I am the Grand student.......

March 12, 2012 at 03:37 AM · Last week, I started lessons from a local violinist who is the concertmaster of 4 orchestras, including one 3,000+ miles away. His name is Michael Emery, and he was the student of one of the greatest American violinist of the 20th century, Erick Friedman. So far I really like him, and hopefully he will be able to take my training to the next level! He has started me on the Kayser etude book, as well as Hrimaly's scale book.

On to bigger and better things!

Replies (20)

March 12, 2012 at 03:57 AM · Greetings,

I agree with you about Friedman. His recordings should be much better known. The version I hgave of his Franck sonata is one of my treasured possessions. Incidentally, beware of judging his playing from the Heifetz masterclass clips. He does not come across as the great artist he became.

Cheers,

Buri

March 12, 2012 at 01:08 PM · I am a great grand student of Eugene Ysaye via three separate students: Leon Sametini, Joseph Gingold and Harold Hess. My teachers are all unknowns by comparison. Harold Hess had an obscure pedagogical career but the other two grand teachers were famous.

I am afraid though that I demonstrate the economic necessity of pedagogy much more than the artistic potential of teaching.

March 12, 2012 at 02:06 PM · It just so happens that I worked out my violin family tree a few months ago and posted it as a facebook note. Here you go (I apologize for the length):

Generation 1

Eric Brahinsky (1956– ) studied with Henry Brahinsky, Jacinto Gimbernard, Harry Goshkowitz, Samuel Schwartz, Willa Howells, Norma Lewis Davidson, Kenneth Sarch, and Fredell Lack. (N.B.: I have included only those teachers with whom I had regular private lessons for at least one year.)

Generation 2

Henry Brahinsky (1917–2001) studied with Joseph Kneer, Russell Webber, and Emanuel Wishnow.

Norma Lewis Davidson (1929–2012) studied with unknown.

Jacinto Gimbernard (1931– ) studied with Willy Kleimberg and Ernest Leroux.

Harry Goshkowitz (1912–1989) studied with unknown.

Willa Howells (1931– ) studied with Rafael Druian.

Fredell Lack (1922– ) studied with Tosca Berger Kramer, Josephine Boudreaux, Louis Persinger, and Ivan Galamian.

Kenneth Sarch (1941– ) studied with Roman Totenberg, Robert Koff, Dorothy DeLay, and Ivan Galamian.

Samuel Schwartz (1917–2000) studied with unknown.

Generation 3

Josephine Boudreaux (1898–1993) studied with Emil Lindenburg, Maurice Hewitt, Lucien Capet, Jenö Hubay, and Otakar Sevcík.

Dorothy DeLay (1917–2002) studied with Raymond Cerf, Louis Persinger, and Ivan Galamian.

Rafael Druian (1922–2002) studied with Amadeo Roldán, Lea Luboshutz, and Efrem Zimbalist.

Ivan Galamian (1903–1981) studied with Konstantin Mostras and Lucien Capet.

Willy Kleimberg (?–?) studied with unknown.

Joseph Kneer (1858–1929) studied with unknown.

Robert Koff (1919–2005) studied with unknown.

Tosca Berger Kramer (1903–1976) studied with Willy Hess and Eugène Ysaÿe.

Ernest Leroux (?–?) studied with unknown.

Louis Persinger (1887–1966) studied with Eugène Ysaÿe.

Roman Totenberg (1911– ) studied with Mieczyslaw Michalowicz, Carl Flesch, and George Enescu.

Russell Webber (1900–1963) studied with unknown.

Emanuel Wishnow (1910–1994) studied with August Molzer.

Generation 4

Lucien Capet (1873–1928) studied with Jean Pierre Maurin.

Raymond Cerf (1901–1978) studied with Eugène Ysaÿe.

George Enescu (1881–1955) studied with Joseph Hellmesberger, Jr. and Sigismund Bachrich.

Carl Flesch (1873–1944) studied with Jakob Grün.

Ivan Galamian - see Generation 3

Willy Hess (1859–1939) studied with Joseph Joachim.

Maurice Hewitt (1884–1971) studied with unknown.

Jenö Hubay (1858–1937) studied with Joseph Joachim and Henri Vieuxtemps.

Emil Lindenburg (1850–1919) studied with unknown.

Lea Luboshutz (1885?–1965) studied with Saul Luboshutz and Emil Mlynarski.

Mieczyslaw Michalowicz (1872-19??) studied with Stanislaus Barcewicz and Leopold Auer.

August Molzer (1881–1967) studied with Otakar Sevcík.

Konstantin Mostras (1886–1965) studied with Boris Sibor and Leopold Auer.

Louis Persinger - see Generation 3

Amadeo Roldán (1900–1939) studied with unknown.

Otakar Sevcík (1852–1934) studied with Antonín Bennewitz.

Eugène Ysaÿe (1858–1931) studied with Joseph Lambert Massart, Henryk Wieniawski, and Henri Vieuxtemps.

Efrem Zimbalist (1890–1985) studied with Aron Zimbalist and Leopold Auer.

Generation 5

Leopold Auer (1845–1930) studied with David Ridley-Kohné and Joseph Joachim.

Sigismund Bachrich (1841–1913) studied with Joseph Böhm.

Stanislaus Barcewicz (1858–1929) studied with Apolinary Katski, Ferdinand Laub, and Jan Hrímaly.

Antonín Bennewitz (1833–1926) studied with Moritz Mildner.

Jakob Grün (1837–1916) studied with Gustav Ellinger, Moritz Hauptmann, and Joseph Böhm.

Joseph Hellmesberger, Jr. (1855–1907) studied with Joseph Hellmesberger, Sr.

Joseph Joachim (1831–1907) studied with Stanislaus Serwaczynski, Miska Hauser, Georg Hellmesberger, Sr., Joseph Böhm, and Ferdinand David.

Saul Luboshutz (?–1925) studied with unknown.

Joseph Lambert Massart (1811–1892) studied with Rodolphe Kreutzer.

Jean Pierre Maurin (1822–1894) studied with unknown.

Emil Mlynarski (1870–1935) studied with Leopold Auer.

Otakar Sevcík - see Generation 4

Boris Sibor (1880–1961) studied with Leopold Auer.

Henri Vieuxtemps (1820–1881) studied with Charles Auguste de Bériot.

Henryk Wieniawski (1835–1880) studied with Joseph Lambert Massart.

Eugène Ysaÿe - see Generation 4

Aron Zimbalist (?–?) studied with unknown.

Generation 6

Leopold Auer - see Generation 5

Joseph Böhm (1795–1876) studied with Pierre Rode.

Ferdinand David (1810–1873) studied with Louis Spohr and Moritz Hauptmann.

Charles Auguste de Bériot (1802–1870) studied with Jean-Francois Tiby and Pierre Baillot.

Gustav Ellinger (1811–1898) studied with unknown.

Moritz Hauptmann (1792–1868) studied with -?- Scholz and Louis Spohr.

Miska Hauser (1822–1887) studied with Josef Matalay, Joseph Böhm, and Josef Mayseder.

Georg Hellmesberger, Sr. (1800–1873) studied with Joseph Böhm.

Joseph Hellmesberger Sr. (1828–1893) studied with Georg Hellmesberger, Sr.

Jan Hrímaly (1844–1915) studied with Vojtech Hrímaly, Jr. and Moritz Mildner.

Joseph Joachim - see Generation 5

Apolinary Katski (1825–1879) studied with Karol Katski.

David Ridley-Kohné (1812–1892) studied with unknown.

Rodolphe Kreutzer (1766–1831) studied with Anton Stamitz.

Ferdinand Laub (1832–1875) studied with Erasmus Laub and Moritz Mildner.

Joseph Lambert Massart - see Generation 5

Moritz Mildner (1812–1865) studied with Friedrich Wilhelm Pixis.

Stanislaus Serwaczynski (1791–1859) studied with Michal Serwaczynski.

Generation 7

Pierre Baillot (1771–1842) studied with Giovanni Battista Viotti.

Joseph Böhm - see Generation 6

Moritz Hauptmann - see Generation 6

Georg Hellmesberger, Sr. - see Generation 6

Vojtech Hrímaly, Jr. (1842–1908) studied with Moritz Mildner.

Karol Katski (1815–1867) studied with unknown.

Erasmus Laub (1794–1865) studied with unknown.

Josef Matalay (?–?) studied with unknown.

Josef Mayseder (1789–1863) studied with Paul Wranitzky and Ignaz Schuppanzigh.

Moritz Mildner - see Generation 6

Friedrich Wilhelm Pixis (1786–1842) studied with Giovanni Battista Viotti.

Pierre Rode (1774–1830) studied with Giovanni Battista Viotti.

-?- Scholz (?–?) studied with unknown.

Michal Serwaczynski (?–?) studied with unknown.

Louis Spohr (1784–1859) studied with Franz Eck.

Anton Stamitz (1750?–1809?) studied with Johann Stamitz and Christian Cannabich.

Jean-Francois Tiby (?–?) studied with Giovanni Battista Viotti.

Generation 8

Christian Cannabich (1731–1798) studied with Johann Stamitz.

Franz Eck (1774–1809) studied with Friedrich Johann Eck.

Moritz Mildner - see Generation 6

Ignaz Schuppanzigh (1776–1830) studied with unknown.

Johann Stamitz (1717–1757) studied with unknown.

Giovanni Battista Viotti (1755–1824) studied with Gaetano Pugnani.

Paul Wranitzky (1756–1808) studied with unknown.

Generation 9

Friedrich Johann Eck (1767–1838) studied with Christian Danner.

Gaetano Pugnani (1731–1798) studied with Giovanni Battista Somis and Giuseppe Tartini.

Johann Stamitz - see Generation 8

Generation 10

Christian Danner (1757–1813) studied with Christian Cannabich.

Giovanni Battista Somis (1686–1763) studied with Arcangelo Corelli.

Giuseppe Tartini (1692–1770) studied with unknown.

Generation 11

Christian Cannabich - see Generation 8

Arcangelo Corelli (1653–1713) studied with Giovanni Battista Bassani.

Generation 12

Giovanni Battista Bassani (c. 1650–1716) studied with Daniele Castrovillari and Giovanni Legrenzi.

Generation 13

Daniele Castrovillari (?–?) studied with unknown.

Giovanni Legrenzi (1626–1690) studied with Giovanni Maria Legrenzi.

Generation 14

Giovanni Maria Legrenzi (?–?) studied with unknown.

March 12, 2012 at 05:33 PM · I'm the grandstudent of mauricio fuks and lewis grinhauz...

March 12, 2012 at 07:45 PM · Pull the other one ...

March 12, 2012 at 09:20 PM · My violin teacher was taught by Shin'ichi Suzuki in Japan. Out of interest, a few months ago I worked out a simple lineage of who-was-taught-by-whom:

Jane Harbour

Shin'ichi Suzuki

Karl Klingler

Josef Joachim*

Josef Bohm

Pierre Rode

Giovanni Battista Viotti (1755-1824)

Pugnani** (1731-1798)

Somis (1686-1763)

Corelli (1651-1713)

*Joachim was the first President of Bristol Music Club, of which I am a member.

**It seems that Pugnani was also taught by Tartini, who in turn was taught in a Franciscan Friary.

Preceding Corelli there is a possible string of teachers:

Giovanni Battista Bassani 1657-1716

Giovanni Battista Vitali 1632-1692

Maurizio Cazzati (1616-1678)

However, I found it difficult to research reliable sources before Corelli.

Someone else I know was taught by Frederick Grinke. Grinke's lineage appears to be:

Fredericke Grinke (1911-1987)

John Waterhouse (1877-1970)

Emile Sauret (1852-1920)

Henri Vieuxtemps (1820-1881)

Charles Beriot (1802-1870)

Jean-Francois Tiby (n.d.)

Giovanni Battista Viotti (1755-1824),

and Viotti takes us back to Corelli.

March 12, 2012 at 10:46 PM · does anybody on this site do any practice?;)

Burp

March 13, 2012 at 01:38 AM · I discovered the "violin family tree" idea through Rachel Barton Pine's videos, where she talks about her teachers, and the teachers of their teachers, etc. Then I went on to do my own violin family tree, and I discovered that Galamian is my great great grandfather! Right know I study with Débora Henz, who studied with Hella Frank, who studied with Marcello Guerchfeld, who studied with Ivan Galamian! It was such a big surprise for me!

March 13, 2012 at 02:06 AM · There is an automated family tree for neuroscientists - 'NeuroTree' - online you entre your own info and the names of teachers and students and it automatically links the trees. thus, I can trace my lineage back to the 1500s! Several close relatives have Nobels...

Perhaps someone could do the same thing for musicians? The software is allready there...

March 13, 2012 at 02:39 AM · Gosh! I had no idea I'd get soooooo in depth with that! I just realized that my violin family tree goes back to Corelli! That's just amazing! But I think that many many people will find they back to him. I mean, one teacher can have several students, and those students will have several students each, and so on!

March 13, 2012 at 02:40 AM · That's a neat idea, actually. We have no way of knowing the horizontal relationships (cousins?).

Who your teacher is definitely has an effect on your playing so it could be fun to have something like this for both violinist.com and facebook.

March 13, 2012 at 08:10 PM · In response to Buri's question about practice:

The school I was brought up in includes a tradition of rather a lot of practice.

My present teacher discourages practicing per se(!). She is more in favour of an experimental approach to technical difficulties. "What can I do differently to get the sound (etc) I want?" as opposed to "I still cannot play this. I need to practice more!"

I appreciate this way of thinking. It is both supportive and creative. But often I can think of no better answer to the new question than "do this exercise a couple of times, and again tomorrow".

Bart

March 13, 2012 at 09:16 PM · Someone else I know was taught by Frederick Grinke. Grinke's lineage appears to be:

Fredericke Grinke (1911-1987)

John Waterhouse (1877-1970)

Emile Sauret (1852-1920)

Henri Vieuxtemps (1820-1881)

Charles Beriot (1802-1870)

Jean-Francois Tiby (n.d.)

Giovanni Battista Viotti (1755-1824),

and Viotti takes us back to Corelli.

I was in fact a pupil of Frederick Grinke for three years. But I know Grinke was a pupil of Carl Flesch. So where does Flesch come in?

March 13, 2012 at 10:12 PM · I would not be very surprised if most or all of us were related to Corelli. Let's say, for simplicity's sake, that everyone has four teachers. Then, going backwards in the pedigree, the number of people involved goes like 1, 5, 21, 85, 341, 1365, 5461, 21845, 87381, 349525, 1398101, in only 10 generations.

There must be a lot of overlap, and after a certain point everyone is related to everyone else.

March 14, 2012 at 03:08 AM · so, like, who is the violinists Eve?

March 14, 2012 at 09:31 PM · We don't talk about her because she was such a viol person.

March 15, 2012 at 12:22 AM · Quoth: does anybody on this site do any practice?

I do. That's why I'm here only intermittently. Gotta take a break sometime, don'cha know...

March 15, 2012 at 12:49 AM · saw, saw, saw saw - who said anything - saw, saw, saw - about stopping - saw saw - while V.comming? - saw, saw, squeek..

March 15, 2012 at 08:36 AM · @Elise: why, Mrs. Corelli, of course!

March 16, 2012 at 02:10 PM · This is a picture of my violin teacher : please click on :

http://youtu.be/85Ldfnq3l0U

Theodore Kruzich

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