Beta BlockersLife in general: Opinions, experiences....
From Ryan Beauchamp
Has anyone used them? Do they work?
I'm afraid to try them and possibly get addicted and need them before performances and/or auditons.
From Maura GeretyI remember there was a girl at summer music camp a few years ago who took some beta blockers that were not prescribed to her, and she probably took the wrong dosage, and the end result was that in the middle of the concert her hands seized up and she couldn't play. It was really freaky. I've heard some other nasty stories about beta blockers.
Posted on January 3, 2007 at 08:02 PM
However, it is well known that bananas contain a chemical similar to medicinal beta blockers, so sometimes when you go backstage you see everyone is gnawing on bananas to calm their nerves. I'd try that rather than the pills. :)
From Kristian Rahbek KnudsenIf you are so nervous about performing that you feel the need for that kind of drugs, it indicates that you are not prepared well enough. Prepare better or choose less demanding repertoire that you feel comfortable playing.
Posted on January 3, 2007 at 08:03 PM
Beta blockers are heart medicine and even though some musicians use them I am heavily against them. If you feel that uncomfortable playing a pice then don't.
Frequent use of heart medicin will reduce the effect of this medication and come back to haunt you later in life if you should develop heart condition.
I know of soloplayers in a top international orchestra who use them even during rehearsal. Pardon my french but that is just sick!
From al kuis this a musical board anymore?:)
Posted on January 3, 2007 at 08:21 PM
your question is pretty vague and you did not even mention why you want to take them...
but in general, at higher dose, it is for cardiac related issues, but at very low dose, it may help some people with performance anxiety which causes heart to race and the b blockers slow down the race. some people with sweaty palms, chest palpitations, etc may also benefit from it.
b blockers are not known to be addictive, unlike violin playing. if one has an addictive personality, everything looks like bananas.
From Terry HsuI have friends who take them for performance purposes and have had good experience with them.
Posted on January 3, 2007 at 09:20 PM
I spoke to a friend of mine who is a doctor and asked if they could be addictive or dangerous in any way. She is a very health-conscious person. (For example, she weighs all of her food before she eats it)
She says that the health risks of beta blockers is minimal. In fact she was completely indifferent to them when I mentioned any potential concern.
I certainly wouldn't take the word of some schmo on violinist.com but I don't they are a big problem. It surprised me when my doctor friend told me that, but I'm inclined to go with her opinion.
I've never taken beta blockers and have no intention of ever doing so. Maybe if I have a heart condition and a doctor prescribes them to me, I will. If one can channel one's nervous energy into a performance, I figure you're probably better off.
From al kui am not sure who to believe, schmos on v.com or a doctor who weighs her food.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 12:21 AM
From Jesse Irons(getting some popcorn to watch the fireworks...)
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 12:57 AM
From Jude ZiliakKristian, I think you misunderstand why people take beta blockers. They are virtually never a one time tool to "help" with a nerve-racking piece. They are usually used repeatedly in response to a pattern of serious performance anxiety.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 01:10 AM
From Jude ZiliakI'm guessing that Ryan is more worried about dependency than addiction as such. It's true of course that they are not addictive drugs, but they can become a very undesirable crutch; chronic users risk forgetting how to cope with nerves in an undrugged state and losing confidence in their own strength of mind.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 01:18 AM
From al kui think none of the schmos on v.com are really qualified to provide diagnoses and treatment plans on this issue. some are totally clueless, some are marginally knowledgable and a few may have medical background in other specialties. and i doubt the doctor who weighs her food before intake ever treated one violinist with performance anxiety.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 01:23 AM
yet, it is important to draw a distinction between a person who needs medical/pharmaceutical intervention for anxiety and a person who can cope with the condition on his own.
with the exceptions of a few schomos, no one likes to take pills. the argument that one should use one's mind to control anxiety sounds great but is only valid to a point. some can do it while others find it hard and therefore need extra help. a condition that affects the mind should be taken seriously like a condition that affects the body. peace!
From David RussellA doctor once told me about a dangerous "rebound" issue which can occur in the heart rhythm if beta blockers are used too irregularly (stop/start) over a long period of time. I told him musicians pop them like candy. He was visibly disturbed at the apparent unconcern over the danger of irregular heart rhythm. Food for thought.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 02:37 AM
From al kudavid, i think what he meant to convey is that if you take it for a long period of time regularly and then stop ABRUPTLY, without tapering, there could be a rebound effect.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 03:12 AM
From Pieter ViljoenI think it's dangerous to take beta blockers. If you want to be a performer, you have to learn to deal with it. It's been tempting for me to use them, many times in the past but I resist.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 04:25 AM
I sometimes get incredibly nervous for a performance, to such a point that most of it might be in tune and the notes might be all there, but I lose my sound and my bow control goes south.
I've found the best remedy is being very sure of yourself. This november I had to go play for a teacher, and the whole thing was incredibly intimidating. I was worried I would play horribly for her because I'd be so nervous, especially she made such a legendary live recording of the piece I was about to play. However, I prepared well and to be honest, once I started playing, I wasn't very nervous. It was a bit of a breakthrough for me. There were certainly some fast passages where not all the notes were clearly heard, and I played out of tune to be sure, but I felt better than I'd ever felt.
From charles strangYou actually need a very small dose to block the adrenaline receptors in the heart to a degree sufficient to control performance shaking. I've taken them for nerves and I've taken them for blood pressure. My note of caution would be to check with your doctor if you are on other medications. Strange things can happen when meds interact.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 07:02 AM
From Christian VachonHi,
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 02:32 PM
I have mixed feelings about this, though I have never used them. Some swear by it, some have reported mixed results. Certainly, it may help with some physical things, but it will not solve the problems and nerves between one's two ears. However, if you are convinced they work, that may help that area.
That said, I would not use them without consulting a doctor and under supervision. Correct me if I am wrong (I often am...) but I remember it was orginally designed as a medication for patients who had suffered a heart attack. I know that it is used by surgeons since the side-effect of preventing shaking can be essential in surgeries of great precision as a life depends on it. That said, they are reported to have long term problematic effects.
There was an interesting special on Radio-Canada about their very wide-spread use in the Montreal Symphony last year. Food for thought...
From Jim W. MillerThat makes sense. Having a heart attack definitely makes you shaky and nervous.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 02:45 PM
From thierry bonnaireOne of the major downside of Propanolol is depression. It was told to me by a psychiatrist. Therefore, it should be administrated carefully.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 04:16 PM
From Neil CameronUnless I'm mistaken (which wouldn't be the first time and certainly won't be the last) beta blockers are only available by prescription from a doctor. If you were to get them any other way then you would be in breach of the law as well as qualifying as, to use a technical term, a moron.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 05:22 PM
There are good reasons the supply of certain drugs are restricted.
From michelle biscoveanuUnder a doctor's supervision( I mean right dose and KIND of beta -blocker) there's nothing wrong with using it for stage freight. It doesn't cause any dependence or addiction- but, as others have suggested, you might start to mentally rely on them too much and have a problem performing without. In young people , depending on the dose, it can drop the heart rate and blood pressure too much, causing lightheadedness . Other potential side effects, with prolonged use, are depression, erectile dysfunction in men and problems in people with asthma or diabetes. I would encourage you to ask your doctor before taking anything that was not prescribed for you.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 05:38 PM
From Terry Hsusorry for chiming in so late. I digress to put in a vote of confidence for food-weighing doctors and knuckle-dragging schmos on v.com.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 08:30 PM
From Amanda SouthernNeil - the doctors at my university clinic pass them out to all the music students almost like they're candy. I've never taken them, but it's apparently pretty easy for people around here to get prescriptions for them.
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 08:30 PM
From Stephen BrivatiGreetings,
Posted on January 4, 2007 at 10:51 PM
and then they pass them outt o their friends.
That was beginning to happen 25 years ago when I was at university, too,
From Ryan BeauchampAl ku – I am sorry for being vague for your un-musician background (for just being a fan and a relative of a musician) ;)
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 04:37 PM
I didn’t think I needed to give exact details about my life and background why the thought of Beta Blockers crossed my mind, since that is a personal situation for me…. Just giving the thought I’m afraid of a possible addiction - similar to diet pills and melatonin or any drugs in particular. I have noticed that I tend to shake and get nervous during performances occasionally. I’ve been playing for about 9 years and just heard about Beta Blockers and I wanted to gather personal experiences, stories, and so on from fellow musicians from around the world… I guess
Kristian – I agree… maybe sometimes I push myself too much with my repertoire to make me nervous… as that goes for any student and/or musician. That’s one of the issues I’m weighing if I ever choose to see my doctor about Beta Blockers and if I really need them.
I’m really afraid of a dependency. E.g. I have a huge solo performance and I’m preparing myself to perform on the day of the performance… and I realize my bottle of Beta Blockers is empty and I go off and become berserk and have a withdraw symptoms and sacrifice my dependency of the medication for my performance.
Pieter – Your statement made me laugh, “If you want to be a performer, you have to learn to deal with it. It's been tempting for me to use them, many times in the past but I resist.” When I first thought of what Beta Blockers were a few months ago, the concept, and what they do for you that is exactly what I said! I still agree with that and think I may not be a true musician to deal with concepts of performing and occasional stress.
Jude – For my friends who use Beta Blockers they say the same thing about performance anxiety, nerve racking piece, calming nerves, etc. I’m afraid that I may mistake it for a miracle drug to turn me into the next Perlman or something… and that’s been a lingering thought for me, too.
From Christina WilkeLike any drugs, there are going to be side effects. Some people do have problems with their heartbeat going irregular or beating too fast/too slow. When used in combination with another medication, such as Benadryl, you can get a very dangerous combination.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 04:47 PM
That being said, I feel that it is a bit high-minded to not only rule out beta blockers but to even look down on those who have used them. My father uses them frequently- he has uncontrollable stage fright, no matter what he plays (or now conducts). Although he has learned to conduct without them, was it fair to say, "Well, then he shouldn't have been playing the solo part in Mahler 5 (trumpet player) because he was too nervous and unprepared!" I happened to have heard that performance and it was one of the most moving performances of my life- he nailed every note of it. A beta blocker doesn't automatically make him prepared- he was prepared before he took the pill, it just helped him cope with the physical and mental aspect of nerves.
I have also taken beta blockers- I will admit that they were for my undergraduate auditions. They worked wonders for me- I was able to walk into a room, still feel anxious and nervous, but it took away my sweaty shaky hands. I played all of those auditions very well. I have not taken beta blockers since that time and I do not plan on using them for my graduate school auditions. It's not because of a bad experience, which some people have mentioned, but instead because I have gotten more performance opportunities and I am no longer as nervous. When I auditioned for conservatories, I had never given a full length recital and I had never played a concerto in front of anyone besides my father, mother, teacher, and several pianists. I was terrified so my family and I made the decision to take me to a doctor. It worked wonders then, but I'm past them.
In the end, I understand your worries about dependency. Inderol and other beta blockers and suppressants are not considered to be "addictive" clinically. You do not form a chemical dependence on the pills. However, your concern over having a performance and realizing you're out of them is real. Mentally, you can form a strong bond with the pills. It would be like getting to a performance and not having your lucky coin or something, only about 100 times more terrifying. You'll likely be more nervous and upset because of the thought of playing off of them. It's not because you're "dependent" on what it does to you, it's that your mind thinks you are. This only occurs if you use them ALL the time for performances. My guess is that, for most people, if they used them only for the occasional audition or performance and not in every lesson and studio class they have, then it won't be as noticable.
I just plead that people stop looking down so harshly on them. If you don't want to use them and feel the medical risks are too high, then voice that opinion. It's certainly quite valid. But don't assume that "us people" only use them because we are not prepared. I can assure you that I have NEVER walked into an audition unprepared, especially those four times I used Inderol. I passed those auditions and I'm a better musician for it.
From Pamela SchulzI was prescribed a beta-blocker (Atenolol) for high blood pressure. I found that it made me feel REALLY tired, and my right arm felt like it weighed 50 lbs., and it hindered my playing.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 05:17 PM
There are a BUNCH of warnings about this stuff - you have to watch what you combine it with, it is dangerous if you're pregnant or planning on getting pregnant, and you have to taper it if you're going off of it, otherwise you'll get a huge rebound effect.
I went on an ACE-inhibitor instead (I have to - I have dangerously high blood pressure).
Each to his/her own...
From al kuryan, hope you understand i was not trying to get to know you too well:) but simply want to get a sense if the questioner was serious because this issue with beta blockers is quite serious and if misinterpreted the wrong way, harm can be done. overall, i think this board has provided you with a rather balanced view of some facts, some experiences and some, shall i say, opinions. i hope you can tell what is what and find a solution for yourself because every other person's suggestion, however well meaning, may apply differently on you. and, above all, do not try any prescribed med until/unless you get a thorough physical examination by a physician. very rarely, there are individuals walking around with latent asymtomatic cardiac anormalies and all it takes is one drug to slow the heart down more to get them into trouble.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 05:41 PM
christina, not trying to get to know you too well either, but you not only are good with numbers but also wise beyond the years. way too many people with unresolved issues (especially on the mental health side because of the stigma) have not received enough medical attention/treatment and end up hurting themselves and others, all in the name of hanging in there to tough it out. it is as wrong for a person to take meds when he does not need it as a person who does not take meds when he needs it. unfortunately, online forum is not a good place to make that distinction.
From michelle biscoveanuRyan, I am physician and I can tell you that beta blockers are benign drugs- and if you have anxiety performance there is no danger in taking them periodicaly, as needed- there is no physical dependence or addiction that goes with taking them. What I wrote in my previous post is that you would need a doctor to prescibe the right kind- because Atenolol is a selective beta blocker- working mostly on the heart/blood pressure, where the non-selective ones are better for stage fright- because they block tremmors and perspiration as well.The doses prescribed for stage fright are also lower than the cardiovascular doses. Talk to your doctor, that's all. Michelle
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 06:00 PM
From Amanda SouthernMy roommate's doctor wouldn't give her beta blockers for stage fright because her blood pressure is very low, and the doctor told her it would kill her. So, was she right? I don't think she'd say that without any good reason. I can't believe they're totally benign if a doctor said that. But I don't know, maybe she didn't really know, because I've definitely known plenty of doctors to be wrong.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 06:55 PM
From Christina WilkeOne thing is certain: it's better to trust the doctors than not. No doctor is 100% right and I don't know if your friend taking beta blockers would kill her with her low blood pressure, but it's better to be safe than sorry. I have relatively low blood pressure so when I took beta blockers I took them for half of my body weight (at the time I was tiny so I took a dosage for someone at about 60 lbs instead of my full weight). The doctor felt any more would have slowed down my system and would have negatively effected my performance.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 07:41 PM
Another question for those out there- who has tried the "banana" method? A lot of the same chemicals are in bananas and I have friends who swear by them (one ate 6 bananas the day he played a solo with our orchestra!) How have you found them to work? I unfortunately detest the smell, taste, and texture of bananas... so I don't have any experience with them.
From Albert JusticeDoctors are simply the middle step between your instinct and your body--they are not perfect. The fact that this is a question is the answer.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 07:47 PM
From Pieter ViljoenI think the best thing to do is what all the golfers are doing now. They're getting into good shape, doing a lot of cardiovascular exercise so they can lower their resting heartrates. They still get nervous, but the lower your resting heart rate, the better you can cope with the nerves.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 08:43 PM
From Peter OuyangActually, there are professional golfers who use beta blockers. :^)
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 09:03 PM
From Michael SchallockI do not mean to comment either positively or negatively about the B blockers but I would like to comment.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 09:33 PM
There is always a risk/benefit ratio to taking any drug. There is always something bad that has to be weighed against the positive reason for taking the drug.
The B blockers can certainly be used carefully, safely. They are not addicting.
But, I think a more important question is for an individual to decide whether s/he really wants or needs to enhance their performance by taking a drug. I do not believe that it is a simple question. There is no clear distinction between drinking coffee for the caffeine to make it through a long opera, a banana for whatever substances it may contain, an alcoholic drink to calm one's nerves, beta blockers to contol heart rate and tremors or steroids to enhance muscle mass. Where you draw the line is a matter of personal decision, assuming the legalities are observed. You must examine your personal philosophy, understand the true risk/benefit relationship and make your choice. I think that the decision is far more complex than simply the issue of safety and efficacy.
From Christina WilkeWell said Michael. I also agree with Pieter- getting into shape physically and mentally will help you prepare immensely. It may not be enough for everyone, but I find it always works for me.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 10:11 PM
From Pieter ViljoenI'm trying to get into good shape for more than just performance reasons of course, but I know it will help a lot.
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 11:43 PM
I don't take beta blockers for the same reasons I don't drink if I'm upset or depressed, and I avoid any other of life's little pleasures as well at times like those, because we should be able to deal with unpleasantness all by ourselves. Crutches are bad.
From Terez MertesMaura wrote:
Posted on January 6, 2007 at 12:20 AM
>...sometimes when you go backstage you see everyone is gnawing on bananas to calm their nerves.
This is a really fun image.
This is a really fun thread to read, as well. To bad no one here ever has an opinion, though.
From Terez Mertes>I don't ... for the same reasons I don't drink if I'm upset or depressed, and I avoid any other of life's little pleasures as well at times like those, because we should be able to deal with unpleasantness all by ourselves.
Posted on January 6, 2007 at 12:22 AM
Well, damn. That just about cuts out everything fun for me almost all the time. That's it. I'm off to hang myself. But first... a drink. Wait - no, I can't.... AUGH!
Pieter, honey, I'm crushed. Where is the kick-butt spitfire we all know and love? You're sounding so... sensible.. That's it, I'm coming over with a bottle of red. Consider yourself warned.
From Terez MertesOh dear. Oh dear. It has just dawned on me that I have been the unwitting victim of Pieter's subtle sarcasm.
Posted on January 6, 2007 at 12:30 AM
Oops. That's it. Now I'm REALLY off to drink. Either that or go take some beta blockers.
From Maura GeretyTry a banana instead.
Posted on January 6, 2007 at 12:50 AM
From Pieter Viljoenbeta blockers aren't any fun anyways.
Posted on January 6, 2007 at 01:57 AM
From Terez MertesOh, Maura, I love it. I'm cackling away. (Okay, I confess, I dipped into the wine. Tried Pieter's abstinence method and I lasted two minutes and thirty seconds. )
Posted on January 6, 2007 at 04:46 AM
Pieter, now I want to know. I need to know. Sarcasm or serious? Are you going to leave me hanging like this? Would you just be more obvious, please? Is this the new, reformed Pieter Viljoen of 2007 that we're seeing here? Is it Ilya's influence? Ilya's absence? Ilya's vodka?
From Pieter Viljoenwell... if last night was any indication............
Posted on January 6, 2007 at 10:37 PM
nothing has changed.
From Vivian GuoBeta Blocker sounds likes bio-chemistry or neurology stuff. Anyone wants to borrow my model kits? I've got two. :-)
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 01:07 AM
If you are talking about medicine, I take on this is: Don't do it! Try something instead, say meditation, taking deep breath or something you don't need to take in unnecessary chemicals.
Just me. I am wondering if a performer needs to take drug before performance, is that person in the right business at all?
From Vivian Guo"Doctors are simply the middle step between your instinct and your body--they are not perfect. The fact that this is a question is the answer."
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 01:05 AM
Well said, Al. If doctors are all perfect, there won't be any incentive for medical malpractice lawsuit. That is, you will find no lawyer in that field.
From Pieter ViljoenVivian, there is an oversupply in the market for malpractice suits. Many of them are probably frivolous.
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 01:51 AM
From Vivian GuoPieter,
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 06:28 PM
You might be right. But oftentime problems are not always black-and-white. These days (in the US) the potential of getting sued is so high that a lot of doctors rely on tests or machines for easy defense. However, tests and machines often cannot detect hidden symptoms, and thus harm can be done to a patient because of the delay in discovery, not because of the physician's ability or medical knowledge. A vicious circle if I may.
In any event, I am very doubtful that any drugs would not have effect in human physiology if "necessary and sufficient" condition is met. Therefore, in my opinion, not taking a long-term effect into consideration, for a physician, is rather heckless.
From Pieter ViljoenVivian,
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 05:34 AM
All I can tell you is that doctors in my father's field pay $80,000 a year in malpractice. Doctors in the states often pay more than double. Most of them, have never been sued. I find that pretty alarming.
In any case, I agree that you shouldn't take something just because it is prescribed to you. It's good to get a second opinion from another doctor.
From Vivian GuoPieter,
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 06:37 AM
Doctors certainly have my sympathy on this one. Attorneys certainly know how and who to "rob" with a license. Medical malprace and personal injuries are the easy targets. Sounds like a joke, but it is a sad truth.
From Pauline LernerWe’ve discussed this issue on v.com many times. I suggest that you use the “Search” feature at the top of each page to find our discussions. Some of the discussions were heated, and all of them were interesting and helpful.
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 07:44 AM
I will repost some of my earlier comments here. I worked as a biochemist for many years, and I have performed some studies on propranolol and reviewed many others.
I just did a Google search on "beta blocker performance anxiety," and I found a very good discussion of the subject here.
Beta blockers, like all drugs, have side effects. Most musicians who use beta blockers take relatively small doses and only take them before performances or auditions, so they are less likely to have adverse reactions than people who take them chronically. However, if you have asthma or take potassium supplements, it would be prudent to avoid taking beta blockers.
From Pauline LernerHere's the link http://www.ethanwiner.com/BetaBlox.html
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 07:45 AM
From al kubeta block the urge to take beta blocker if you do not need it, but by all means take it if indicated.
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 01:06 PM
on another note, what do you think is the number one reason for doctors getting sued? no, not gross medical negligence... not even because of ambulance chasers either.
one more hint...it is the same reason violinists should be sued if there is such a thing!
From Jim W. MillerOne time I threatened to sue a doctor. I was renting an apartment from him and my lease ended and I said I would be out by some date. I got lazy and wanted to stay an extra week. He came over and had a fit that I was still there. I told him it was because I had slipped on the ice on his walkway and was laid up for a few days. I didn't actually threaten to sue him, but he got the message. I stayed the extra week. For free. Coulda stayed a month. He said "Yeah?" I said "Oh yeah" And then he was so nice, Lawd he was lovey-dovey.
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 02:34 PM
From Vivian Guo"Discussions get heated when people view taking or not taking medications as a moral issue."
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 08:59 PM
Moral issue? Oh, no. Not again! That's a heack of heavy/powerful candy I must say.
From Vivian Guo"From Ryan Beauchamp
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 09:00 PM
Posted on January 5, 2007 at 9:37 AM (MST)
Al ku – I am sorry for being vague for your un-musician background (for just being a fan and a relative of a musician) ;)"
Al Ku plays the violin very well, especially for a self-taught. Just amazing. He was trying to be modest. Don't let that fool you. Go after him, I meant. :-)
25 years ago while you were in college? Hoohoo, you just spilled the beans...Many math persons on this forum you see. :-)
From al kuvivian, you realize this is violinist.com, right?:)
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 10:57 PM
i am much better at screaming and yelling when violin was played around me but not by me:). i have come a long way of short distance having the first lesson given by a 3 year old and practicing only when i have to (to keep up, for self esteem may be, however little is left)....it shows and it sucks:(
to some people, like me, listening to violin playing by real players is so much more satisfying and less aggravating:)
From Terez MertesPauline - thanks for your informative and eloquent post.
Posted on January 7, 2007 at 11:07 PM
From Stephen BrivatiGreetings,
Posted on January 8, 2007 at 12:33 AM
Vivian, I went to college very early,
From Vivian Guo"vivian, you realize this is violinist.com, right?:)"
Posted on January 8, 2007 at 08:35 AM
Oh yeah, of course, Al! I thought I was a "violinist". Muhahahahahhaha....A twinkle player. :-)
From Vince V.Ryan, we're not pressuring you to use them. You sound like it would be a gloss on your reputation among peers.
Posted on January 8, 2007 at 09:35 AM
I think the simplest answer is, don't take them.
From Andrew SordsA drink for anyone who can correctly label this reference: :)
Posted on January 9, 2007 at 02:14 AM
"Never, never, ever ever EVER never...never ever..."
From Christina WilkeWas that a Hilary Clinton quote? Because there is quite a funny Letterman (I think) clip of her talking about running for presidency... or shall I say, "never, never, never, ever, never, ever
Posted on January 9, 2007 at 03:59 AM
Do I get the drink?
From al kumore like bill talking about monica on TV:)
Posted on January 9, 2007 at 04:10 AM
From Christina WilkeI guess Hilary was quoting Bill talking about Monica. Now THAT is funny.
Posted on January 9, 2007 at 06:45 AM
From Andrew SordsNo Tina. It's an ENCORE reference :)
Posted on January 10, 2007 at 04:04 AM
From Maura GeretyLOL Andrew--I remember that. :) Somehow Mr. Cerone managed to take a very serious subject and make it very funny... :)
Posted on January 10, 2007 at 03:23 PM
From Christina WilkeMr. Cerone is the master at doing that- it's what he's such a good president for CIM.
Posted on January 10, 2007 at 03:55 PM
From Christina WilkeMr. Cerone is the master at doing that- it's why he's such a good president for CIM (amongst many other reasons!)
Posted on January 10, 2007 at 03:55 PM
From Maura GeretyIt was unintentional, though! He was trying his very hardest to be incredibly, severely, deadly serious, and we were all sitting there trying not to laugh because it just came across as melodramatic. :) (That was a weird summer in general though, something about the "group atmosphere" just seemed kind of "off", especially compared to the previous year.)
Posted on January 10, 2007 at 04:36 PM
From Stephen Brivati
Posted on April 21, 2009 at 10:00 AM
flagged above as I sincerely belive it to be dangerous.
Please don`t fool around with drugs or give anyone licence to hand them out indiscriminately.
From SAM MIHAILOFF
Posted on April 21, 2009 at 12:40 PM
Gee, back in the college days of yore, we all did a shot of tequila before the Beethoven Archduke performance...the cellist kept yelling ole during the scherzo.
From Laurie Niles
Posted on April 21, 2009 at 02:44 PM
Thanks, Buri, I deleted it.
From Stephen Brivati
Posted on April 21, 2009 at 08:13 PM
Sam did you ever experiment to get thr cellist to switch languages?
From Andrew HollandI know this is an old discussion, but I want to weigh in. Many people here are playing 'doctor' themselves in asserting that one shouldn't take beta blockers because they're dangerous, etc. I don't think that's any wiser than making a blanket statement that people SHOULD take beta blockers. Beta blockers have indeed been helpful to some people, including me, and I do feel that they should only be taken under a doctor's supervision if one does decide to use them.
Posted on April 23, 2009 at 05:03 AM
From Stephen Brivati
Posted on April 23, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Andrew, I`m very sorry to be so blunt but the statement you make about `many people` is incorrect, assuming you are referring to this thread. If you read all the postings on this thread there are actually only a couple of voices against taking them because they are dangerous `end of discussion.` This is objectively verifiable by making a mark on a memo pad everytime you come across that opinion voice
I wonder if you might have done what I often do , and often come to regret, which is read through just a few postings. In which case my recent post might seem alarmist and negative. However, that post only concerned an irresponsible and possibly illegal action through v.commie which Laurie removed before hopefully too many people read it.
You are quite right any discussion of the subject should be based on fact and the genuine experience of those who genuinly need them. Drugs only become a problem when dealt with in secrecy or from position of close mindedness.
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