Comments

Greetings,

isn`t Mr Kantor just the most brilliant muscian and teache r one could wish for? 

I would be interested in people`s opinions on one of the points he raised. I actually disagree rather strongly that the violin part should not be from memory in a piano violin sonata.I think the valid musical/philosophical point he is making is veyr much outweighted by the differnece in quality between playing form music and not  (except for a small minority of players). I belive ensemble is veyr much helped.  Just note in passing that te reat palyer sof yore did not use the music.  Also DeLay herself is cited in her biography as demanding her studnets prepare sonats from memory at leats for one Aspen .

Cheers,

Buri

Laurie, this was outstanding....and this was only day numero  uno

Buri, I understand the typos due to fast typing and all that, but don't you read your finished product? Can't you use the "EDIT" switch?

Thanks!!!

Anne-Marie

There is a famous story regarding playing for memory in chamber music (although roles are reversed). 

The late great Glenn Gould was playing a Beethoven trio with Zara Nelsova and Alexander Schneider.  He insisted on playing for memory, as he did with all music.  The others were playing with the music, and implored him to do the same.  He agreed to "use" the music.

At the concert, he brought the score on stage, placed it on the piano bench, and sat on it.

I'm inclined to agree with Kantor on this one.  If the music is a real impedent to being expressive and fluid, then a low stand with a score unlooked at can hardly interfere.

It does make a statement when one player, in chamber music, chooses not to use music while another does.  Beyond that, even the preferred standing point of many string players furthers obsures the pianists role in sonatas - standing directly in front of them (from the audience perspective).

I saw a great viola recital where the violist stood in the crook of the piano, and had excellent communication with the pianist, and didn't obscure her visually.  It did help that he had a big sound admittedly.

David

yes, but where did you eat??? :)

Thanks for the recap - i would have loved to be there this week.

Great job, as always, Laurie!

Mr. Kantor had great things to say, but I've forgotten them all in my jealousy that you got to hear an impromptu performance by America's greatest singer. Sorry, Frank, Bing, Nat, and everyone else -- Antonio Benedetto is the best there ever was or will be!

 

 Enjoyed, Laurie!

Thank you for the great report. wish we could have heard the Paganini.

Good job.

Greetings,

David,  I started using the crook of the piano a while back after watching Menuhin and reading his comment that he actually uses the paino as an amplifier.  

I agree about chmaber music such as piano trios and quartets using music.  But as far as sonatas are cocnerned I am not at all convinced.

Cheers,

Buri 

Great job, Laurie - makes me wish I were there in the audience too!

By the way, before further getting into the 'music or no music thing' , thanks a million Laurie for your chronicling of all this stuff.  I've enjoyed it passively over the years and never said thanks.  It has been really wonderful to read about, and instructive for me.

Hey Buri,

That is quite cool about using the open lid as a sounding board.  I had never heard of that before.  Gotta love Menuhin.

As for sonatas being set apart somehow from chamber music, I would think the line very thin.  The forms of almost all 4tets and trios are the same as duo sonatas (4 mvt. - and in most cases the piano providing at least one if not two equal lines to that of the violin/viola/cello etc. depending on the period).  And so, as far as partnership or prominence, the addition of a 3rd or 4th player does very little to change the formal elements of the sonata.

I wonder, and this is where my knowledge of Dorothy DeLay and her teaching motivation for memory work ends - might not she be considering an overarching strategy for her students in having them do Sonatas for memory?  I guess just another opportunity to hone the mental faculty and cut the chord from the music stand - which is the end goal for those who intend to be concerto soloists.  Or just to keep a consistent tone in forming the most comfortable and lucid performers - even if the risk is run of blurring the line b/w recital selections in which the pianist is clearly in the background with accompaniment, and those in which the pianist is equal, or should actually be predominant?

Honestly, I've yet to see even a single performance of a Mozart pno/vln sonata which I feel works (not on a violinistic level, or even a musical level), but on a 'who's more important when' level.  Same can kind of be said, in a way for Beethoven sometimes.

A great young cellist, Zuill Bailley just came through our school and did a masterclass with the cellists.  One of the students played a Beethoven sonata, and Zuill encouraged him to know when he should be wallpaper (in the room but not really noticed), and when he should be furniture - obvious.  I loved this class, and his point was so well taken that the 'wallpaper' moments are far more frequent than most string players would like to admit (myself included).

Anyhow, the choice to not use music, when your partner wishes to is I think coming close to pushing oneself into the forefront -before any sound is even made.

But on the other hand, one could likely make the 'for memory' thing work.  Playing for memory, yet standing in a way which doesn't completely obscure the pianist, accompanying the piano where appropriate, being willing to be invisible sometimes - both audibly and visibly.  I've just never seen this happen - still waiting (and if I'm honest, it rarely happens even if both parties use the music).