How did the E.H. Roth labels look in the 1933-1945 era?

August 27, 2016 at 02:22 PM · So say, I came across a violin with this thread title on the label: It is a single label inside in bold capitalised print, no cursive or written year anywhere to be found and the paper itself is about the color of the Declaration of Independence.

Basically, is this the real-deal!?

How did the E.H. Roth labels look in the 1933-1945 era?

The instrument has a two-piece back and the f holes aren't painted. The top is thick and it looks much more aged than my 1972 Erlangen.

I'll have pictures eventually.

Replies (18)

August 27, 2016 at 04:49 PM · It should have Ernest Heinrich Roth Markneukirchen and a serial number stamped in the wood above the label, if not it might be suspect. Unless its before about 1925, it might not have a serial number and stamp.

August 27, 2016 at 07:26 PM · Whoops!

I thought my topic title was, "Made Under The Supervision Of Ernst Heinrich Roth".

That's the only label in the instrument and it has the number 20 etched in pencil in the other F Hole.

The instrument is even heavier than the Bubenreuth-Erlangen, so you know the tone is EVEN warmer! All ebony hardware and great flames throughout the wood. The top is tight spruce and Google searching that label leads me to a post that says it is a Roth 120R.

August 27, 2016 at 07:31 PM · You can contact Roth in Germany, they have a website and are still in business, for a small fee or even for free they will verify if you send pictures if your violin was genuine and if there is a serial number, what year it was made.

August 27, 2016 at 07:48 PM · It has no serial number! I have no idea what they would be able to find out from just a number 20.

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I'm gonna start uploading the rest:

August 27, 2016 at 08:00 PM · Send the pictures to Roth in Germany, but that doesn't look like any Roth label I have seen. It might be a cheaper line not made by the Roth factory but marketed by them.

August 27, 2016 at 08:20 PM · Maybe... But it sounds great and is well made. Anybody have any info? I'm off to the website now.

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And a sparkle to go out on.

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August 27, 2016 at 08:24 PM · It looks more like a 50s or 60s Roth than 30s, are you sure it says Germany and not W Germany?? The carving of the back of the scroll is cruder than the 20s and 30s Roths I have seen, but consistent with the post war Bubenreuth Erlangen instruments

August 27, 2016 at 08:36 PM · It only has Germany on the label. The scroll is a little different, and the top and back are both a little bit thicker than the '72.

Here's some side-by-side photos:

August 27, 2016 at 09:06 PM · Due to the creases, wrinkling and blistering, and the tear across the "A" in "Antonius" and the "d" in "under," and the misalignment of the label on either side of that tear, the label sure gives a strong impression of having been lifted out of something else and reapplied in your instrument. Original labels just don't look like that, don't you think? How can you explain those things by any other reason than label tampering, Brian?

(Post edited)

August 27, 2016 at 09:35 PM · IDK Mark, 70 year olds have wrinkles and this thing looks & quacks like a duck.

Check out the above images: Red is the one we're questioning.

August 27, 2016 at 10:19 PM · It does look like a Roth but I couldn't rule out it being good quality counterfeit, the best way to know for sure is contact the Roth website. Send the same pictures.

August 27, 2016 at 11:19 PM · Done and Done. I just have to wait however many more hours for a reply.

The 1972 is dark, resonant, and projects astoundingly.

The old red one sounds even darker and warmer, and it's heavy!

August 28, 2016 at 05:00 AM · I have one forum post saying its any entry level Roth c. 1920. If that is true, then the shop instruments haven't changed drastically in over 50 years! The newer one has peg bushings+lockers and thinner wood but that's about it.

August 29, 2016 at 02:19 PM · Okay so I've gotten a reply email:

Dear Mr. Morrow,

Thank you for your mail. These are original Ernst Heinrich Roth I instrument.

After the pictues to judge it is genuine.

This instrument was made by the Ernst Heinrich Roth I in his workshop 1925

Look at the attachment pictures.

We can see, that this instrument with the label is genuine and it is a

Model No. 120-R. It is today model 51/120-R

It was made 1925 here in Markneukirchen.

The current new price, please refer to our Web site.

and look under the button: Price list

August 29, 2016 at 05:34 PM · Well, good news, that being the case, a 1925 120R should be worth close to $7000US or more??, good find.

August 30, 2016 at 11:05 PM · Man-o-man, that is good to know..!

The higher models have to be some serious gems.

I see Roths on ebay auctions selling from $800 to just under $2000, but these are Erlangens or old Cremonas.

IDK how Markneukirchens sell for so much if ebay is around, but auction sales have got to be from people who really, really need the cash.

I almost want to open up a shop too now, lol.

August 31, 2016 at 02:23 AM · By $7000 I meant full retail in a store, the Erlangen ones are the ones you see going cheaper on ebay, or fakes, and the later the date, the less they're worth 1950s are worth about twice as much as 1980s for instance.

There are no "Cremonas" the early ones, pre 1945 were made in Markneukirchen, 1920s ones are worth a bit more than 1930s ones, on average of course and comparing the same models. Roths come in a lot of different models, and the top models are worth about twice as much as the cheapest models.

August 31, 2016 at 02:30 AM · PS a lot of the supposed EH Roths on ebay going cheap are actually Scherl and Roth's or Roth shop adjusted, nothing to do with EH Roth at all.

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