perspective. I have bought items from around the world that I would never have been able to get my hands on so easily. Couple clicks of the mouse, some shipping costs, and the item is delivered to my door.
EBay is an auction. There are few, if any, guarantees when you buy at auction. If I was going to bid $10,000.00 on an item, I would arrange to either appraise it in person or hire someone to do it for me...before I bid. It is amazing what some violins do sell for on eBay and 'sight unseen' by the buyer. It comes down to how much can you afford to lose to take that risk.
This listing (180224742168) has been removed or is no longer available.
I have no idea if reporting did any good, but it made me feel better :-)
hah, the clash of good and evil on ebay and the good always has to play catch up!
i must say, looking back at my browsing of ebay violin for the past 3-4 years, it has been quite educational, probably more effective than reading or looking at book pics. i know my junks now:)
This is a description I would like to see on e.bay:
"This violin is with my family for decades, it was in the attic. Unfortunatly it's not German... And it's not new too (I know that old pianos are worthless). It needs new strings, and a bow too. There is a paper inside in which it's written: "Josef Rocca fecit - Taurini ANNO DOMINI 1846 - IHS". In the case there are strange recipes in Italian such as "Bagna Calda", "Raviole di Semolino", etc."
cut some garlic cloves in very small pieces, add some olive oil, some origano and add it to the olives. You may add some fresh red pepper too.
And here a simple, traditional Italian sauce for pasta:
peel some tomatoes, take of their seeds and cut them in dices. Cut one garlic for each tomato in small pieces and fry it in olive oil till it gets golden. Then add the tomatoes and stir for 4 seconds and turn the fire off (the tomato will remain a bit uncooked). Add some fresh basil leaves and serve with pasta and grated parmiggiano cheese.
It would be nice if you wrote a cook book, or pass a recipe in a blogg once in a while Maestro. You'll be the Maestro of Mange, the Godfather of Gastonomy. :)
You can see a tutorial I've made about scroll carving here:
what is the difference between sauce and gravy!!!???:):):)
my opinion is that the distinction may shed light on the secrets of old cremonese varnish!
VERY cool post picture post o'er there!
PS-you refer to the Biddulph GdG book, I've been Inter-Library-Loaning it lately...and I have to say, DANG that's a neat book. If I had the money I'd buy it-and if my library would let me take it out to a big enough photo-copier-I'd copy it.
How did you come about being able to view the del Gesu volumes via inter-library loan? I've been dying to do the same myself. Please let me know when you have a moment.
I'm in the midst of my master's on violin. Thus, I went on WorldCat-looked up the WorldCat citation-and gave it to the ILLiad people at my Uni, paid a $10 (USD) fee for the item- and they found it for the cheapest price, it wasn't a freebee, but for a $900 book I have for over 1 month and can then renew-I'm not griping. They said there were several-possibilities ranging from $10-$21 USD, so I won't get entirely in your way ;>)
The key to finding it is WorldCat-if you and or your local library don't have access, you're REALLY missing out. If it would help, I can email or post the WorldCat citation for you to give to them.
As I recall-the loaning institution on my copy was Uni Pennsylvania.
The lending institutions can have VERY strict rules about their materials. In this case my Biddulph copy on loan is not allowed out of the library....It actually took 4 phone calls from the circulation desk people to higher-ups just to get permission for the staff to move it over to my music library (more convenient) from the academic library, down the street. The fact that I'm a grad student in music, might also have helped my cause in simply getting ahold of it to begin with, I don't know.
Currently I'm talking to my library acquisition people to buy it-it is a longshot $$$$$$ wise. It is a VERY WELL DONE bit of research. Guarneri family history, instrument bios on 25 GdGs, very detailed instrument measurements on said (probably about 100 data points or more each measured to 100ths of a milimeter), detailed instrument descriptions/appraisals on said, instrument histories on said, GdGs methods, VERY detailed bibliography.
The plate volume has detailed life-size scroll/rib/front/back photos-and the description volume has well measured arching contours. All color-balanced, all done with same camera lense and media-so at least all the string wrappings look like you know they should (gives confidence in the images having a ruler).
I'm VERY impressed.
Manfio can correct me-but lest I be mistaken, there's everything there you need to make an instrument copy (in terms of measurements)
It may "only" be 300-400 pages, but the pages are double columned, on at LEAST 11X21 paper. It took my 4 hours of reading to make it through the 20pg (double columned) GdG bio they made.
Thank you so much for the information. You have me wanting all the more to find a way to acquire a copy of my own. I am told that the stock may run out in a year or so, which has me in a bit of a panic!
Please send me the WorldCat citation via private message, and I'll speak with my local library again. Seeing how I live in a small town, it may be a long shot, but definitely worth a try.
Happy hunting :>)
PS-I might be istaken-but I thought that it was ONLY the "deluxe" edition that was a 500 copy limited run. At least that is the impression off Biddulphs website.
That said I guess E-Bay smartened up and canceled the auction, I can't see the violin.
Actually, such people often claim "Italian violin", give you a photo of the label (itself a doctored photocopy) and say something like "as I am not a violin expert I cannot confirm the authenticity" - but they hope you'll think it's at least Italian anyway.
Quite apart from workmanship and modelling, the fake labels are often dead giveaways, but I can't say in what ways, because I don't want to alert fakers to their common mistakes!
"Anne, fortunately he only THINKS he doesn't take returns. If the buyer pays by Paypal, decides to file a 'significantly not as described' claim and wins, it must be returned."
Yu know, people always say that, because it's the official, printed Paypal policy, but do you know anyone who ACTUALLY ever got reimbursed by Paypal?
I have gone to great trouble and expense, several times, to prove a "fraudulent seller" claim to Paypal. Each time, after months of effort, dozems of phone calls, begging professionals to give me an appraisal (at substatial cost) because they don't want to get involved, I won each case. Paypal did everything in their power to cause my claim to fail, but I managed to outwit them, and force them to find in my favor.
ONE SMALL PROBLEM: I have yet to see a dime returned. Fraudulent sellers who get caught on high-dollar items simply close their Ebay / Paypal accounts, once they know you've got them & just before Paypal makes its ruling.
So buyer beware. the Paypal protection plan is worthless.
I hope everyone sees my last post.
Paypal must die!
as i said in an earlier post, this ebay/paypal combo is as much a monopoly as it can be. bottom line, it can get away with many things because users do not have a ready alternative.
several years ago, i got the kids computers with windows already installed. what do i know that after couple years the window program will expire so i must update to a new version as i found out by surprise?
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