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Passione strings

From Ray Randall
Posted April 16, 2007 at 04:24 AM

First thoughts:

Pro: 1) Very nice rich, warm tone. 2) Capable of a wide range of dynamics.

Con: 1) Slower bow response than my usual Vision Titanium Solos. 2) The Passione E does not "sing" on my violin, although I like the warm sound. 3)These strings require more attention to the bow contact point. 4)Shifting not as smooth. (Must be the winding.) 5) Not as responsive to small changes in vibrato as Vision Titanium. Sorry if some of these things have already been said.

I'm really hoping that a day or two will make a difference but right now it's a choice between tone and playability.

----------

ahh http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=10965

Cheers, John

Perhaps after a week these will be my new choice for strings.

I don't want to try moving the bridge (or sound post) to improve the A and E because my set up is perfect for a Vision Titanium GDA and an Obligato E . Also, because there are so many possible combinations, I would rather not start experimenting with different gauges in the Passiones.

Thanks!

-Caveat- this is my #2 fiddle, which only gets played about 1 hr every other day. Still, very impressive.

I'm not a huge fan of ANY wound gut D & A, preferring pure gut, but the Passiones have a lovely singing quality. A bit thin, but very expressive. I think that as long as your violin is not exceptionally bright, you will like them very much.

Love them? well, I've never quite understood love, so what can I tell you? Lust after them? Yes, probably.

Where did you find heavy gauge Passiones? As of a month ago, they were basically unavailable. Please give me an url!

PLEASE tell me where you found heavy gauge Passiones. I searched again today, and simply can't find anything but medium sets.

www.johnsonstring.com/cgi-bin/stringsearch/stringsearch.cgi?inst=VN&brand=PAS

You can choose 14 gauge for the A and D, and 17 gauge for the G. Select "thick" for the E string.

To say that I love these strings is an understatement.

In a fit of passion and extreme supplication that Pirastro come out with viola ones, I wrote them this:

"Congratulations on a superb gut violin string! They do stay in tune pretty well for gut, and played in very quickly. I have had them on for 2-3 months now. I LOVE their sound. The overtones are beautiful and rich. These strings are just gorgeous. They blow every synthetic (yes, even Pirastro's, as fine as many of them are!) out of the water. These are my strings of choice for my violin, a beautiful 2006 violin that has a big, cathedral-filling sound and soaring high notes. Passione strings just make it sound even better! I hope these strings, or a similar approach in gut, will be applied to viola (especially viola, my other instrument!) and cello strings. A string quartet, much less a whole orchestra playing these strings would just shine!"

They liked that so much, they posted it on their website! =8). I still stand behind it, and I'm still pleading for a viola version!

To add: they are very responsive, definitely more so compared to Eudoxas and Olivs. I find string pitch stability to be over-rated and a marketing ploy (steel strings are very stable, but shoot me if someone puts Red Labels on any of my instruments . . . ). But, once played it (not long), they are very stable and will get you through to intermission without any mishaps.

I use a different E, though. Larsen's Tzigane. I love that E. It's a different sound, but it has gotten under my skin . . .

My violin really sounds best with Olives or Eudoxas, but I am not willing to tolerate the hassles that come with these strings. My bow arm technique also works best with wound gut, and that is probably because I learned on Gold Labels. I have been using Larsen Tziganes, but I like Passione better so far. The Tziganes sounded a little "woofy", especially in the mid-range.

It did take a week or so for the Eudoxa strings to settle, but since then they've been incredibly stable, despite some rather dramatic changes in climate. Yes, I do have to tune them at the start of the day, and sometimes once or twice during the day, but they are never off too far and for me this is no hassle having played classical guitar for a while (nylon strings on a classical guitar require a lot more TLC than my Eudoxa set, for sure).

Anyway, my reason for switching to Passione strings, were I to do so, would have to be arise purely out of the desire for greater sonic quality or character. However, for now I remain in a trance with this most lovely set of Eudoxa strings!

How would you describe the difference, tonally & response-wise, between the Eudoxas and the Passiones? I never had a chance to directly compare them.

A word on responsivness and gut...gut is WAY more responsive than any synthetic string I have tried. In fact, my stacatto playing rose to another level when I went to gut, it's that responsive!

I had a lesson today, and had my teacher play my violin for me, and my suspicions were correct. He suggested a sound-post tweak, but I am going to wait until the break-in period is over before I do that. I might slap on a Wondertone Gold Label E first...

Do the Passiones give more overtones to coax out of the violin, yet still as responsive to bowing as the Titaniums?

I realize that one must experiment, but the new Passione strings are an expensive switch, not to mention the possibility of a tonal adjustment.

For those who have been using the Passione strings for several months now, what is your response to the strings over a several months?

Thank you.

Regular gut strings are not an option because of their unpredictability, but these new Passione strings sound like an interesting compromise.

I would say they did not loose any real playabitily and the smoother the windings got the easier it was shifting into higher postions. There was some loss of tonal complexity and quality yet they are so excellent to start with they were still quite good. Also found that the response was just a little slower but not by much. What was a nice suprise is that they maintained that wonderful soft feel through out the whole time.

I used wondertone gold lable E for years, thinking it was the most balanced through all my comparing. But I just started trying the "new generation", Wondertone Solo. They have the same balance of bright and sweet, and are a bit more brilliant without being "too much". A more complex and singing tone, really ringing and projecting in the hall.

Also, I had Vision Titaniums on for awhile, but I like the Passiones better. The Titaniums are great for ease of playing (left hand), they never go out of tune, and they project out like nobody's business, but they lacked in character. The Passiones get a lot more interesting sounds on my violin. The Titaniums were really hard on my bow arm: it took a lot of work to coax some color out. I heard from my re-hair guy that the Vision Solos have more interesting tonal character, but I haven't tried them yet.

Update on the Passiones: They have been on a week and a half. They still stretch. But that is OK. I have rosined ONCE since putting them on. And I play a lot...I have been using Tartini rosin (huge stash!), so maybe there is a rosin that works better with Passiones. What rosin is everybody using with their Passiones? Also, the A sounds better than it was first installed, but I might try an Obligato A with the next set. I am interested to see how long these strings last...

Also, how are Eudixa Brillant D and G compared to Olives? They're so much more affordable!!!

If so, what do you think?

Pitch stability: The first couple days really sucked. After that, they were just as stable as the Pirazzis.

Projection: Great projection. Maybe not quite as brilliant as Pirazzis (what is?) but they do just as good a job getting the sound to the back of a hall (I did some blind tests vs. Pirazzis with colleagues, neither string seemed to be weaker at the back of a hall).

Response: Very quick. In my experience, though, you have to be much more careful about the manner of your attack...you can do a lot more with these strings but you can also mess up in a lot more ways.

Colour: The whole spectrum.

anyway- what happened to the passione strings -question mark-

shar doesn't list them anymore and southwest strings says out of stock for the last month or more.

i really like the e and would like to try it again.

also, what about the different thicknesses for these strings. are they available yet.

what in the world is going on with these strings...

http://www.johnsonstrings.com/stringsearch/stringsearch.htm

Word must have got out on this web site...

What rosin works with these strings? I have been using my (stockpiled) Tartini, but it is too zippy and crunchy. Would Hill Light be better? Or Olive? Any suggestions? I thought I would try a bunch out...Thanks.

I've been using the Evah/Oliv rosin - haven't had any complaints.

I really may not have given them a full chance, but really did not like them and put my Dominants back on...

if someone wants them, I will trade for a Dominant string or 2

~~Blake~~

http://tinyurl.com/ytfskg

I can vouch for the increased focus, as they really helped with an unfocused G string problem I was having.

Last year I had over a dozen brands of rosin in my studio but have given away or sold most of them. Besides the Salchow and Paginini I kept the Olive, Tartini, Jade, Sartory, and Guillaume. But I don't think any of these will be the answer.

I'm happier today with the Passiones but ordered a set of Tziganes. They seem to have a wider ranger of color on my instrument. I have had trouble with the Tziganes in that the G and D seemed to require a lot more bow pressure after two weeks. But that was before I tried a lot of different rosins. I'm hoping the right rosin will solve the G-D problem.

Sorry this is so long. To get to the point - I would really appreciate comments on mixing rosin. And one more thing - has anyone tried Liebenzeller Gold II rosin with Passiones or Tziganes?

Gary, I had Tziganes on before Passiones, and I had the same issues with the lower strings. My re-hair guy noticed the same on his fiddles, so he did a combo of Tzigane E-A-D, with Vision Titanium G. He claimed it evened out the sound. Worth a try?

More expensive but far better than anything I used before. I like it a lot.

I also (finally) got a hold of some new rosins: Bernardel, and Hill Light. I think the Bernardel is going to work out quite nicely. I didn't need to use a lot, and it doesn't have that horrible, harsh edge that the Tartini had with the Passiones.

A pity about the Tartini rosin too...I stocked up with 6 cakes when it was announced that it was being discontinued...and Tartini is so fabulous for synthetics. I used it for Tzigane, Obligato, and Vision Titanium strings with great success. Oh well.

The Tartini is now available again (which you can find by searching on Google.) Out of curiosity, I would like to buy two cakes of Tartini rosin from you for the going market price. I would send payment first so you have no risk. Email me at tcarlsenhome@yahoo.com if interested in trading.

Also, from what I have heard, the Andrea Bang rosins have the same recipes as the Tartini rosins. (Is this true?)

Tartini was made by Andreas Bang. I suspect that the new rosins are all essentially the same as Tartini.

(BTW: there's also a sort of "Fake" tartini being sold that has nothing to do with Andreas, but I have no need to try it)

A belated thanks for the tip on Johnson Strings. Got me a set of heavier guage, and I liked them a LOT more than the mediums.
Also, they seemed to last a little longer as well. Of course "last" is a nebulous term. for me, as soon as they settle-in, I need that sound to remain. Once a little bit of harmonics go away, I must change them. So, when I say the heavier gauge Passiones lasted longer, I mean in a very significant way.

I'm still a pure-gut + steel "E" kida' guy, most of the time, but Passione heavy now resides on my darkest good fiddle.

Still enjoying the Passiones immensely.

Also, for my violin, the weaker A issue I had was corrected when I substituted the Passione E with my old favorite, the Wondertone Gold Label E. Happiness all around...

Edit: (Just the sound of one chain yanking. I am grumpy today.)

Speaking of prices, I noticed that the Pirastro and Thomastik brand strings got more expensive this month, and assume that this is due to the weakness of the Dollar against the Euro. But what I remember over the years, whenever the Dollar is weak against the Euro, or the old Deutsche Mark, the string prices get higher. When the Dollar is strong, I have never noticed the string prices getting lower...So factoring in rising manufacturing, transportation, material, and labor costs, maybe these high prices are here to stay? Even if the Dollar gains some traction against the Euro?(Correct me if I am wrong, please).

Carolyn, not that this is an answer to the specific question you asked, but Evah's are a lot brighter than Eudoxas on my violin. And, if Eudoxas are somewhat similar to Passiones, then perhaps you could draw a similar correlation between Passiones and Evah's.

Well, I guess if tone quality and playability aren't high on your list of priorities...

Comparing strings... Evahs, Eudoxas, Olivs and Passiones are quite different.

Evahs are synthetic, with the new-core type. They tend to be bright and require quite a bit of bow pressure to respond because of the tension. They project quite a bit, but of course there is a downside in terms of range of tone colours.

Eudoxas differ from Olivs in that they are a little more easy going with a more intimate sound. The Olivs, especially the stiff version feel like a beefed up Euxoda, with a huge range of colours.

If the Passiones on the market are similar to the prototypes that Pirastro sent me to try during their design process, I would say that they are somewhere in between sythetics and gut. You are somewhere in between in all aspects, so for some instruments they may be a good compromise for someone wanting something of both worlds, but neither one also.

In the end, it depends what you want and how you want to play.

Cheers!

I'll let you all know in about a month how it goes!

That seems puzzling to me. Evahs are brilliant, loud strings, and I think it is unlikely that the Passione strings would be noticably louder and brighter.

I think that the new bridge is simply better than the old one, creating better volume. The fact that the old bridge broke suggests that something was wrong with it. By the way, different shaped bridges can create different sound patterns. Thinner bridges can sound brighter than thicker ones.

I think that maybe you now have a better bridge. Be happy.

It is better to have to learn how to play and control a violin that has plenty of power in reserve -- like a fancy sports car -- than it is to play with a violin that has weak projection. With your new, improved violin, you don't need to press as hard, just as you should not put the pedal to the metal very often with a sports car unless you really need that power for something special. Lay off the gas!

I like them

Good range of colour
Nice thick gritty bite

I seem to play more in tune
They seem to stay in tune

Let's see how long they last.

gc

Concord strings has lower shipping costs, which gives them a total price advantage.

I've now put Passione (medium) strings on three violins, and although they seem really nice under the chin, they are better on a dark instrument than on a bright one - at least in my case.

They do have the same disadvantages gut strings have always had; they go sharp when you go to an air-conditioned, dry environment. So people who practice or teach at home and rehearse or perform in treated-air environments are going to want to get to the venue almost 2 hours early.

I like them -- but.

The Passione steel E seems to be a good string sounding string.

Andy

They are developing into a very warm older tone you can chew on. They feel
softer than the hybrids under the fingers. Doublestops, at least those in tune because the D needs constant tuning back up, kind of reach out, grab you and suck you into their world. A slow, wide vibrato with the emphasis, of course, on the going up part is very soulful while a short intense one is exciting.
A day and a half later the A is starting to stabilize, ring more and is still darkening and warming up.
After maybe a half day the D it is starting to get luscious and warm like a Winter fire for two in a cabin in the woods with Robert Frost giving a personal reading of "stopping by the Woods on
a snowy evening."
The G goes on tomorrow.

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